Hi @TheQ_42 this is a user to user discussion forum and not Dell Support.
The Alienware m17 R4 is a recent release and during the first year of warranty, users have paid for Dell Support. When visiting the Alienware m17 R4 Overview web page, scroll down to more resources and click on Contact Technical Support, to get tech clarification.
Unfortunately the sales literature is invariably not updated and Dell accessories often ignore listing compatibility with Dell in-house products such as the Alienware series, Dell G series, etc. That does not mean that there will be technical problems, but it is prudent to Contact Technical Support.
@TheQ_42 Dell doesn’t even list their OWN Thunderbolt docks as compatible with Alienware systems, probably because none of them can provide the amount of power that Alienware systems are designed to have, because the USB PD spec doesn’t allow that much power. But the fact that Dell doesn’t list something as certified compatible doesn’t necessarily mean it won’t work. If you don’t expect to be able to draw power from your dock, then it should work fine. And to my knowledge even if you buy a Dell dock, Alienware systems still don’t get the required firmware support for being controlled by the Power button on the dock.
This isn't terribly helpful. The documentation, in no way, says that this system is incompatible with Thunderbolt docks. I'm talking about the documentation specific to the system, not the documentation for the docks themselves. Are you telling me they released a laptop without updated documentation? That seems . . . real bad?
Also, I'm aware of the purpose of the community. I was, in part, posting here to see if others were told the same thing, but also to draw attention to the issue because I'm fairly irritated with what I was told.
@TheQ_42 Exactly how do you, or perhaps the tech rep, define "compatible"? If it's "certified by the vendor", then Dell is unlikely to officially certify any third-party products with their systems, especially if they're not even certifying their own equivalent products with this particular system. If it means "the functionality that's expected to work does in fact work", then by that standard you should indeed be able to use Thunderbolt docks with your Alienware system. Again, you won't be able to rely on the dock as a power source, at least not an optimal one, because the system is simply designed for more power than can be pulled over USB-C/TB3. Dell's documentation for the system doesn't indicate that you can charge it via USB-C/TB3, nor will any docks claim that they can provide the amount of power that your Alienware system requires -- because they can't. But apart from that, Thunderbolt docks should indeed work with your system. I've seen several posts from people here using Alienware systems with Dell's WD19TB Thunderbolt dock, for example -- with the caveats that it's not usable as a power source, the dock's Power button doesn't work with that system, and enterprise features like PXE boot and MAC Address Passthrough don't work. Those are the types of things that keep the Alienware system from being officially certified as compatible -- but not everybody cares about those features. Some people just want a dock to be able to connect one or more displays, USB peripherals, and maybe Ethernet and speakers to a single device and have a single cable for all of that connecting to their system. And for that purpose, it seems to work well.
Unfortunately, it is not even slightly uncommon for Dell's sales and support reps to give bad information. I've seen posts here from people who were told by a tech rep that a laptop can only run a 4K external display if it was optioned with a built-in 4K display, or that a laptop could only run external displays at all through a full docking station rather than simple USB-C display adapters. I realize that's frustrating and that it might be nice if tech reps simply said, "I don't know" when they didn't know the answer rather than making something up, but that apparently isn't the world we live in.
I have an m17 R4 and am currently using a Caldigit TS3 Plus, mostly without issue.
I was getting DRIVER_VERIFIER_DMA_VIOLATION BSODs on occasion when waking from sleep but made a registry tweak I found on Google search and so far, 10 days in the BSODs have stopped.
I was flat out told that non-Dell Thunderbolt docks were incompatible (more than once on the same call), which implies that they either will not work, or will damage my system.
Since my system ALSO had a failing Thunderbolt 3 port, the context also implies that it was MY fault for using a non-Dell dock in my Thunderbolt port.
I also clearly told the rep that this particular dock does not attempt to deliver power to the system, and I wasn't using it (or trying to use it) for that purpose.
So, to review, in my specific case, I said "I'm using a Thunderbolt 3 dock from a reputable company (Seagate) to plug things in, but NOT to provide power to the laptop."
I was then told, in turn, by the rep that "Non-Dell docks are incompatible with this system. You cannot use a non-Dell dock."
So, either the rep was incorrect (plausible), or he has that in his script somewhere (meaning it's true) and it's not in the documentation for the M17 R4 laptop anywhere. Both are bad, and both need to be brought to the attention to Dell so that people like myself who might justifiably believe that a Thunderbolt Dock will work with a Thunderbolt port don't get angry and go ranting on Dell community forums about it.
