Area-51 R5, CPU, GPU upgrade questions

Given that the release of x299 is imminent (October) we should have final answers in the very near future, but perhaps not answers for an Alien product *anytime soon*

Intel has a history of only supporting two chips, so this would make a rare 3rd chip. I  checked a few days ago on Cascade Lake Gen10 x299, & read that it's at least expected the socket 2066 & chipset will be unchanged & that motherboard manufacturers will release a Bios update for old boards in order that their owners can upgrade. Depending on who you read, the media uses guarded language, as if Intel still has not made a final verdict yet

It's possible I didn't dig hard enough for Intel's verdict on old boards, but what I did find is that Asus showed off two brand new x299 skt 2066 boards last month, a good sign

I just checked on older Asus ROG Rampage VI Extreme Omega x299 - an $800 board - & because it is we can expect it to get the Gen10 Bios update, but it hasn't been made available yet. AsRock's old x299 lineup did get the update on 9.19.19, a good sign (Bios release notes: 'Supports New Intel Core™ X-Series Processors'). So did EVGA x299 Dark 9.20.19 (release notes: 'Support next-gen processors'). So these Bios updates are happening & some already are in the wild which is good enough for me to say old x299 boards will upgrade in a rare move by Intel

My prediction is that R5 (N4R4N) will not get the update

My prediction is the Aliens will take the stance that 'if they desire the new chip then they need to buy our new desktop to get it'

Afterall, the A51 R4 x299 (HJ5Y7) did not get an update either (R5's Jan. 2019 Bios update for what was then new Gen9 support 1.0.0.1029) & R4 remains the only x299 motherboard on planet earth that can't update past 7800x / 7980xe = a true alien board

R3 & R6 Threadrippers did not get a Bios update either, still stuck on TRip1, true alien boards & it remains to be seen if the R7 will get an update for TRip3 (I think not)

I say no, I say R5 & R7 are dead-end products; that when the brand new redesigned A51 R8 R9 'Legend' cases - which are imminent - when they launch, I say the Aliens will be done with the old Triad line & offer no more Bios support (unless it's merely to address Intel Spectre/Meltdown microcode to help slow down those PCs even more)

Aurora R5 & R7 did not get socket 1151 Bios updates either (true aliens), so Dellware has a history of being **** like that

*But other history (like the R2's Broadwell-E Bios update) suggests that when they do offer a Bios update for next-Gen CPUs, it occurs several months after new CPU's launch date; therefore, with new Intel CPUs in October & then a new freshly redesigned A51 also imminent, we'll get a paper launch & then new desktops ship in say end of October or start of November. Were there to be an R5 Gen10 Bios update it would most likely publish in January or February (after the sales hype & the Holidays die down) which makes talking about this right now premature. You can be sure the Aliens will not discuss plans or the lack of plans for R5 & R7 at all, which means you have to wait it out the same way Aurora R7 (+ 51 R4) owners waited it out (waited & waited for months for Bios update but never got one ... they're still 'waiting' a year later ...)

You can ask if R5 will get a Bios update on Twitter, addressed to Umar or Ernie, & when they pay lip service, ask again November-February. The reality is that 99% of Alien employees are as in the dark & stay as much in the dark as the owner's community is / does: 'we'll get that info the same day as you - when it publishes for download - until it does we don't know' yadda yadda

Personally, I say when R8 R9 launch next month or so with new 'refreshed' x299/TR4 boards (new part#'s & perhaps cosmetic changes), that they're done with R5 R7 & they're owners (which we unaffectionately call being tossed under the bus)

However, if u want an R5 at a discount, just get one. Own it for a while, seek some pleasure then sell it

As for nVidia GPUs, confidence is high that a future '3080' would work on old hardware, in the same way when the 980 series was brand new, owners later adopted 1080/2080 w/ out issue & may adopt 3080s next; nVidia has incentives to make new products work on 'old tech'. As with any products that do not exist yet it's tough to say what the future may bring

Thank you so much for taking the time to give such a detailed response. I figured the GPU would be upgradeable so that is good. I just find it hard to believe that Dell could basically tell someone who may have spent 5 grand on a 9th Gen Area 51 a month ago that they are out of luck and just spent 5 grand on a dead end machine. It would be nice if the 9th Gen A51 was given the a ility to upgrade but then again, I guess a 9th Gen A51 will be good enough to last a few years just the way it is. 

