Never, ever Trim (Defrag) a Solid State Drive (SSD). There are no performance improvements and Trimming (Defragging) a SSD will shorten its life. More information here.
I opened up the computer case and had a look around. A lot of things seemed to be layered on top of one another, so maybe I missed something, but everything I could see looked like it was plugged in securely. After I closed the case and started up again, the computer actually booted successfully, but this may have been a fluke: it got the latest Windows update and restarted successfully while applying it, but then when I shut the machine down and attempted to start it for a third time, it froze just like before.
During the moments the machine was working, I ran the System File Checker, but it said no integrity violations were found.
Unless anyone's had a stroke of inspiration, I'm just about resigned to packing this thing up and sending it to Dell to see if they can fix it. I suppose I could try doing a Clean Boot and re-enabling programs one by one, but I'm not even sure this would help, as the PC already starts sometimes, just not consistently.
Thanks crimsom and everyone else for being so thoughtful and helpful. A lot of good ideas came my way, and I really appreciate it. Just a shame nothing quite clicked!
Hi @Zirilian thank you for the update, most perplexing. The system is trying its best to boot, without revealing the underlying problem. So its something that SupportAssist ePSA and POST does not report upon, such as the optional extras. At next successful boot, please switch off the optional extras: Tobii eye tracking system and the AlienFX lights. Thank you.
Sounds like a good idea, I'll try this. When you talk about turning off the eye-tracking system, do you think it would be best to do this under Startup Apps, or is there another way I should disable it? Same with the lights – is it enough to tap the F12 key, or is there a more fundamental way I should disable them?
I haven't managed another successful boot yet (to be fair, I didn't have a lot of time to work on it today), but on one occasion when I had access to the Windows recovery environment (the advanced troubleshooting options), I tried running chkdsk from the command prompt there. I ran the command chkdsk C:\ and received the result "The drive, the path, or the file name is not valid." Is this normal in the Windows recovery environment? Or is it a sign that the computer is failing to find the hard drive?
It shouldn't say that the drive or boot path doesn't exist or its not specified as that would mean the Connector for the drive has gone bad, The drive itself is failing or All the DATA is gone.
Hi @Zirilian thank you for the updates. The Dell Community forum will work at your pace, so provide updates when you can.
Removing start up of optional extras from the start up menu is an option. Another option would be to look within the Task Manager's Details tab and to stop an unwanted process for your session. Also, most applications give options to switch off their functions.
It does not matter where the command is run from. However, command will not know what to do with "chkdsk C:\" because it is being told to expect additional commands with the inclusion of "\", but there are no additional commands. The command “chkdsk c:” will scan the disk and display status information, but it will not fix any errors that are encountered. To get chkdsk to do a full scan with a repair pass, the command line would be “chkdsk c: /f /r /x”. There are other additional commands that can be used.
In your case, getting the system to boot is your fundamental focus. Advocate running check disk first, to find and fix any problems. Then decide what to do about troubleshooting the optional extras.
Hi @Zirilian please start your m17 R2 in Windows safe mode, start with the most basic setting and run check disk to find and fix the problem. If no check disk problems found, incrementally select start-up safe mode options with more services until the start-up problem resurfaces.
Safe mode starts Windows in a basic state, using a limited set of files and drivers. If a problem doesn't happen in safe mode, this means that default settings and basic device drivers aren't causing the issue. Observing Windows in safe mode enables you to narrow down the source of a problem, and can help you troubleshoot problems on your PC.
It took a couple tries, but I was able to boot into safe mode. (Out of curiosity, I ran SFC while there, but it found no integrity violations.) I ran chkdsk from a restart (i.e., the volume was in use in safe mode, so it ran checkdisk at the next restart) and it completed successfully. When it moved on, however, I got a BSOD with the stop code NTFS_FILE_SYSTEM. The PC then restarted automatically, did its "Diagnosing your PC" thing, which I often see before it goes into WinRE, but then continued with the message "Repairing disk errors." It restarted and ran checkdisk again. This time there was no BSOD, but it still failed to boot and went into WinRE instead. After manually restarting once more, the PC booted successfully, but I had no Internet connection. Go figure. I disabled the Tobii Eye Tracker just for good measure, but the PC failed to boot once more after that.
@crimsom, when you say "incrementally select start-up safe mode options with more services," where would I make this selection? If chkdsk is already running from the very beginning of the boot cycle, would it make a difference which start-up options had been enabled when the computer was booted?
Hi @Zirilian thank you for the update. Windows Startup Settings offers three types of safe mode, see image. 4.Enable Safe Mode, 5. Enable Safe Mode with Networking, and 6. Enable Safe Mode with Command Prompt. Both 4. and 6. are not connected to network (internet, etc.).
4. Enable Safe Mode: This is the most basic type of Safe Mode. It starts Windows 10 by loading the most essential settings and services of the system. Any other unnecessary programs, drivers or services won’t be loaded. This puts the PC in a safer status by cutting off the possible malware or virus that may move through third-party software, drivers, or local networks.