Side note: I'm well aware that consumer docks don't deliver 330W of power.
@TheQ_42 The empirical evidence of Alienware owners successfully using Dell and non-Dell Thunderbolt docks, as well as empirical evidence of Dell sales/support reps saying things to customers that is flatly wrong, suggests that the rep was incorrect in this case. I understand that's frustrating and that it can certainly be confusing to customers who don't pursue answers any further after hearing from an official Dell source that ideally would be completely correct and reliable. But at least for now, that seems to be the world we live in, and given that Dell reps are typically expected to have broad knowledge of a lot of products rather than in-depth knowledge of specific products, I wouldn't anticipate that changing. And that's before even considering realities such as certain systems having quirks that cause setups that SHOULD work to not ACTULLY work. The XPS 13 9350 for example supports USB-C displays, but apparently doesn't work with Dell's own USB-C displays. Dell finally published a KB article about that (link), but before that was published, reps were assuring customers that Dell's USB-C displays would work with their XPS 13 9350 -- because they should have. Except they didn't. And in fact, the XPS 15 9550 and Precision 5510 are affected by the same issue described in that KB, but that wasn't discovered until later, and Dell never updated the KB to mention that. So as you can imagine, I've seen people with those systems post about problems using Dell USB-C displays they had bought after Dell assured them they would work.
And then there have been cases where Dell's own spec documentation contains errors, which makes it rather more difficult for reps to provide accurate information even if they correctly understand the technical ramifications of various specs on whether a given setup will work -- which many of them don't because they don't often have that level of technical expertise.
Or another possibility may simply be a "lost in translation" issue. It is true that Thunderbolt docks are not supported on Alienware systems. So maybe that would have been a better choice than "not compatible".
But whatever the reason or the cause, Dell's reps are not always the last word on whether a given setup will or will not work. It would be nice if they could be relied on to be, but that's not what we have, and while that may improve over time, years of experience working with them as an IT professional and seeing what others have been told by them suggests to me that they will likely never become perfect sources of information.
See if others were being told the same thing and/or if others were having issues with their Thunderbolt ports or docks.
Bring attention to the issue so that Dell could address it. They can't fix problems in their documentation and/or support scripts if no one tells them that there are errors.
I wasn't just popping on here to be a jerk. In my experience, bringing things like this to a public forum tends to get attention to the problem sooner. I don't want someone else who buys a $3000 laptop to have the same frustrating experience I have had when that experience could be avoided.
I'm now on my 2nd Alienware M17 R4 which also had to have a motherboard replacement because it bricked itself when I installed the VBIOS update. I share this context up front because, man, I've never had this much trouble with a laptop.
I'm reviving this specific thread because my Thunderbolt 3 port has apparently decided to die (again), which is what led me to my first replacement system back in March '21. Up until today, the Thunderbolt port has worked perfectly, and I've used it daily for work (and most days for some gaming) without any issues at all, and was quite happy about that.
Now I'm concerned that there is some sort of design issue with this machine? 2 bad ports exhibiting the same behavior on the same laptop seems awfully coincidental (I also purchased a new dock just to see if it was my dock going bad--and reinstalled with a clean install Windows after reinstalling all of the drivers).
So, the revive reason: anyone else having issues with the Thunderbolt port on these machines? I appreciated all of the insights/comments last time, and the community appears to be alive and well, so I thought I'd post again to see.
Just thought I'd post again as a follow-up: after talking to support I'm getting (another) replacement motherboard. I do want to say, it was the most painless support call I've had to date with Dell, and I hope it's a sign of continuous improvement. I'm very happy with the quick service and how quickly the part shipped after call.
Still, I think there's gotta be a design flaw on this board with two bad Thunderbolt ports . . . maybe it's been fixed in a later revision? Anyway--didn't want it all doom and gloom from my last post.
DELL-Chris M
Community Manager
•
56.9K Posts
0
March 14th, 2022 08:00
Update = After verifying ownership and completing troubleshooting, a DELL-Cares agent setup service.
crimsom
7 Technologist
•
6.1K Posts
0
March 19th, 2021 16:00
Hi @TheQ_42 this is a user to user discussion forum and not Dell Support.
