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March 20th, 2019 21:00
Inspiron 3670, switching SATA controller from AHCI to RAID
I am setting up a new Inspiron 3670, i5-8400, 8 Gb Ram, 1 Tb hdd + 16 Gb Optane Memory cache. I installed a 500 Gb Samsung 860 Evo ssd which is now the boot drive and am using the hdd as the data drive. In reading about ssd drive optimization, I have seen that AHCI mode is recommended for the SATA controller configuration because it allows for hot swapping and native command queuing, resulting in faster drive response times. However, the SATA controller configuration on the computer was set for RAID by Dell, even though there is no disk array configured. In chatting with an Intel representative, I learned that the Optane Memory is not compatible with AHCI, although he didn’t explain (and I don’t understand) why that’s the case. In doing some more research I learned that RAID actually enables AHCI, and if there is no arraying of disks, the SATA controller commands should be passed from RAID to AHCI. But I’m not sure if that means that all of the processes enabled by AHCI are also enabled under the RAID configuration (I do see that TRIM is enabled however). I have come across procedures for switching the SATA controller configuration from RAID to AHCI (without reinstalling Windows 10), and although some have successfully made the switch, it seems many others have run into an unbootable state (with blue or black screens) after switching and then coming out of safe mode to boot into Windows. The problem often seems to be either a lack of the AHCI driver or, for those who downloaded the Intel Rapid Storage Technology driver set before making the switch, an inability of the Bios to connect with the driver (although I understand that in Windows 10 the connection should be made automatically on rebooting if the AHCI driver is installed). But if the Optane Memory cache on the hdd requires RAID, then although AHCI might be enhancing the ssd performance, it might inhibit the hdd performance. I have also seen mention that the ssd speed improvements with AHCI are not so much greater than performance in the RAID configuration. So, I would appreciate any advice as to whether or not it makes sense, or would be worth it, to make the switch from RAID to AHCI (with or without reinstalling the OS). Would it make sense if I didn’t have the Optane Memory? Or should I just leave well enough alone (if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it)?
Tesla1856
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March 20th, 2019 22:00
Due to items 1-4 above, I would not mess with it. :Smile:
It's generally not advised to switch it (on a live system) because you often end-up with a non-bootable system.
There is this program called Crystal DiskMark. It would be interesting to see benchmark on the Optane-cached spinning HDD. I heard they now allow it to be a non-bootable (data) drive ... but no way to verify because I don't do Oplame.
RoHe
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March 21st, 2019 12:00
Intel says Optane is now compatible with a secondary hard drive (SSD primary drive). And there's at least one thread on Dell's forum about setting that up. Don't remember the PC model so search for that thread.
BIOS is set to RAID with Optane because it acts like an array. If you change to AHCI, Optane won't work, and you may have to reinstall Windows.
If it ain't broke, don't break it. :Wink:
And let me guess, you used Internet Explorer to make your OP and ended up with one giant unformatted paragraph. You may want to use Firefox or Chrome with this platform to avoid that problem. And -yes- that's a pain...
Ceepyou
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March 21st, 2019 19:00
Ceepyou
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March 21st, 2019 19:00
That's interesting. Is that why Optane Memory requires RAID, because it is configured as an array of two drives on the Optane memory chip? If it aint broke, don't break it is good advice!
Actually, no I wrote the post in Word and kept it as one long paragraph only because I thought it was a little long, and would have taken up even more room had I used more paragraphs. But maybe that would have been easier on the eyes! :Geeked:
Tesla1856
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March 21st, 2019 19:00
1. Because Intel-RAID-caching has historically, always been lame.
2. Because data still has to be fetched from slow HDD
3. I would rather use that one M.2/PCIe slot for a real NVMe SSD .
Ceepyou
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March 22nd, 2019 06:00
I've learned from this article (https://www.howtogeek.com/317294/what-is-intel-optane-memory/) that the Optane Memory card connects to the primary OS drive, in my case the ssd I installed. I had originally thought it was wired to the hdd. It would have supercharged the hdd had that been the boot drive. But according to the article, I now have an enhanced ssd (at least I hope so) and an hdd data drive operating at normal speeds. The system is pretty snappy, so I'm fine with the current RAID configuration. Had I been better informed, I would have dispensed with the Optane card (which was a bonus given the sale price of the computer), installed Windows 10 in AHCI mode, and gone with 12 Gb of Ram. But I can lways add that if necessary.
Ceepyou
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March 22nd, 2019 06:00
Take a look at the benchmark tests in the article https://www.dell.com/community/forums/replypage/board-id/Inspiron-desktops/message-id/11573. Not so lame. But I take your point, it's not a an NVMe SSD..
Tesla1856
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March 22nd, 2019 12:00
- dispensed with the Optane card
- Buy and install a M.2/PCIe/NVMe SSD (instead of a SATA-based one)
- installed Windows 10 in AHCI mode
... Yes, that is what I recommend and try to lead people to (if they search forum or ask before they start buying things).