Stabbing an old customer in the back & tossing them under the bus is an odd way to entice them into becoming a returning customer … but hey … why not?

We can let the Threadripper R3 buyers still stuck on 1950x for no good reason (no 2950x for u!) debate the 'taking away of possible future sales', especially since they won't be happy when 3rd Gen TRip launches in November & lose their chance at two upgrade CPU paths; I don't see them returning to buy what should be the new R9 anytime soon & thus a self-fulfilling prophecy of 'harming future sales', & why should they if in their experience they'd have every right to believe they'd get no TRip4 support either & then be asked to buy an R11 (!) (history suggests here that even a new R9 may be a dead-end in the face of an R11 Gen4 launch, understand?), &, on the other foot if the new R8 is the Intel, it too would be dead-end since we can't expect Intel to support a 4th x299 Chip

Be it R3 R4 R5 R6 R7 R8 R9, everywhere real & potential dead-ends

I'd love to be wrong. Never say never. The Aliens may have a new General Manager & may surprise here, but, if redesigned desktops ship November you won't see an R5 Bios update til prolly mid-January (an earlier Bios release might 'harm' R8 sales so if it's coming it'd be delayed). If u buy an R5 & get no update, voice your displeasure in all places it can be voiced

OK, so Basically at this point, every R5 is upgradeable to a 9th-gen chip correct? So even if I bought a lower end R5 with the 7th-gen 7800x and a 1080ti, I could upgrade that to a 9th-gen 9800x and a 2080ti for instance if I wanted. I could even upgrade the PSU just in case I want SLI at some point. It's only the R4 that can not support the 9th-gen chip right? 

Then the only issue is that the 9th-gen CPU's and maybe even the current RTX cards may be the farthest I could go with it. That would be fine as I'm sure that at that point, a 9th-gen 9800x and a 2080ti or 2 in SLI would be able to do or play anything I would need for a few years.

In the 51 R2 it was discovered it could not get a PSU swap to the Corsair Hx1200i Ax1200i or Ax1500i due to the system's Bios in conflict w/ the PSU Power OK timing signal (as an alienboard it found itself the only motherboard on planet earth unable to swap to 1500i). Successful or unsuccessful R4 R5 swaps to Hx/Ax 1200i 1500i 1600i are not reported yet, but all other brands / wattages seem to work. You may find the stock 800GY or 0VK3T 1500w a suitable option over the 850w

'Every R4 this & every R5 that', isn't so cut & dried

1) R4 x299 launched w/ HJ5Y7 mthrbrd

2) Next, the Triad chassis was given a subtle redesign called Chassis 2.0, & was dubbed the 'R5' to differentiate it from R4 Chassis 1.0 --> some of those R5's housed HJ5Y7 R4 mthrbrd + what was still new 7800x 7980xe etc, until ...

3) the SkyLake X Refresh quickly followed Chassis 2.0 revision w/a 'new' mthrbrd N4R4N, & only N4R4N can run Gen 9 (9800 - 9980 etc), HJ5Y7 can not

4) In production since about last March are the newest latest last production N4R4N which have black heatsink pairs, that's the one u want (earlier production boards will either have one bare metal heatsink or both bare metal)

Therefore, if you buy an Outlet model this late in the game which they call R5, then 99.9% sure it's housing N4R4N. Only in the rarest circumstance would they legit sell / you buy an 'R5' with the dead-end board in it called HJ5Y7. Naturally, only R5s with a Gen7 Intel run the risk of having HJ5Y7 as the mainboard. If so? Return it back to them

it's the R4 that can not support the 9th-gen chip right? Truer to say it's HJ5Y7 that can not support it

every R5 is upgradeable to a 9th-gen chip? Every N4R4N is

So even if I bought a lower end R5 with the 7th-gen 7800x and a 1080ti, I could upgrade that to a 9th-gen 9800x and a 2080ti for instance if I wanted. Yes, if N4R4N is inside it, no if HJ5Y7 is inside it

The R5 got its name, not because of a new CPU (as would normally be the case) but because of a new chassis revision, the new Gen9 chip came later, so, some early-production R5s should house HJ5Y7 which isn't odd because all it needs is a Bios update to be identical to N4R4N, lol, they're the same board, both MS-7A87 v1.0

