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13072
March 16th, 2006 20:00
Low Microphone Volume == Ubiquitous Problem
I am another long-time sufferer of the ubiquitous microphone volume problem. In this incarnation, it occurs with my XPS 600 with Creative XiFi option and every mic I can throw at it.
Having tested for 10+ years with 10+ microphones, with 10+ PC's, and all manner of built-in or Sound Blaster sound cards, I can attest to the following in terms of what does and does not work.
By test, I mean the following basic conditions:
1. Speaking at low-normal volume. Not loud or shouting.
2a. Headset mic 0" to 3" from at your lips ..or..
2b. Separate mic 3" to 12" away.
3. Using Windows Recorder or other software to record speach.
4. Sound mixer mic volume set as high as needed (read: MAX)
5. Mic Boost, if available, set as needed (read: ENABLED).
6. Try wiggling or partially withdrawing jack.
7. Tried stereo-mono converter jack (always stopped all sound)
Microphones tested
1. Several Logitech headsets (electret)
2. Several Labtech headsets (electret)
3. Several Plantronics headsets (electret)
4. Sony headset (electret? dynamic?)
5. Several dyanmic (unpowered) mics
6. Several other no name standalone electret mics
7. Creative headset (electret-condenser)
8. A tiny plastic NoName $7 lapel mic with "compatiblity" switch
9. High quality cardoid studio mics (LowZ with and w/o transformer)
PC's Tested
1. HP Pavilion
2. Dell XPS 600
3. Gateway's
4. Several white boxes.
Sound Cards Tested:
1. Various embedded motherboard sound ships
2. Creative Sound Blaster 16
3. Creative Sound Blaster - Audigy II Platinum
4. Creative Sound Blaster - XiFi (Dell XPS)
General Findings (excluding rare exceptions):
1. Almost ALL jacked microphones WILL NOT WORK with MOST PC's.
2. Almost ALL combinations DID provide sound at EXTREMELY LOW volume.
3. Motherboard sound is worst with VERY LOW sound and VERY HIGH noise.
4. Creative cards (and I guess most others) require a mic with an impedance of 600 ohms (or less), very high output (10-100mv), and an electret-condenser sound element powered from a bias voltage applied to the mic plug's "ring" (tubular contact closest to tip). Professional mics, in contrast, only put out about 1-10 mv so any "good" mic suitable for pro use would likely fail.
Also see the following article from Shure, the microphone company for more info:
Rare Exceptions:
There were only 2 exceptions that DID work to SOME degree.
1. The Creative Audigy II Platinum partially work for a short time. It provides a breakout box that fits into a 5.25 bay slot with a built-in line/mic preamp was able to boost mic levels to acceptable levels when its amp volume was set to near max (95%). However, the gain control was VERY finicky. At 0-90% it didn't work. At 95% it seemed to just work ok but with an increasing (albeit smooth and steady) background noise. At 100% it suddenly overloaded. This behavior varied greatly with different mics but the end result was roughly the same. Barely acceptable audio for what was a very high end PC sound card.
Also note that mic input to many Audigy Cards installations began to fail with later updates of XP. Their mic input suddenly started to produce loud crackling noises and became unusable for audio input. Thoughts are that it was related to a subtle change to IRQ handling after later service levels of XP. Creative was never able to fix thats issue, let alone directly acknowledge it. Worse, even though it was only a mic problem, you have to deactivate the entire card so you can use the typically poor motherboard sound chip. So, that was $300 wasted. This problem is well-noted in the public audio conferences. The
Creative XiFi card that Dell provides as an option on recent systems like the XPS is the lower end version of that new audio line without an outboard amp/mixer module, As such, it also fails with very low volume.
2. $7 NoName Wonder --- The Winner???? 
In all that testing over 10+ years on all those PC's, sound cards and microphones, there was ONLY ONE mic that actually worked as expected (actually better). That is, it provided GREAT sensitivity, good response, and little or no noise. It can pick up your voice from 3 FEET at 50% or higher level yet can work within inches of your mouth. About 7 years ago, I found the mic as a cheap endcap special at CompUSA, I think. I was actaully labeled as an electret mic that could work with any system. Who would have thought the label was actually correct! I went back to buy more but they ran out. After copious phone research, I managed to find a local wholesaler who also had it and bought 3 more for friends and family. I'm now down to my last one and hoard it like gold.