5. Enable Safe Mode with Networking: If you choose to start Windows 10 in safe mode with networking, then it will add other necessary drivers and services that are required to access the networks, while keeping the same set of drivers and services of Safe Mode. This is not as safe as Safe Mode, but it’s useful when you need to access the Internet.
6. Enable Safe Mode with Command Prompt: If you choose to boot Windows 10 in Safe Mode with Command Prompt, then your computer will display a big Command Prompt window. Professionals can easily use command lines to fix related issues of Windows 10 PC. However, if you don’t know much about CMD, it’s not advised to choose this option.
Hi @Zirilian thank you for the update and additional information about your system's behaviour.
When Windows functions aren't working or Windows crashes, System File Checker (SFC) can be used to scan Windows and restore files. An elevated command prompt is used to Run the System File Checker tool.
Your update says, startup begins with "Diagnosing your PC" which you often see before it goes into WinRE (Windows Recovery Environment).
Your update says, after running check disk, BSOD (Blue Screen) appeared with the stop code NTFS_FILE_SYSTEM. Sometimes this error message also mentions the driver causing this error, but this was not included in your error message.
Hi @Zirilianstop code NTFS_FILE_SYSTEM has appeared. Please run driver Verifier. Type verifier into search (bottom LH corner) and Run as administrator.
Driver Verifier is a tool included in Microsoft Windows that replaces the default operating system subroutines with ones that are specifically developed to catch device driver bugs. It monitors Windows kernel-mode drivers and graphics drivers to detect illegal function calls or actions that might corrupt the system. Driver Verifier can subject Windows drivers to a variety of stresses and tests to find improper behaviour. Running Driver Verifier could cause the computer to crash.
A51-06
5 Practitioner
•
3.1K Posts
0
October 19th, 2020 10:00
Also try trimming the ssd's in the disk defrager.
crimsom
7 Technologist
•
6.1K Posts
1
October 19th, 2020 11:00
Never, ever Trim (Defrag) a Solid State Drive (SSD). There are no performance improvements and Trimming (Defragging) a SSD will shorten its life. More information here.
A51-06
5 Practitioner
•
3.1K Posts
1
October 19th, 2020 13:00
OH SHOO-
My mistake.
Zirilian
15 Posts
0
October 20th, 2020 18:00
Hi @crimsom and all,
I opened up the computer case and had a look around. A lot of things seemed to be layered on top of one another, so maybe I missed something, but everything I could see looked like it was plugged in securely. After I closed the case and started up again, the computer actually booted successfully, but this may have been a fluke: it got the latest Windows update and restarted successfully while applying it, but then when I shut the machine down and attempted to start it for a third time, it froze just like before.
During the moments the machine was working, I ran the System File Checker, but it said no integrity violations were found.
Unless anyone's had a stroke of inspiration, I'm just about resigned to packing this thing up and sending it to Dell to see if they can fix it. I suppose I could try doing a Clean Boot and re-enabling programs one by one, but I'm not even sure this would help, as the PC already starts sometimes, just not consistently.
Thanks crimsom and everyone else for being so thoughtful and helpful. A lot of good ideas came my way, and I really appreciate it. Just a shame nothing quite clicked!
crimsom
7 Technologist
•
6.1K Posts
0
October 20th, 2020 21:00
Hi @Zirilian thank you for the update, most perplexing. The system is trying its best to boot, without revealing the underlying problem. So its something that SupportAssist ePSA and POST does not report upon, such as the optional extras. At next successful boot, please switch off the optional extras: Tobii eye tracking system and the AlienFX lights. Thank you.
Zirilian
15 Posts
0
October 21st, 2020 06:00
Hi @crimsom,
Sounds like a good idea, I'll try this. When you talk about turning off the eye-tracking system, do you think it would be best to do this under Startup Apps, or is there another way I should disable it? Same with the lights – is it enough to tap the F12 key, or is there a more fundamental way I should disable them?
Zirilian
15 Posts
0
October 21st, 2020 18:00
Hi @crimsom
I haven't managed another successful boot yet (to be fair, I didn't have a lot of time to work on it today), but on one occasion when I had access to the Windows recovery environment (the advanced troubleshooting options), I tried running chkdsk from the command prompt there. I ran the command chkdsk C:\ and received the result "The drive, the path, or the file name is not valid." Is this normal in the Windows recovery environment? Or is it a sign that the computer is failing to find the hard drive?
A51-06
5 Practitioner
•
3.1K Posts
0
October 21st, 2020 20:00
That's bad. Real bad.
It shouldn't say that the drive or boot path doesn't exist or its not specified as that would mean the Connector for the drive has gone bad, The drive itself is failing or All the DATA is gone.
crimsom
7 Technologist
•
6.1K Posts
0
October 22nd, 2020 02:00
Hi @Zirilian thank you for the updates. The Dell Community forum will work at your pace, so provide updates when you can.
