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April 30th, 2020 06:00

Docking Station for 5120 x 1440

G'Day all.

I have recently bought a Samsung CRG9 monitor and have it connected to a D6000 dock. The dock limits the resolution to 3840 x 1080 whereas if I connect either through HDMI 2 cables or DP 1.4 cables I can get the native 5120 x 1440. I assume the DP version out of the D6000 dock is not high enough.

I'm looking for a recommendation for a docking station that can handle the resolution, that isn't Thunderbolt dependent. I have two laptops I use, an 9380 XPS 13 and a Surface Book 2 (which doesn't have TB but has USB-C). Does the WD19 for example go that high? The specs look like it should, but I can't see anything that confirms it can.

Thanks for any information.

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April 30th, 2020 07:00

@defjam3  I forgot to add that if you're curious, I wrote an explainer post about the various operating modes of USB-C/TB3 with particular focus on their impact to possible display setups over here.  It was written before DisplayPort HBR3 over USB-C had arrived, and I can't update it now because it was posted prior to a forum software migration that Dell performed, which caused all pre-existing threads to become read-only, but basically the reason HBR3 can run 5120x1440 and USB 3.x simultaneously is because with an HBR3 system, having only 2 high speed lanes dedicated to video still gives enough bandwidth to run "dual QHD", i.e. 5120x1440.  That isn't the case when the system only supports HBR2.  That's also the reason the Display Resolution Table in the WD19's manual on support.dell.com is broken down by whether the source system supports HBR2 or HBR3.

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April 30th, 2020 07:00

@defjam3 

The D6000's limitation isn't from its DisplayPort outputs.  DisplayPort 1.2 is enough to run 4K 60 Hz, which is slightly more total pixel area and therefore bandwidth than 5120x1440 60 Hz.  The D6000's issue is that it uses DisplayLink "indirect display" technology for its video outputs rather than tapping into native GPU outputs like most docks do.  This is how the D6000 can offer the option to connect to systems over USB-A "regular USB", even though those ports have no native video output capability.  And it seems that the DisplayLink chipset in that dock won't run that particular resolution -- which is admittedly strange given that again, it can run 4K just fine.  But DisplayLink comes with a lot of potential drawbacks, which I discussed in detail in the post marked as the answer in this thread if you're curious.

Looking only at solutions driven natively by the GPU, the only way to run 5120x1440 without resorting to Thunderbolt while still using a dock that wants to run USB 3.x simultaneously would be to have a system and dock that both supported DisplayPort HBR3 over USB-C.  That's still pretty uncommon today because the only Intel GPUs today that support that are the ones built into the "Ice Lake" CPUs, which are some but not all of the Core 10th Gen CPUs, specifically the ones with model names ending with a "G" followed by a number.  The Core 10th Gen CPUs ending with a "U" or "H" use older GPUs that only support DisplayPort HBR2.  And even on systems that have discrete GPUs, most of them are wired such that the Intel GPU has direct control of the display outputs, with the discrete GPU operating as a render-only device, in which case you're still subject to the Intel GPU's limitations.

The WD19 supports DisplayPort HBR3 if the attached system supports it, but the XPS 13 9380 doesn't.  And it seems the Surface Book 2 doesn't either.  They both only support HBR2.

The only way to run that resolution over regular USB-C from a DisplayPort HBR2 system is to run the USB-C link such that all 4 of its high speed lanes are allocated to video, but when you do that, the max USB speed you can get is USB 2.0 -- which is why most USB-C docks don't run in that mode.  You could use a USB-C to DisplayPort cable to run that display, but then of course you lose docking functionality.  You could also look at this adapter that will do the same thing but also offers a USB-C power input so that you can at least get video and charging running from the same system port, but then you'd still need to make other arrangements for USB data, perhaps a USB 3.0 hub plugged into a different port on each system.

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April 30th, 2020 07:00

@defjam3  sorry for the triple post here, but if you decide to go with one of the options I mentioned above that would include using a USB 3.0 hub for data but you also rely on other functionality provided by your current docking station, such as audio and Ethernet, one way you can minimize cable sprawl would be to buy a USB 3.0 hub with plenty of ports and then plug a USB audio adapter like this one into it to cover audio and a USB Gigabit Ethernet adapter (there are lots of them) to cover Ethernet.  That way you'll minimize the number of cables you have to connect to your system even if you don't use a docking station.  And if you need another USB-C power source, I'm a fan of Anker, Aukey, and Nekteck for those.  The XPS 13 9380 only requires 45W.  I'm not sure what the Surface Book 2 requires, but Nekteck has a 90W adapter and I believe Aukey has or will soon have a 100W USB-C adapter.  Note however that most USB-C cables are only rated for USB PD up to 60W (sometimes written as 3 amps since USB PD's max voltage is 20V), so if you want more than that, you need to get a cable rated for up to 100W / 5 amps.  If you use a 60W cable, then that's all you'll ever get, even if the power source could otherwise provide more and the device being charged would otherwise draw more.