The Alienware m17 R4 is a recent release and during the first year of warranty, users have paid for Dell Support. When visiting the Alienware m17 R4 Overview web page, scroll down to more resources and click on Contact Technical Support, to get tech clarification.
Unfortunately the sales literature is invariably not updated and Dell accessories often ignore listing compatibility with Dell in-house products such as the Alienware series, Dell G series, etc. That does not mean that there will be technical problems, but it is prudent to Contact Technical Support.
jphughan
9 Legend
•
14K Posts
2
March 20th, 2021 06:00
@TheQ_42 Dell doesn’t even list their OWN Thunderbolt docks as compatible with Alienware systems, probably because none of them can provide the amount of power that Alienware systems are designed to have, because the USB PD spec doesn’t allow that much power. But the fact that Dell doesn’t list something as certified compatible doesn’t necessarily mean it won’t work. If you don’t expect to be able to draw power from your dock, then it should work fine. And to my knowledge even if you buy a Dell dock, Alienware systems still don’t get the required firmware support for being controlled by the Power button on the dock.
TheQ_42
6 Posts
0
March 20th, 2021 11:00
This isn't terribly helpful. The documentation, in no way, says that this system is incompatible with Thunderbolt docks. I'm talking about the documentation specific to the system, not the documentation for the docks themselves. Are you telling me they released a laptop without updated documentation? That seems . . . real bad?
Also, I'm aware of the purpose of the community. I was, in part, posting here to see if others were told the same thing, but also to draw attention to the issue because I'm fairly irritated with what I was told.
jphughan
9 Legend
•
14K Posts
3
March 20th, 2021 12:00
@TheQ_42 Exactly how do you, or perhaps the tech rep, define "compatible"? If it's "certified by the vendor", then Dell is unlikely to officially certify any third-party products with their systems, especially if they're not even certifying their own equivalent products with this particular system. If it means "the functionality that's expected to work does in fact work", then by that standard you should indeed be able to use Thunderbolt docks with your Alienware system. Again, you won't be able to rely on the dock as a power source, at least not an optimal one, because the system is simply designed for more power than can be pulled over USB-C/TB3. Dell's documentation for the system doesn't indicate that you can charge it via USB-C/TB3, nor will any docks claim that they can provide the amount of power that your Alienware system requires -- because they can't. But apart from that, Thunderbolt docks should indeed work with your system. I've seen several posts from people here using Alienware systems with Dell's WD19TB Thunderbolt dock, for example -- with the caveats that it's not usable as a power source, the dock's Power button doesn't work with that system, and enterprise features like PXE boot and MAC Address Passthrough don't work. Those are the types of things that keep the Alienware system from being officially certified as compatible -- but not everybody cares about those features. Some people just want a dock to be able to connect one or more displays, USB peripherals, and maybe Ethernet and speakers to a single device and have a single cable for all of that connecting to their system. And for that purpose, it seems to work well.
Unfortunately, it is not even slightly uncommon for Dell's sales and support reps to give bad information. I've seen posts here from people who were told by a tech rep that a laptop can only run a 4K external display if it was optioned with a built-in 4K display, or that a laptop could only run external displays at all through a full docking station rather than simple USB-C display adapters. I realize that's frustrating and that it might be nice if tech reps simply said, "I don't know" when they didn't know the answer rather than making something up, but that apparently isn't the world we live in.
BabyOx147
1 Rookie
•
17 Posts
1
March 20th, 2021 17:00
I have an m17 R4 and am currently using a Caldigit TS3 Plus, mostly without issue.
I was getting DRIVER_VERIFIER_DMA_VIOLATION BSODs on occasion when waking from sleep but made a registry tweak I found on Google search and so far, 10 days in the BSODs have stopped.
TheQ_42
6 Posts
0
March 22nd, 2021 09:00
I was flat out told that non-Dell Thunderbolt docks were incompatible (more than once on the same call), which implies that they either will not work, or will damage my system.
Since my system ALSO had a failing Thunderbolt 3 port, the context also implies that it was MY fault for using a non-Dell dock in my Thunderbolt port.
I also clearly told the rep that this particular dock does not attempt to deliver power to the system, and I wasn't using it (or trying to use it) for that purpose.
So, to review, in my specific case, I said "I'm using a Thunderbolt 3 dock from a reputable company (Seagate) to plug things in, but NOT to provide power to the laptop."
I was then told, in turn, by the rep that "Non-Dell docks are incompatible with this system. You cannot use a non-Dell dock."
