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BillT3620

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BillT3620

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October 19th, 2022 18:00

Starting from scratch help

I've been given a vintage 2016 T3620 with, I think, a 125 GB SSD.  It has a Fedora (Linux variant) OS and is password protected, both for users and to access the BIOS.  But the password(s) are unknown.  I don't want Fedora and have Windows 10 on a USB drive that I'd like to install.  But that means changing the boot sequence in the BIOS.  I was able to see the BIOS settings, at least many of them, by pressing F2 and/or F12 during the boot.  But I can't change anything.  I'm wondering if I could remove the CMOS battery, let it sit for an hour or so, and start again with a blank system.  Does anyone here know or have a better idea?  I'll make notes of the current settings before doing this, at least those that I can see.  There's a minor hardware issue (broken fan mounts) that will slow me down until fixed.

  • BillT3620

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    Posted October 27th, 2022 17:00

    Chino,

    It's working, sort of. Here's what I went through:

    I'd been repeatedly trying the Microsoft W10 USB in various ports and started seeing DISK ERROR when booting before Fedora came up. I began to wonder in the part was faulty so I plugged it into this computer and was able to inspect its contents. So I don't know what the issue was.

    Setting the boot sequence to UEFI didn't work. The only option was Ubuntu, which I didn't expect to work. I accidently booted with it set to that and got a message stating "No bootable systems" with options to retry or run the system diagnostics. I ran the diagnostics and it passed. So I set it back to boot from USB. By the way, this system has ten USB ports, six of which are supposed to be 3.0. The BIOS says it will append a "*" to the 3.0 ports. But it didn't mark any of them. No idea why.

    I used the link that you provided and downloaded W10 to an old flash drive. Microsoft warned that it would erase whatever was on it and it did. Unlike the Microsoft part, it worked. During the install it reached a point where it showed two partitions on the SSD but said that W10 couldn't be installed on either because they weren't NTFS formatted. I got fed up and deleted both and two new ones were created. I proceeded and it said that it wanted to restart. I did so and it took me down the same path to where it wanted to restart again. I got into the BIOS and changed the boot sequence to have the SSD first and Windows started. The very first time there was a screen about which OS I wanted. Both were W10 and I suspect that this had to do with my second pass through Setup. I never saw it again so Windows may have been smart enough to get rid of it. Windows tried to get me to connect with the internet with various offers but, as mentioned below, I'm not currently connected.

    I received a message that Windows couldn't find a driver for the P2411H monitor and set the resolution to 1024x768, I tried changing it to 1280x1024 and later to the listed resolution of 1920x1080. Both worked. Device Monitor lists the Display adapter as Microsoft Basic Display Adapter and the Monitor as Generic PnP Monitor. I got onto the Dell website and the driver there is for W7 through Vista but not W10. That may be an issue. I've downloaded that driver, an exe file, and will try it later. I've created a restore point in case it fails.

    I don't have internet access yet because I don't want to use a wired connection and don't yet have a wireless adapter (it's on order). I've installed some software including Inkscape. It works except that selecting things with the mouse is erratic. Also when I try to draw a box on the desktop, it sometimes will skip a bit before it starts or sometimes won't produce a box at all. I'm wondering if that has something to do with the display. The mouse is a wired Logitech USB mouse that may have come with the system. I have a PS/2 and a wireless USB mouse that I've yet to try. All I can say is that something's not right.

    I appreciate your help and we're slowly getting there.

  • Chino de Oro

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    Posted October 27th, 2022 21:00

    Hello Bill,

    I am not sure if you may have skipped the instruction to install drivers.  You can download and copy these drivers to your machine for installation.

    Intel Chipset Device Software, run installation on this one and restart your machine.

    Intel Management Engine Components Installer, run install

    Intel Rapid Storage Technology Driver, extract to a folder and point to it when update driver for atapi/ide/sata controller in device manager.

    Intel UHD/HD/Iris/Iris Plus Graphics Driver, extract this integrated intel video driver to a folder, then go to device manager, you will see 2 generic display driver, pick one and choose manually update, browse and point to this folder, if it says you have the best driver then point to the nvidia folder (below)

    NVIDIA Quadro Graphics Driver, extract to a folder and update one of microsoft basic display in device manager.

    After this, you should be able to change your monitor resolution without the .inf monitor driver.

    Realtek High Definition Audio Driver, extract it to a folder, run update one of your high definition audio driver in device manager, the application will be installed later when you have internet.

    Intel PCIe Ethernet Network Driver, extract to a folder and update your LAN in device manager.

    All of those drivers are Windows 10 drivers for your system.  If my post answer your question, you can select Accept as Solution to mark it solved.

  • BillT3620

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    Posted October 28th, 2022 15:00

    Chino,

    I tried a different mouse and the problem seemed to go away.  But I want to play with things some more before saying that it's fixed.  I went through Device Manager again and there's no mention of Nvida, Quadro, or K620.  That's surprising.  Also there are two USB ports on the side of the P2411H monitor that apparently are dead.  I really don't care but I wonder nonetheless.  I don't recall all the steps that I went through during Setup but I don't think there was any point where I was told to install any drivers. I thought that Setup did that.  Your driver list was appreciated but I think you (and I) missed something.  I checked the BIOS version and it's 1.3.6.  That's about 57 versions out of date and is probably the original.  Give me some time to work through all this and to install a network adapter and I'll be happy to mark it as Accept as Solution.