Then the only issue is that the 9th-gen CPU's and maybe even the current RTX cards may be the farthest I could go with it. Yes. May be the farthest u can go. Your chances at RTX 3000 are greater (closer to 100%) than your chances at Intel Gen10 (closer to 0%) ... you'd have to play the waiting game to find out if they'll update the Bios or not 

Edit per new post below:

Since eBay represents the best place to find out what current market prices are on new & used hardware, you might get a ball park figure on a 'new other' 7800x & then price a 9800x & see what u stand to lose to sell the one & buy the other. The same goes for the Alien-branded MSI 1080Ti vs 2080Ti of your choice

From there, we learned that if u chat in with or call Dell Sales u can usually pay less, haggle for a discount, or, haggle for a better / longer warranty

OK, so Basically at this point, every R5 is upgradeable to a 9th-gen chip correct? So even if I bought a lower end R5 with the 7th-gen 7800x and a 1080ti, I could upgrade that to a 9th-gen 9800x and a 2080ti for instance if I wanted. I could even upgrade the PSU just in case I want SLI at some point. It's only the R4 that can not support the 9th-gen chip right? 

The only surefire way you will be able to determine that is to have a 9th-gen chip in your hand ready before the 30-day return period is over, plug it in, and see what happens. Otherwise, the alternative is to have Dell Outlet's written agreement that the Alienware Area 51 R5 will be shipped to you with a BIOS that is equal or newer than Version 1.0.0.1029, 2.0.0 per the link from @Cass-Ole.

However, let's do some math here: The system(s) you are looking at are $1878.99 - $1936.99 before tax (depending where you live). Checking the egg site, here are the prices for Intel 9th Gen HEDT CPUs

9980XE - $1989.99

9960X - $1649.99

9940X - $1104.99

9920X - $1069.99

9800X - $599.99

So any jump to 9th Gen costs you $600 out of the pocket. Adding the 2080 Ti would be another $1000. At ~$3500, maybe you could start looking at other custom builders? Clicking around Origin's website, a similar config with 9820X and 2080 Ti FE card costs ~$4200. And if you're thinking about starting "low" and then slowly upgrading parts, I can tell you outright, current generation Alienwares aren't the best starting point. I'm this close to buying a Dremel and start making permanent changes to my Aurora R8.

If I went lower end I would probably just upgrade the CPU right away and skip this Gen GPU's all together and just stick with the 1080ti until I see if the next Gen GPU is compatible. Next Gen will be the 1st chips that will really be ready for full on max setting with Ray tracing enabled anyway. I look at this Gen GPU's as the test run. Not quite ready for prime time 4k Ray Tracing.

As far as other manufacturers, there's not a lot I like. I was actually looking at the Corsair Vengeance and was close to pulling the trigger on the 5189 but I saw the discounts on the A51 and I always wanted 1 so I started really looking at them. Between the discounts on them and the 34 inch ultrawide right now, I can literally get everything for about half as much as I could just a few months ago and half as much as I would if I waited for the new model along with the new monitor. The current prices made me really start looking at all this again. 

I was speaking with a rep the other day about the lower end new configuration and a higher end refurbished configuration. Sounds like it would be safer to go with the higher end refurbished with the 9th-gen over the new lower end with the 7th-gen. Unless I can get them to tell me what motherboard is in it. As far as the PSU, I was just going to upgrade to the official Dell 1500 watt to be safe. 

Dell did provide the required BIOS update to allow 9th gen support on earlier Area 51 R5's.  The update wasn't made available to R4 owners. 

  https://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/19/drivers/driversdetails?driverid=0wd47&oscode=wt64a&productcode=alienware-area51-r4 

RESPONDING TO: 

The R5 got its name, not because of a new CPU (as would normally be the case) but because of a new chassis revision, the new Gen9 chip came later, so, some early-production R5s should house HJ5Y7 which isn't odd because all it needs is a Bios update to be identical to N4R4N, lol, they're the same board, both MS-7A87 v1.0

I was speaking with a rep the other day about the lower end new configuration and a higher end refurbished configuration. Sounds like it would be safer to go with the higher end refurbished with the 9th-gen over the new lower end with the 7th-gen. Unless I can get them to tell me what motherboard is in it. As far as the PSU, I was just going to upgrade to the official Dell 1500 watt to be safe. 