Hopefully this all helps!

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April 30th, 2020 15:00

@jphughan  seriously thank you for the detailed response, that was awesome. Made a lot of sense and I really appreciate the effort you put in. Gives me a few ideas what I can do. But seriously, appreciate the assistance. Thank you.

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April 30th, 2020 15:00

What I'm leaning towards is

  • On the XPS system, using the D6000 dock just without display, so that covers power, network and USB, and directly connecting a USB-C to DP cable. Two cables, but enough to work.
  • With the Surface Book 2 do the same, I have a Surface dock, which connects on a special port, to cover USB, power and network, and connecting through the USB-C to DP cable. I can't do the D6000 solution there as the Surface Book 2 only has one USB-C port.

Not perfect, but based on you very detailed explanation might be my only option.

Again, appreciate the detailed response @jphughan 

 

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April 30th, 2020 16:00

@defjam3  the D6000 can be connected to a system via USB-C or USB-A "regular USB", so you should be able to use that with the Surface that way if you want to, although you lose the ability to charge the system through the dock when you connect it to the system that way.  Otherwise, given that you've already got both docks, if desk space isn't a concern, then the only potential annoyance I can see with that setup is that any USB devices plugged into the D6000 will only be usable on the XPS 13 while the same will be true on the Surface Dock side for the Surface Book -- so for any USB devices you wanted to switch between the two systems, you'd have to disconnect them from one dock and reconnect them to another.  That's why I suggested a USB 3.0 hub that you could plug into the Surface Book 2 directly and plug into the XPS 13 using a simple USB-C to USB-A adapter dongle, and then you could plug all of the devices you wanted to share between those systems into that.  But again, if you've already got both docks and you think that won't be annoying from a usability standpoint, it would definitely work from a technical standpoint.  Good luck!

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April 30th, 2020 19:00

5120 x 1440  requires Dual display port and real gpu.  no such dock exists

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April 30th, 2020 19:00

5120x1440 is just dual QHD, and if you actually do the math, you will find that 5120x1440 is slightly fewer total pixels than 4K (3840x2160).  Since 4K 60 Hz can be run from a single DisplayPort 1.2 output, it is also possible to run 5120x1440 from a single DisplayPort 1.2 output.  You absolutely do not need dual DisplayPort.  If you don't believe me, the Dell U4919DW is a 5120x1440 display, and if you go check its manual on support.dell.com, you will find that it does not require dual DisplayPort connections.  It just requires a single DisplayPort 1.2 connection.  And any dock that can tap into a DisplayPort 1.2 interface can run 5120x1440 at 60 Hz.

There are users here who have gotten a U4919DW working at its native resolution and 60 Hz from just an XPS 13 9360, which just has an older Intel GPU.  Here is a link to one thread where this has been confirmed.  And that's possible because those GPUs can run 4K 60 Hz, which again is even more pixels than 5120x1440.  In addition, I'm sitting here writing on a Latitude 7480 that only has an Intel GPU, and it's connected to a QHD display (2560x1440) via USB-C to DP 1.2 cable, and that display is connected to a second QHD display via daisy chain.  2560x1440 x 2 displays is exactly the same number of pixels as a single 5120x1440 display, and my dual QHD setup is running perfectly from a single DisplayPort 1.2 connection coming from an Intel GPU.

You might have been thinking of actual 5K resolution, which is 5120x2880.  That is twice as many pixels as 5120x1440.  Some 5120x2880 displays use dual DisplayPort 1.2 connections, but 5120x2880 can also be run from a single DisplayPort 1.4 connection.  The WD19TB dock will run 5120x2880 from a single DisplayPort 1.4 output when paired with a system that will support it.  Actually the WD19TB can even run an 8K display at 30 Hz, and 8K 30 Hz requires more bandwidth than 5120x2880 60 Hz.  The new XPS 13 9300 uses Intel's new "Ice Lake" CPUs, such as the i5-1035G1.  And if you look at Intel's specs for that CPU here, you will find that its GPU can run up to 5120x3200.  In this case we were only talking about 5120x1440.


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May 1st, 2020 13:00

dual DisplayPort inputs to drive 5k panel at full resolution.  " 2560x1440 x 2 displays is exactly the same number of pixels as a single 5120x1440" is incorrect 2560 x 1440 x 2 = 5120 x 2880

  • Correct resolution not displayed: There are many causes of this issue.
    • Graphics adapter is not UHD+/UHD compliant: Graphics adapters connected to UHD+/UHD resolution (5120 x 2880 or 3840 x 2160) displays should be confirmed that they support the default resolutions of the new displays and have the required port connections of the new display.
    • Display is not correctly connected to graphics adapter: UHD displays have specific connection requirements such as DisplayPort 1.2 compliance or reduced HDMI refresh rate. UHD+ has those same requirements in addition to the Dual DisplayPort connections (Required or 5120 x 2880 resolution).