So, either the rep was incorrect (plausible), or he has that in his script somewhere (meaning it's true) and it's not in the documentation for the M17 R4 laptop anywhere. Both are bad, and both need to be brought to the attention to Dell so that people like myself who might justifiably believe that a Thunderbolt Dock will work with a Thunderbolt port don't get angry and go ranting on Dell community forums about it.
Side note: I'm well aware that consumer docks don't deliver 330W of power.
jphughan
9 Legend
•
14K Posts
1
March 22nd, 2021 12:00
@TheQ_42 The empirical evidence of Alienware owners successfully using Dell and non-Dell Thunderbolt docks, as well as empirical evidence of Dell sales/support reps saying things to customers that is flatly wrong, suggests that the rep was incorrect in this case. I understand that's frustrating and that it can certainly be confusing to customers who don't pursue answers any further after hearing from an official Dell source that ideally would be completely correct and reliable. But at least for now, that seems to be the world we live in, and given that Dell reps are typically expected to have broad knowledge of a lot of products rather than in-depth knowledge of specific products, I wouldn't anticipate that changing. And that's before even considering realities such as certain systems having quirks that cause setups that SHOULD work to not ACTULLY work. The XPS 13 9350 for example supports USB-C displays, but apparently doesn't work with Dell's own USB-C displays. Dell finally published a KB article about that (link), but before that was published, reps were assuring customers that Dell's USB-C displays would work with their XPS 13 9350 -- because they should have. Except they didn't. And in fact, the XPS 15 9550 and Precision 5510 are affected by the same issue described in that KB, but that wasn't discovered until later, and Dell never updated the KB to mention that. So as you can imagine, I've seen people with those systems post about problems using Dell USB-C displays they had bought after Dell assured them they would work.
And then there have been cases where Dell's own spec documentation contains errors, which makes it rather more difficult for reps to provide accurate information even if they correctly understand the technical ramifications of various specs on whether a given setup will work -- which many of them don't because they don't often have that level of technical expertise.
Or another possibility may simply be a "lost in translation" issue. It is true that Thunderbolt docks are not supported on Alienware systems. So maybe that would have been a better choice than "not compatible".
But whatever the reason or the cause, Dell's reps are not always the last word on whether a given setup will or will not work. It would be nice if they could be relied on to be, but that's not what we have, and while that may improve over time, years of experience working with them as an IT professional and seeing what others have been told by them suggests to me that they will likely never become perfect sources of information.
TheQ_42
6 Posts
0
March 23rd, 2021 07:00
Well, that's kinda why I posted. I wanted to:
I wasn't just popping on here to be a jerk. In my experience, bringing things like this to a public forum tends to get attention to the problem sooner. I don't want someone else who buys a $3000 laptop to have the same frustrating experience I have had when that experience could be avoided.
TheQ_42
6 Posts
0
January 31st, 2022 14:00
Hi. I'm back.
I'm now on my 2nd Alienware M17 R4 which also had to have a motherboard replacement because it bricked itself when I installed the VBIOS update. I share this context up front because, man, I've never had this much trouble with a laptop.
I'm reviving this specific thread because my Thunderbolt 3 port has apparently decided to die (again), which is what led me to my first replacement system back in March '21. Up until today, the Thunderbolt port has worked perfectly, and I've used it daily for work (and most days for some gaming) without any issues at all, and was quite happy about that.
Now I'm concerned that there is some sort of design issue with this machine? 2 bad ports exhibiting the same behavior on the same laptop seems awfully coincidental (I also purchased a new dock just to see if it was my dock going bad--and reinstalled with a clean install Windows after reinstalling all of the drivers).
So, the revive reason: anyone else having issues with the Thunderbolt port on these machines? I appreciated all of the insights/comments last time, and the community appears to be alive and well, so I thought I'd post again to see.
TheQ_42
6 Posts
0
January 31st, 2022 19:00
Just thought I'd post again as a follow-up: after talking to support I'm getting (another) replacement motherboard. I do want to say, it was the most painless support call I've had to date with Dell, and I hope it's a sign of continuous improvement. I'm very happy with the quick service and how quickly the part shipped after call.
Still, I think there's gotta be a design flaw on this board with two bad Thunderbolt ports . . . maybe it's been fixed in a later revision? Anyway--didn't want it all doom and gloom from my last post.