You'll see in the picture below that it is small, less than 2", and made to be a lavalier or lapel mic. It also has what the package labeled as a "compatibility" switch with 3 positions (labeled with 1, 2, and 3 bars) to deal with different way sound cards handle electret microphones. Of the 3 positions, it only worked for me in the #3 position (as shown) and did so VERY WELL on ALL PC's and sound card combo's! Regarding other comments about a possible issue with plug shaft length, this unit's plug is identical to all other mics that failed so, that's not it.
So, why can't Logitech, Labtech, Plantronics, and Creative do the same darn thing? Their inability to do what a $7 mic does has cost me perhaps $1,000 of failed attempts and unusable purchases.
About mics and their plugs:
Some refer to mics like the one above as "stereo" and say they converted to mono and were successful or not. They say that because stereo mics have 2 contacts (1 tip and 2 rings). Actually, except for rare designs, single headed mics are almost always mono. However, most use a stereo plug. The purpose of the extra ring is two-fold:
1. Receive "bias" power for the electret mic from a jack that provides it separately.
2. Send the mic's mono output to both channels of stereo input jacks that might have trouble doing so with a single larger ring.
Some input jacks do accept a 2-ring electret mic plug and provide the needed bias voltage on the single larger "mono ring" but most mics I've tested use the 3-contact (tip + 2 rings) method as does my $7 wonder.
I also tried a stereo-mono converter jack but it always stopped ALL sound from the mic.
Why don't makers fix this problem!
Well, as with everything else in our day and age, there's almost no communication between the design, marketing, and support departments. Add to that the fact that VERY FEW CUSTOMERS COMPLAIN! Thank about the following:
1. Very few buyers use the mics in their headsets.
2. Even less buy stand alone mics
3. Many who try to use mics, don't record with them or give up.
4. Many who do use mics are kids who like shouting (laugh)
What to Do?
Unfortunately, there are few solutions with corded mics and headsets. Here are a few:
1. Keep buying, testing, and returning mics that do not work WELL! Perhaps the loss of the returns will get the makers to make a better design!
2. Find a separate electret mic that works like my $7 wonder and tape it to your headset's mic boom and use it rather than the headset mic (ugly plus 2 wires).
3. Use a mic pre-amplifier to boost the mic's signal. You might also use a small mic mixer that has a line output which thus provides a much higher signal.
4. Buy an expensive outboard audio interface like an M-Audio USB audio box. Ulitmately the BEST solution albeit pricey.
5. Try one of the newer USB headsets and/or mics. By using USB as the sole interface, the maker stands a better chance of not messing up because the USB is a clear standard that bypasses any electret power-through-jack issues. The scenario of jack vs. USB is exemplified by the Logitech QuickCam Orbit MP webcam. The webcam unit comes with a built in conference microphone and the package also includes a separate cheap plug in headset. Well, the USB webcam mic is SO SENSITIVE you can whisper 3 feet away but also picks up computer and room noises. This is a clear case of an electret microphone working properly! The included headset, however, fails like all others -- very low volume that is unusable except when talking LOUD. Right! Like we wear headsets at 1 am so we can talk LOUD while others are sleeping.
So, I hope these thoughts help others, assure them they are not alone, and highlight what is pretty much an industry rip off in that jacked electret mics simply DO NOT WORK with most PC's -- be they on a headset or standalone.
Message Edited by XOR42 on 03-16-200605:21 PM
Message Edited by XOR42 on 05-09-200611:20 AM
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DW-USA
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May 9th, 2006 01:00
XOR42
4 Posts
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May 9th, 2006 12:00
Alas, the mic is truly a no-name brand. It came in a simple blister pack and was hanging on an "end cap" (display at the end of an aisle) at a local CompUSA. The blister pack had a generic name which I don't remember. Could have been a CompUSA rebrand. The unit itself is as pictured with no markings whatsoever.
However, at $7.95, one can try several such models as they find them. A key differentiator of this model is that it has a switch that attempts to match the mic's characteristics to the unit it is plugged into without explaining the settings other than "compatibility switch". The switch is simply marked with roman 1, 2, and 3. For me, it has always only worked in one of its 3 postitions and has worked very well. I can only surmise the switch selects whether to use phantom power and/or to adjust the impedance.