 

https://www.dell.com/support/article/en-us/sln297129/issues-when-using-uhd-4k-x-2k-and-uhd-5k-x-3k-displays?lang=en

 

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May 1st, 2020 16:00

 

  • 2560x1440 = 3,686,400 pixels
  • 2560x1440 x 2 displays = 7,372,800 pixels (i.e. 3,686,400 pixels x 2)
  • 5120x1440 = 7,372,800 pixels, exactly the same as 2560x1440 x 2, because 5120x1440 is the same pixel arrangement as two 2560x1440 displays side-by-side.  You are doubling your overall pixel width, but keeping pixel height the same.  Dell even calls their U4919DW 5120x1440 display "dual QHD" -- because that's exactly what it is.
  • 5120x2880 = 14,745,600 pixels, which is the equivalent of FOUR 1440p displays (2560x1440 x 4) because this type of display doubles both horizontal and vertical display area compared to 1440p.

The KB article you quoted only addresses 4K and 5120x2880 displays, the OP was only asking about 5120 x 1440.  But as I already said above, there are indeed some 5K displays that require dual DisplayPort 1.2 connections, such as Dell's own UP2715K 5K display.  But there are also 5K displays that can operate from a single DisplayPort 1.4 connection, at full resolution and at 60 Hz, even if Dell's KB article doesn't acknowledge them.  For example, the page for the Planar IX2790 here says, "The Planar IX2790 is a breathtaking bezel-free 27” IPS 5K (5120 x 2880) LCD monitor that fuses design and technology. Over a single DisplayPort cable, the Planar IX2790 delivers 77% more resolution than a 4K (3840 x 2160) monitor and four times the resolution of WQHD (2560 x 1440) monitor."

So 5K these days does NOT always require dual DisplayPort.  It will if the GPU and/or display only support DisplayPort 1.2, but it will NOT if both ends support DisplayPort 1.4.  


But in any case, 5120x1440, does not require dual DisplayPort 1.2.



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May 1st, 2020 17:00

https://www.dell.com/support/article/en-us/sln295089/issues-you-may-encounter-using-the-up2715k-dell-ultrasharp-27-ultra-hd-5k-monitor?lang=en#Cannot_get_5k3k_@_60Hz_on_a_Dell_E-port_plus_Advanced_Port_Replicator

 

The Dell U4919DW cannot display the 5K 5120x1440 60Hz when using Dell Generation 11 laptops that utilize the Intel HD 630 GPU. Using an HDMI, USB Type-C, or DisplayPort connection displays at 4K 3840x1080 60Hz resolution in extended mode. Intel removed the single port 5K resolution support feature from their GPU driver version 26.20.100.7584 and onward.

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/29274/Intel-Graphics-Windows-10-DCH-Drivers?product=80939

Cannot get 5k3k @ 60Hz on a Dell E-port plus Advanced Port Replicator

After following recommended DP cable connection information in the Users Guide you will not be able to display 5k3k 60Hz.

The Dell E-Port Plus Advanced Port Replicator with USB3.0 can only support up to 5120x2880 @ 30Hz.

Ensure the E-dock is with USB3.0(blue USB connector and Dell Part Number 35RXK version A01). Older E-docks (black USB connector or DPN 35RXK A00) will not support 5k3k in any configuration.

Note: Notebooks to be used must have NVidia Kx000 or AMD Wx000 series internal graphics card.

No video when connecting single DisplayPort cable

If you are using a single DisplayPort (DP) cable connection, you must connect to DP1 port or the Mini-DP port of the display. Your display resolution will be limited to 3840x2160.

Note: You will encounter a no video state if you connect to DP2 port alone on this display.
 
Note: To get 5120x2880 resolution, you must use dual DP cables provided with your display and connect to DP1 and DP2 port on the display.
 
The video or graphics card (GPU) on your PC must support the resolution setting of 5120 x 1440 @ 60Hz. Below are some video or graphics cards (GPU) that support the required resolution.
 
The video or graphics card (GPU) on your PC must support the resolution setting of 5120 x 1440 @ 60Hz.
Intel removed the single display port 5K resolution support feature from their GPU driver version 26.20.100.7584 and onward.
 
  • Intel® HD Graphics 630
  • Intel® UHD Graphics 620
  • Intel® UHD Graphics 615
  • Intel® HD Graphics 530
  • Intel® HD Graphics 520
 

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May 1st, 2020 19:00

5120x1440 is not 5K resolution.  That is "dual QHD".  5K resolution is 5120x2880. The KB article you posted above relates to E-Port docks, which aren't even being used on modern systems, and older 5K displays that required dual DisplayPort connections because they were created before DisplayPort 1.4 existed.  Newer 5K displays don't require that anymore if they're being used with a DisplayPort 1.4 system, and newer docks support DisplayPort 1.4.  

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