    Thanks again.

  • Chino de Oro

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    Posted October 28th, 2022 18:00

    Hello Bill,  it's not too late to install needed drivers.  This was part of previous post " After the installation is complete, you will need to manually install chipset driver, ME driver.  Then plug in your ethernet to activate Windows and run Windows update to get remaining drivers.  Some are under optional updates.  It doesn't hurt to install all of them."

    From the list of drivers I posted, go ahead and install the chipset and ME.  I don't advise people to update BIOS unless to fix issue, so it's up to you to bring BIOS up to date.  

    No rush or pressure to close your thread, any question or issue, just drop it here, I will monitor your threat a bit more.

  • BillT3620

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    Posted October 30th, 2022 12:00

    Chino,

    In one of your early replys, you recommended re-pasting the CPU. I assume that you're referring to using a thermal conducting compound between the CPU and its heat sink. In going though the T3620 owner's manual, including the section about replacing the CPU, there's no mention of using it at all. Are you recommending that I use it there anyway? I'm going to install a program to monitor the temperatures and fan speeds to see what they look like.

    The link that you provided above to drivers for my system puts the BIOS update in the Critical Importance category. Do you disagree with that? I see that Dell recommends updating in stages rather than going all the way to the most recent version. They also recommend first making sure that the Intel Graphic driver is updated to version 10.18.15.4279, A01 or later. So the update procedure is more complicated than it first appears.

    I've wondered if replacing the CPU with something more recent like an i7 variant would lead to a significant performance improvement. The consensus seems to be that the improvements would be modest and that this is something for gamers. Am I right about that?

  • Chino de Oro

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    Posted October 30th, 2022 13:00

    Hi Bill,  I suggest to clean out old thermal paste and apply fresh paste because you have a professional business machine.  It could had been used many hours a day for the past 5 - 6 years.  The old paste could have been dried out and not working as good as fresh new paste.  Remember that I also suggest to change the coin cell battery.  Those are little cost but you can perform all at once as part of machine maintenance.  You were planning to order some other item like rubber fan mounts and displayport cable, if you add up many little items, it will be enough to receive free shipping, hence the suggestion to your plan.  The task is simple but following the service manual will be better and safer for you.

    If you are installing up to date OS and programs, a BIOS update will be benefit as it will update the management engine components as well.  I know by saying this, other members might jump in and criticize my suggestion but I would update straight to the current BIOS without stepping.  In contrary to others, I think it's safer to flash once than attempting 10 or 20 times.  But of course, your machine, your decision.  The BIOS update is very simple, I would just download the BIOS to download folder and double click on it to run.  Just make sure no interruption of power, no other task running (disconnect your PC from internet will be a big help), and no other extra device connect to the machine beside video, audio, mouse and keyboard.  

    A CPU upgrade will provide benefit in performance, how much of improvement verse the cost needed to be measure for the worthy of benefit gain.  I think you leave it for another day.  Focusing on making your machine run with optimal performance first, then you can get a base line for comparing to set your upgrade goal. 

     

  • BillT3620

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    Posted November 2nd, 2022 17:00

    Chino,

    I downloaded the driver update files that you listed and began installing them. Chipset and Management Engine went as expected. When I got to the Intel Iris Graphics Driver only one generic driver was listed by Device Manager. I think it was dated 6/21/2006. I tried updating with the newer driver and it said that the best driver was already installed. I've extracted the NVIDA driver but decided to check with you before proceeding with it. Do you see an issue? The sense I get is that the Intel drivers use the on-chip integrated graphics and the NVIDA driver will shift that to the K620. Is that right?

    Your comment about workstation usage made me wonder about temperatures so I installed HWMonitor. The core temps are all reasonable. There also are two temps labeled TZ00 and TZ01 that are about 15 F higher, but not changing. Some searching suggests that they might be associated with the motherboard but I can't find anything definitive. Do you happen to know what, if anything, they are? I was under the impression that this computer was used regularly but not excessively. However the BIOS was initially set to turn it on automatically at 5 AM every day. That doesn't make much sense unless it was used for some sort of automatic data logging activity. I'm currently trying to find out more.

    HWMonitor doesn't display any fan speeds. I've tried two others including SpeedFan with the same result. Do you happen to know of any that will display the fan speeds?

    I've added a Dell AX510 soundboard. That was easy except for the Dell documentation. Attached below is a pic of the relevant section of the T3620 owner's manual as well as what the rear panel looks like. The audio icons are small enough that it was hard to notice details. But I now understand that the horizontal line in them is an arrow and is showing audio-in on the left and audio-out on the right. I initially thought that they might be denoting the left and right speakers! The owner's manual is very disappointing.