Removing start up of optional extras from the start up menu is an option. Another option would be to look within the Task Manager's Details tab and to stop an unwanted process for your session. Also, most applications give options to switch off their functions.
It does not matter where the command is run from. However, command will not know what to do with "chkdsk C:\" because it is being told to expect additional commands with the inclusion of "\", but there are no additional commands. The command “chkdsk c:” will scan the disk and display status information, but it will not fix any errors that are encountered. To get chkdsk to do a full scan with a repair pass, the command line would be “chkdsk c: /f /r /x”. There are other additional commands that can be used.
In your case, getting the system to boot is your fundamental focus. Advocate running check disk first, to find and fix any problems. Then decide what to do about troubleshooting the optional extras.
crimsom
7 Technologist
•
6.1K Posts
0
October 23rd, 2020 04:00
Hi @Zirilian please start your m17 R2 in Windows safe mode, start with the most basic setting and run check disk to find and fix the problem. If no check disk problems found, incrementally select start-up safe mode options with more services until the start-up problem resurfaces.
Safe mode starts Windows in a basic state, using a limited set of files and drivers. If a problem doesn't happen in safe mode, this means that default settings and basic device drivers aren't causing the issue. Observing Windows in safe mode enables you to narrow down the source of a problem, and can help you troubleshoot problems on your PC.
Zirilian
15 Posts
0
October 23rd, 2020 17:00
It took a couple tries, but I was able to boot into safe mode. (Out of curiosity, I ran SFC while there, but it found no integrity violations.) I ran chkdsk from a restart (i.e., the volume was in use in safe mode, so it ran checkdisk at the next restart) and it completed successfully. When it moved on, however, I got a BSOD with the stop code NTFS_FILE_SYSTEM. The PC then restarted automatically, did its "Diagnosing your PC" thing, which I often see before it goes into WinRE, but then continued with the message "Repairing disk errors." It restarted and ran checkdisk again. This time there was no BSOD, but it still failed to boot and went into WinRE instead. After manually restarting once more, the PC booted successfully, but I had no Internet connection. Go figure. I disabled the Tobii Eye Tracker just for good measure, but the PC failed to boot once more after that.
@crimsom, when you say "incrementally select start-up safe mode options with more services," where would I make this selection? If chkdsk is already running from the very beginning of the boot cycle, would it make a difference which start-up options had been enabled when the computer was booted?
crimsom
7 Technologist
•
6.1K Posts
0
October 23rd, 2020 22:00
Hi @Zirilian thank you for the update. Windows Startup Settings offers three types of safe mode, see image. 4.Enable Safe Mode, 5. Enable Safe Mode with Networking, and 6. Enable Safe Mode with Command Prompt. Both 4. and 6. are not connected to network (internet, etc.).
4. Enable Safe Mode: This is the most basic type of Safe Mode. It starts Windows 10 by loading the most essential settings and services of the system. Any other unnecessary programs, drivers or services won’t be loaded. This puts the PC in a safer status by cutting off the possible malware or virus that may move through third-party software, drivers, or local networks.
5. Enable Safe Mode with Networking: If you choose to start Windows 10 in safe mode with networking, then it will add other necessary drivers and services that are required to access the networks, while keeping the same set of drivers and services of Safe Mode. This is not as safe as Safe Mode, but it’s useful when you need to access the Internet.
6. Enable Safe Mode with Command Prompt: If you choose to boot Windows 10 in Safe Mode with Command Prompt, then your computer will display a big Command Prompt window. Professionals can easily use command lines to fix related issues of Windows 10 PC. However, if you don’t know much about CMD, it’s not advised to choose this option.
crimsom
7 Technologist
•
6.1K Posts
0
October 23rd, 2020 23:00
Hi @Zirilian thank you for the update and additional information about your system's behaviour.
When Windows functions aren't working or Windows crashes, System File Checker (SFC) can be used to scan Windows and restore files. An elevated command prompt is used to Run the System File Checker tool.
Your update says, startup begins with "Diagnosing your PC" which you often see before it goes into WinRE (Windows Recovery Environment).
Your update says, after running check disk, BSOD (Blue Screen) appeared with the stop code NTFS_FILE_SYSTEM. Sometimes this error message also mentions the driver causing this error, but this was not included in your error message.
crimsom
7 Technologist
•
6.1K Posts
0
October 23rd, 2020 23:00
Hi @Zirilian stop code NTFS_FILE_SYSTEM has appeared. Please run driver Verifier. Type verifier into search (bottom LH corner) and Run as administrator.
Driver Verifier is a tool included in Microsoft Windows that replaces the default operating system subroutines with ones that are specifically developed to catch device driver bugs. It monitors Windows kernel-mode drivers and graphics drivers to detect illegal function calls or actions that might corrupt the system. Driver Verifier can subject Windows drivers to a variety of stresses and tests to find improper behaviour. Running Driver Verifier could cause the computer to crash.
crimsom
7 Technologist
•
6.1K Posts
0
October 24th, 2020 00:00
How To Run Windows 10 Driver Verifier To Troubleshoot Driver Issues