M6600 SSD w/ Dual HDD RAID array

Just as an update. I can image a single drive in or out of a RAID configuration without any problems. Just seems to be the SSD and RAID array config that is getting screwy. I've got a thread going over on Microsoft's TechNet as well just to hit this from both angles.

Microsoft is aware of issues with ConfigMgr and multiple drive scenarios. I don't think they have a KB article, but it would be good to open a ticket with them also, to see if they have any insight.

Thanks Warren. Is there anything else you have seen or heard in regards to this? How does Dell handle sending out systems with that configuration? Image the system with a single SSD and then add the array latter? That is assuming Dell uses SCCM to provision their machines. If I recall correctly, I think you have a master image and just rapidly copy it to hard drives. In any case, any thoughts as to why the M6500 works without issue and the M600 is being quirky? Thanks again!

Our factory provisioning process is not SCCM so the issue wouldn't be seen in the factory. We use SCCM for internal systems. I'm surprised that it works on an M6500 because I've seen this issue every time I've had a 2 drive scenario (Latitude Z600, and Precision workstations). If the second drive is to be a data drive, then disabling the drive before imaging would be the workaround.

@Warren - Would you recommend something like using cctk to turn off certain SATA ports, imaging, and then re-enabling them? I could see that as a possible work around.

I also noticed that sata ports in the bios are SATA-0, SATA-3, SATA-4 and SATA-5. If I turn them all off, I still have my ssd and a hard drive showning. Why are 1 and 2 missing? Is it save to do a cctk --sata1=off and --sata2=off? to try and get JUST the SSD to show up?

I'm not sure why SATA1 and SATA2 are missing, maybe it's extra ports that aren't used on the M6600. I don't think it would hurt to attempt to turn them all off. Let me know how it works for you.

Well, didn't get a chance to try disabling SATA1 and 2, but have found a different way to get this machine imaged properly. Still not a prefered solution though.

1. Have system in RAID mode
2. Create RAID array with the two spinning disks.
3. Leave the mini-card SSD alone.
4. Diabled SATA-0
5. Image the machine directing the OS to disk 1 partition 1. (Instead of the normal disk 0 partition 1)
6. Once the entire image process is done, go back into the BIOS and enable SATA-0.
7. Boot into Windows and the array will be there.

I tried using the cctk commandline to re-enable SATA-0 before the last reboot of the image job, but that step failed for some reason...not sure. The biggest drawback is having to go into the BIOS and do this before you image or re-image the machine. Still hoping for a real solution to come along (Got you guys, Technet and a case open with Microsoft).

thanks for the update. I'll send this info to the dev team for review.

@Warren. One other thing that I am trying to run down is how the SATA channels are setup on the M6500 vs the M6600. I've been doing some looking around and it appears that Windows 7 (possibly other version too) will always place the system files on the FIRST drive on the system. So, in this case whichever device is connected as SATA-0 will get system files on it. I check on the the M6500, but it does not have the ability to turn different SATA devices on or off in the BIOS like you can with the M6600.

My thoughts are that maybe the mini-ssd port in the M6500 IS SATA-0 and that is why it works without issue. However, with the M6600 the mini-ssd card is definitely not SATA-0. It is either SATA-1 or SATA-2...but not sure which. This would also explain why disabling SATA-0 (and breaking up the array) allows it to image on the mini-ssd. In essence, since the first SATA device is not there, it picks the next one.

Is there any chance you could ask the dev team about the SATA layout on the M6500 vs the M6600?

My thought is to use the cctk to remove the RAID array from being bootable. That or I need to see about changing the boot order in general such that the SSD comes before the RAID array. In either case, I'm still working on the details here.

The important thing is it finished the entire task sequence properly and it is booting off the SSD. I still need to clean up the boot files that get created on the RAID drive.

This is a work around, not a solution and it still needs some massaging to get working. Still thinking about how to properly handle an in-place re-image.

@Warren - First, thanks for following up with the devs in regards to the M6500 vs the M6600. Please let me know if the change can be made into the M6600 BIOS or as an optional BIOS patch.

Here is the current workaround that appears to be working.

Setup
Mini-SSD as OS, RAID Array of two drives as data drive.

BIOS Setup
Both the Mini-SSD and the RAID Array need to be bootable devices

Depending on your Task Sequence, you may or may not have to do this. I have a reboot after I set the Dell BIOS configuration so the proper settings are active. IF this is done, you will need to leave the RAID array as bootable or else the Task Sequence will be unable to continue. This is since it will stage the boot media on the RAID array and it needs to boot off it to continue.

Now for the good part, currently you need to Partiion Disk 1 and have it save the drive letter as a variable. I used OSPART. Make it as bootable as well (Even though this doesn't appear to be honored...)
In the Apply Operating Step, set the Destination to "Logical Drive letter stored in a variable". For the variable name put in OSPART.

In the smsts.log you will see that even though you tell it to mark the SSD as the boot drive, it still applies the bootmgr to the C: drive (which is the RAID array since it reports as Disk 0). The line showing this is: Executing command line: "bcdboot.exe" D:\Windows /s C:\ /l en-US

If that C:\ was D:\ I wouldn't be having any issues....

Immediately after this, I added a my own custom step to create the bootmgr on the correct drive (the SSD). Create a new step using a run command line. The command I rus is:
cmd /c bcdboot.exe %OSPART%\Windows /s %OSPART%\ /l en-US /v

After the machine reboots, I current have to uncheck the box allowing it to boot of the RAID array.

ArmitageID,

Thanks for the follow-up details. The dev teams are still discussing this scenario. I'll respond as soon as I hear from them.

Glad to hear that you have a workaround for the time being.

we got the same problem over here in germany with these boxes and the dell support being as helpless as we are. any news ?

@ok-it
Since I've been on the inside of this I can tell you where it is from my perspective. I've received notification from Dell's ACE team that due to architectural differences the same modifications made to the M6500 BIOS will not work for the M6600. Therefore, the best bet is to utilize the work around that I have created. They are actively engaged with Microsoft with a bug report to see if Microsoft will accept responsibility for the issue and release a fix. Other than that there is nothing else I can provide in regards to information. I'm hoping something positive will come out of this.

hi all,

I too have recently bought an M6600 and have two standalone SSD drives on it, an older generation Corsair (approx 250mb/sec) and a newer generation OCZ (approx 550mb/sec).  When I have the drives set up individually, no RAID, I get the performance close to the above specs.  However, when I did a RAID0 setup in the BIOS, hoping to increase both total capacity (under one drive letter) as well as increase speeds, the IO went to approx 100-400mb/sec overall, depending on the operation (read/write random/sequential).  Sure, the space has doubled, but the performance is much less.

Is that what should be expected?  less performance than the most performant SSD?  I was under the impression that the performance would be better than any of the standalone SSDs  -- could someone clarify and/or speak from experience?  

thx much for any thoughts,

Cos

P.S.  The way I did the RAID0 installation was, I took an initial full backup of the system, changed the BIOS setup of the drives to RAID0, installed Windows7 64bit brand new, at least for the initial phase, and then did a restore from backup of only the active partition (and not the MBR and the first clusters/partition).  I could not get the RAID0 set up any other way!