    I'd previously mentioned changing to a faster processor. I don't know if I will ever do that but some snooping around suggest that the i5-9400F is nearly 70% faster in benchmarks than my i5-6500. Used ones sell for around $70. I also see used i5-9500F's but they're around $120. That's too much for the associated gains. We'll have to see how happy I am with the i5-6500 and if prices drop at all. The benchmarks tend to be dominated by gamers who are only interested in frame rates. That's not of particular interest to me.

    External connectors-4.jpg

  • Chino de Oro

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    Posted November 2nd, 2022 18:00

    Hello Bill, I will try to assist with all the questions you have in order as I am reading.

    Yes, you can update the only display driver you see with nVidia driver, there won't be any issue.  It will depend on where you plug in the video cable and Windows will use it as main display.  

    If you are concern about certain temperatures and wanting to know overall condition of you PC, download Speccy and install it (if you don't like, it can be uninstall without any problem).  After you launch it, use Windows Snipping tool to take a screenshot and post it here so I can see better of your setup (without having to go back and reading this entire thread).  Also, if you download this Crystal Disk Info and installing it.  After you launch it, look at the top right corner, it will tell you how many hours the SSD drive has been on (hover over the info also tell you in years and days).  The information may not necessarily mean good or bad because it does not reflect the (stressful) condition the machine was run.  Wanting to learn about your machine is okay but do not over concern about something already been done.  Start fresh with what you want, how you want and only repair/upgrade to meet your needs.

    I see the picture you post.  The color codes and symbols indicate an input (mic) and output (speaker).  You used the right plug.

    Your CPU upgrade plan will entirely depend on your needs.  Benchmark numbers are just numbers, you won't see any different if you don't have the needs (CPU intensive tasks).  One thing to note, the model suffix F meaning no integrated graphics.

     

  • BillT3620

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    Posted November 5th, 2022 19:00


    Chino,
    I updated the graphics driver to the NVIDA. It scared me when the screen suddenly went black. But it came back after several seconds with NVIDA Quadro K620 listed in Device Manager. I also tried updating the audio driver but it said that I already had the most recent driver (12/6/19 vs 6/21/17 in the Dell Update Package).
    Here are screenshots from HNMonitor and CrystalDiskInfo plus a portion of the listing produced by Speccy ( I think I've come across a minor bug in Speccy and will be contacting them about it).
    I don't think it's a Dell thing but no one displays the fan speeds. I've looked at some manufacturer's drawings for fans used by Intel. They aren't terribly informative but the four leads seem to be a ground, 12 V, PWM (pulse width modulation signal), and a speed signal. So the speed information seems to be there. Go figure.
    Since I have the K620, the on-chip graphics seem unnecessary. Hence the 9400F.
    With regard to benchmarks, I have my own, a program that solves complex logical problems and makes about 2.5 trillion 800 bit comparisons. It took eight days to complete when first run on a 100MHx Pentium (and possibly caused the motherboard to fail). That was cut down to around 6.5 hours on a 2.5GHz Athlon. Both were years ago. I'd like to convert it to use 64 bit words and run on a contemporary machine.


    Speccy:
    Operating System Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
    CPU Intel Core i5 6500 @ 3.20GHz
    Skylake 14nm Technology
    Average Temperature 65 °F
    Core 0 Temperature 67 °F
    Core 1 Temperature 65 °F
    Core 2 Temperature 65 °F
    Core 3 Temperature 63 °F
    Motherboard Manufacturer Dell Inc.
    Model 09WH54 (Socket 0)
    Version A00
    Chipset Vendor Intel
    Chipset Model Skylake
    Chipset Revision 07
    Southbridge Vendor Intel
    Southbridge Model C236
    Southbridge Revision 31
    BIOS Brand Dell Inc.
    Version 1.3.6
    Date 5/26/2016
    PCI Data Slot PCI-E Gen 3
    Slot Type PCI-E Gen 3
    Data lanes x16
    Slot Designation SLOT1
    Characteristics 3.3V, PME
    Slot Number 0
    RAM 8.00GB Single-Channel DDR4 @ 1064MHz (15-15-15-36)
    Physical Memory
    Memory Usage 24 %
    Total Physical 7.93 GB
    Available Physical 5.98 GB
    Total Virtual 9.80 GB
    Available Virtual 7.62 GB
    SPD Slot #1 Type DDR4
    Size 8192 MBytes
    Manufacturer SK Hynix
    Max Bandwidth DDR4-2134 (1067 MHz)
    Part Number HMA41GU6AFR8N-TF
    Serial Number 642263461
    Week/year 10 / 16Hard drives
    Graphics DELL P2411H (1920x1080@60Hz)
    2047MB NVIDIA Quadro K620 (NVIDIA) 96 °F
    Current Resolution 1920x1080 pixels
    Bus Interface PCI Express x16
    Storage 119GB SK hynix SC308 SATA 128GB (SSD)
    SATA type SATA-III 6.0Gb/s
    Power On Count 348 times
    Power On Time 2187.0 days
    Temperature 69 °F
    Power On Count 348 times
    Power On Time 2187.0 days
    Erase/Program Cycles 20,231,002
    Average Erase Count, Max Erase Count 166,390,393,120
    Total LBAs Written 15,730,239,055
    Total LBAs Read 6,656,736,963
    Read Error Retry Rate 3,542,928