Yes, I could see that for just over $2000, you can get the refurb with the 9th gen. Nothing wrong with that except I'd recommend you thoroughly put the system through all sorts of tests and benchmarks within the first 30 days. My last experience with an Optiplex 7760 refurb didn't go well as it shipped with the GPU cold plate not touching the chip and a Dell technician sent over was totally perplexed when he saw that the thermal grease looked pristine i.e. no contact at all. Don't forget about the AlienFX too because sometimes you'll get too focused on CPU/ GPU/ thermals/ noise benchmark only to find a faulty RGB system after 30-days over.

Also, there could be restocking fee if you decide to return the refurb so do work out all those little details first as to who pays what should you decide to shun this if and when the new Area 51 "legendary" is released. Good luck!

The rep I spoke to at the outlet told me that the certified refurbished were customer returns due to canceled orders, non payment or other non operational issues. He then stated there would be no difference between those certified refurbished ones and a new one. 

My hesitation about the refurbished route is why I was also looking at the new but lower end model. I just feel like going with the higher end with the 9th Gen chip may give me a slightly higher chance that it will be upgradeable and even if it's not, it will still be a heck of a machine for a few years. Intel announcing the new X chips today didn't make it any easier. I had planned on deciding by Monday, as you can tell that didn't happen. I'm really torn. 

My post yesterday tried to weed out a caveat, a technicality concerning mthrbrd part #'s. The Aliens displayed what was then a new 2nd Gen Triad Chassis 2.0 option at CES in Jan 2018, shipping begins ~Feb. 2018 ... HJ5Y7 ('R4') mthrbrd would cease production in that Feb-March window as the changeover from R4 to R5 happened ... all those final R4s, all those initial R5s have been long ago sold, no chance Dell has any left by January of 2019 let alone now. It's a given that all R5s in the Outlet at this stage of the game house N4R4N, the board of choice. When shopping, I myself here?, put myself in your shoes?, Dell's the only place I'd trust to get one sight unseen. Other places or persons, be it a private seller, a large vendor?, a person or place I can't make a return to?, then I'd need to see pics 1st in order to weed out a suspect Feb-March 2018 build. I'd say the coast is well clear by now that an Outlet R5 w/ a 7800x or similar will have the N4R4N board of choice in it u want. Feel free to ask the Sales Rep to get the service tag & to call up the build date on the prospective PC they wish to sell u if possible. Since the last final best cosmetic changes to R5 (black mthrbrd heatsinks + black case wiring) occurred last Feb/March, you'll want a 2019 build that's 6months old or less anyways (I would). Otherwise, I wouldn't hesitate to buy their R5s

And it was an interesting day that 1st started out with Intel 'price & spec leaks' ... looks like Intel announced formally in response: an October 7 paper launch to look forward to. Thank goodness for AMD: without them there's no such thing as Intel slashing $1000 off their top CPU, lol

I haven't used the Outlet before, not sure what their process is. I'd bet 80%-90% of their offerings are 90days old or less, I doubt every last one is, they may strive for such a standard but there are 11 Aurora R7s in the Outlet right now, how could those be 90days old or less ... ... ...

The sooner u get it the sooner it gets to u for inspection, sooner it could get returned for something else were there an issue. Perhaps if u buy it, Dell will email u the details in the receipt where upon u could contact Sales/Support to give u its history

If you chatted in to Dell Sales where there's an option to have them email you a transcript then I'd typically save their transcript / reply email to document claims like 90days old or less. It may be the case that u want to re-chat / re-call one last time & get a 2nd opinion on possible vintage of desktop u wish to buy. Ask someone that if u pay for it 1st can they or can u get the service tag & build details & history afterwards, you know, between the time its payed for & before delivery occurs, the online receipt etc. Again, I do trust them to sell u that N4R4N mthrbrd with it, especially here at the very end, & so should u (=

The rep at the Dell outlet stated he does not have access to the service tag or exact manufacture date of the PC's but that all the PC's they have were built within the last 90 days and that they do not deal with PC's older than that so they would all be upgradeable to the 9th gen chips. Does that sound right?

I tried adding to cart and then copying and pasting every single 5-digit alphanumerics on the detail sheet into google and dell support site to no avail. Sorry!

Another thing to consider when upgrading to 9th gen CPUs even if you can is whether street price for the 9th gen will be adjusted down or not to match 10th gen?