You can return it if it doesn't work. I made many such trips until I found one that worked. I urge anyone to refuse top pay for products that don't work and make full use of the retailer's return policies. That's another reason I still like to shop at brick and mortor stores for questionable items that may be problematic. I can drive back the same day and return goods that don't work. I did just that yesterday wiith my 20th attempt to find a mic that works. This time, it was a USB headset from Logitech. See my next message on that subject.
XOR42
4 Posts
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May 9th, 2006 15:00
The Continuing Saga of Failed Mic's (and USB)
I tried once more to find a mic that works with PC's. This time, I tried a USB headset with mic, the Logitech® Premium USB Headset 350 at $49.95, based on my previous supposition that a USB headset bypasses the analog input circuits of a sound card, using its own digital input and driver.
The result was "close but no cigar". On the plus side, the unit ACTUALLY WORKED WELL!!!! The headset was a little tight and unpleasant on my full-sized head but the earphone sound quality was very good and mic worked quite well (not excellent but very good). I could talk at normal volume and it picked up reasonably well with good clarity and without noise. It would have sufficed for medium quality sound track narration, audio note taking, and certainly for gaming which has no quality requirement. I would have kept the unit except for a MAJOR USB PROBLEM which I eventually learned about ...
It turns out that Logitech USB headsets (and probably most others) are NOT COMPATIBLE with sound cards. That is, they operate completely independent of sound cards, acting like their own sound system. You can use USB headsets to listen to files sound files, effects generated by software, games, web chats, or VOIP software such as Skype. But THEY CANNOT play sound from the inputs of other audio devices such as a microphone, music player, voice recorder, or anything else plugged into a sound card's input jacks.
I couldn't believe it but it makes sense since the USB headsets I checked out do not have any type of control panel. The Logitech uses a generic USB Windows driver without any settings or software whatsoever. It is thus impossible to select the input used to feed the USB headset. This is REALLY LAME!!!! It always only plays the Windows standard sound out channel. That means sound files and software but NOT live inputs from your sound card or other sound input devices.
So, I remain very frustrated yet mildly hopeful. My hope is that there might be a USB headset (now or in the future) that has its own advanced driver which allows for the selection of the input that is used to feed the headset. It might then allow selection of the sound card's audio (ASIO, eg) as the input to the headset - just like all my audio applications can do. For example, my sound players, video editors, and audio programs all have settings to set the audio input as being from my sound card, web cam mic, video capture card, or even the USB headset's mic while I had it. USB head set driver's need the same option to select what sound source to use to feed the earphones.
So, do NOT buy a USB headset if you want to listen to or monitor anything whose input is via your sound card's input jacks. That excludes all types of audio capture or the listening to external devices or mics. The only exception would be if the USB headset specifically has its own driver that will allow you to select what input to use for feeding the headset.
My next foray may be to try one of the M-Audio outboard USB audio mixer/preamps. They are external boxes with many inputs and outputs that connect to the PC via USB. I am hoping they have a more elaborate PC driver/control program that would allow the selection of other PC inputs such as from sound cards and capture cards to be routed back to the external box. If so, then one could connect a headset's mic to the mic input (with preamp) to boost the heck out of it. Conversely, the earphones of the headset could then plug into the earphone jack of the external unit. But, again, only if M-Audio's USB connection will accept other PC hardware inputs. This would make for a complete external audio center and allow use of headsets with mics, professional lo-Z mics for high quality narrations or singing, and even instruments to plug in, like my guitar. They have units with what appear to be the right features for $139 and $229. I'll have to research their models more closely and see if I can review whatever driver/controller software they provide for PC input vectoring. Wheh!
[flame on]
The problem remains that most "premium" PC sound cards like Creative Labs are high-priced but tragically incomplete due to their ineffective mic support. This results in a user with a high-priced sound card having to purchase another expensive add-on (like M-Audio) simply to provide the mic supprt the sound card maker claimed their card provided! Card makers!! Fix your card's mic input with a proper preamp (on the card) that boosts the mic input at least 10-100 times (over and above "mic boost" your cards provide). You know how to do this. Creative did with their Audigy and Xifi models by adding their (expensive) internal/external break out boxes that include the missing preamp. Profit motives aside, if your cards have a mic input, then darn it, make them work with 9 out of 10 mics, not 1 out of 100!
[flame off]
The sage continues ...