Ceepyou
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April 1st, 2019 08:00
I downloaded Crystal DiskMark onto my C: drive (ssd) and ran it on both the ssd and secondary hdd. I had know prior knowledge of the program, so may not have optimized settings. The computer had a number of programs open and a number of tabs open in Microsoft Edge, but I just ran the results in that state. I had taken a look at the link provided by RoHe above (https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000023991/memory-and-storage/intel-optane-m...) and found to my surprise that according to Device Manager, the 1 Tb secondary hdd appeared to be supported by the Optane Memory cache, despite my reading and being told by Dell that it only supports the boot drive. (And without my installing any of the interfaces that I thought were required to direct the cache from the boot drive to the secondary drive, although it might have happened through an earlier Window update, which I have since turned off in order to do manually.) So I thought it would be interesting (as did Tesla1856 earlier in this thread) to try Crystal Diskmark. Here are the results doing 5 repeats, 1 Gb file size, all numbers in [MB/s] C: (12% full) Seq Q32T1 Read 555.5, Write 507.4; 4KiB Q8T8 Read 371.0, Write 311.5; 4KiB Q32T1 Read 195.8, Write 182.4; 4KiB Q1T1 Read 34.27, Write 68.41. Same settings for the D: drive (26% full) Seq Q32T1 Read 940.6, Write 181.2; 4KiB Q8T8 Read 932.3, Write 183.7; 4KiB Q32T1 Read 315.4, Write 183.3; 4KiBQ1T1 Read 97.1, Writec63.08. So interestingly, the hdd is faster on all the Read tests, and although slower for the first two Write tests, seems comparable for the second two. Don't these results confirm that the Optane Memory cache is indeed enhancing hdd performance? And if so, and if the cache requires the RAID Sata controller setting (as opposed to AHCI), shouldn't I just leave the settings as they are?
RoHe
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April 1st, 2019 10:00
I vote to " just leave the settings as they are"...
lacro
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June 17th, 2019 07:00
This thread is interesting. I Have a newly purchased 3670 that did not come with Optane memory, just a 1TB HDD. I filled the empty M.2 slot with a Samsung 970 EVO Plus 250 Gb M.2 NVMe drive as a boot drive, and cloned the old HDD to the new SSD. Upon looking in the BIOS, I discovered the SATA controller is set Raid ON even thought the PC came with just the single 1TB HDD?
I tried to use Samsung Magician software, and tried to download the Samsung driver for the new SSD from Samsung site, but neither work (doesn't see it) even though the drive is working fine. On the Samsung forum I learned that SATA controller should be set to AHCI for Samsung Magician to see the drive.
Currently I am having problems changing locations of user folders from the SSD to the 1TB HDD data drive that I wiped clean to use for data storage. I wonder if these problems are related to the SATA controller set to RAID ON, and why did it come from Dell that way??
BIOS has a dire warning if changing the controller to AHCI so I am not inclined to do so. I don't want to reinstall windows 10.
Any suggestions?
speedstep
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June 17th, 2019 10:00
You cant change user folders from a cloned drive.
You have to remove one or the other drive and install with the other not physically there. Neither Dell nor microsoft support cloning.
Sysprep and Reseal is not cloning.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/314828/the-microsoft-policy-for-disk-duplication-of-windows-installations
Ceepyou
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June 17th, 2019 19:00
Lacro, the only reason I stayed with RAID was that the Optane Memory card supporting the hdd required it. Since you don't have Optane Memory, there is no reason to stay with RAID, especially since Samsung Magician requires AHCI. I had thought that Dell installed Windows 10 in the RAID mode because of the Optane Memory, but from your experience it seems that Dell uses RAID mode in the Inspiron 3670 (and likely many other models) as their default setting.
In light of the problems you're having changing folder locations and the information provided by speedstep, it appears you will need to 1) set up a recovery flash drive 2) clean and reformat your ssd 3) using your recovery drive, enter the bios and set the sata controller for AHCI (before reinstallation of Windows 10) 4) reinstall Windows 10 on your ssd. Also, as speedstep mentioned, before reinstallation of the OS, disconnect the data and power cables from your hdd to the motherboard, and connect your ssd to the data port that your hdd had been connected to when it arrived (as I remember, that is data port 0); and of course its power cable. After installing the OS you can then reconnect your hdd to data port 1. Your computer should then recognize your ssd as the C: drive, your hdd as the D: drive, and you should be good to go and have full access to all folders (and be able to move their locations) on both your ssd and hdd. Let us know how it goes.
Since you just purchased your computer, it should be under warranty. Dell should be able to help you with all of the steps above and will walk you through them. If you need more details on any of these steps, let me know and I will do my best to provide them.
lacro
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June 18th, 2019 09:00
I had hoped I didn't have to reinstall windows. My SSD is in the M.2 NVMe slot so I can't connect it to the data port the HDD is connected. I can disconnect the HDD though. I am really cautious about setting the SATA controller to AHCI even though the default shown in the BIOS is ACHI. The warning has me nervous.
If I reinstall windows, I will lose all programs, driver updates and settings, right? Should I use Microsoft Recovery drive or Dells recovery drive?
Ceepyou
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June 18th, 2019 21:00
Sorry, I forgot that you have the M.2 NVMe, so it doesn't connect to the data port. So, yes, just disconnect the hdd before the reinstallation of Windows. There is a way to try to change from RAID to AHCI mode without reinstalling windows which has worked for some, but not for others who have made the attempt. It's not for the faint of heart and can lead to a no boot situation. However, if you have your recovery drive, you will be able to reinstall Windows 10 if necessary. Here are a few links for related procedures.
https://www.tenforums.com/customization/104898-switch-raid-ahci.html,
https://superuser.com/questions/1280141/switch-raid-to-ahci-without-reinstalling-windows-10
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/22631-enable-ahci-windows-8-windows-10-after-installation.html
This is the procedure I was going to use if I had tried to switch (distilled from the many related procedures I looked at):
2. Enable Safe Boot (minimal)
3. Reboot into UEFI/BIOS and change from RAID to AHCI
4. Boot up into safe mode
5. Run MSCONFIG and disable Safe Boot.
6. Reboot
I used the Dell SupportAssist Recovery Tools to prepare the Dell recovery drive for installing Windows 10 onto my ssd, which worked beautifully. Yes, if you reinstall Windows, you will need to reinstall programs and driver updates. It's really not so bad.