You name it - the wiring can be whatever the ODM of the system chose to use, the cable dimensions can be unique, and there are more types of connector that you can name. Desktop systems range from using all standard cables (home-built or custom-builder systems) to multiple proprietary wiring harnesses and nonstandard power supplies and connector type and wiring (present on most pre-built systems from Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc. these days).
It used to be that automobiles used standard headlights and appliances used standard motors and wiring as well - no longer; it's common to need to replace complete assemblies to fix a burned out bulb or a failed motor.
Notebooks are designed around a 3-year lifespan -- any longer than that and the manufacturer no longer stocks parts. You can easily find parts for most popular systems in the EBay or refurbished-parts arena for most systems, up to a point.
The system you've asked about is worth a total of about $30-50 complete and working -- so there's not much incentive to keep new parts around. Can you make a cable that work? Yes, but unless your time is worth less than the $5 the part costs, it's simpler to simply buy a replacement on EBay.
Does the wire layout tend to be proprietary, such that it wouldn't be possible to obtain bulk ribbon cable to use to create a specific cable?
If the cables are model-specific, what do service people do if they are unable to locate such a cable?
I haven't owned a desktop for many years. Do any branded desktops do the same, using proprietary cables/connectors that are difficult to replace? It used to be that all desktop internal cables were standard, varying only by length, so if you needed one it was easy to find or make one.
Yes, I know the system wouldn't have a high resale price (though higher than $30-$50 here in Canada, if working). But, the owner can't afford a new laptop. If I can get things working better with a bit of effort, it's worth it to help him.
You wrote: "Can you make a cable that work? Yes, but unless your time is worth less than the $5 the part costs, it's simpler to simply buy a replacement on EBay." + another $14 shipping. But, I found the same part at a Texas supplier for about $10 including mailing.
I'm thinking about situations where I might need more than one cable for an old computer, or the needed cables are not available. How would you make a cable like the one I showed? Is bulk cable, or lengths of cable, available with appropriate wire/connector layouts?
The cable is standard flat-conductor -- finding it, particularly without buying it in bulk may be difficult unless you have a source in southeast China.
That becomes a big issue with repairs -- pieces of cable (or small components) that cost literally pennies can wind up either completely unavailable or available only for excessive cost.
You can try one of the big electronics distributors (Newark, Digikey, Mouser) or even Graybar -- but you likely would find the need to buy far more cable than you would ever use.
With just about any sub-$1000 notebook now a throwaway post-warranty due to the highly integrated nature of a system board these days, and with the other end of the market (the gaming notebook one) now having mainboards cost Apple prices to replace (i.e., $1,000+ for a board replacement) -- more and more technology is becoming disposable all the time.
The cable is standard flat-conductor -- finding it, particularly without buying it in bulk may be difficult unless you have a source in southeast China.
I wondered if repair shops might keep that in bulk for when they need to make a replacement cable. But, I checked with a reputable shop here, and they don't.
Desktop systems range from using all standard cables (home-built or custom-builder systems) to multiple proprietary wiring harnesses and nonstandard power supplies and connector type and wiring (present on most pre-built systems from Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc. these days).
On a branded desktop system (e.g. Dell or competitor), what happens if a proprietary cable/connector/part needs to be replaced and is no longer available? Can the connectors or parts be removed from the motherboard and replaced with standard or common connectors and cables? Or, is it possible not to have a solution, as can happen with older laptops that no longer have parts available?
Use of proprietary components seems to be an argument in favour of home-built or custom/local-built systems using standard and easily-replaceable components.
Like anything using proprietary parts that are NLA, it depends on the impact to the system operation. Many of the pre-built desktops from the big names (Dell included) now use mainboards that won't fit into other than the chassis they ship in -- and use proprietary wiring, power supplies, etc. So it's either expensive parts replacement (it takes a long time for refurbished parts to completely disappear from the marketplace) or a complete system replacement.
It's not an issue unique to computers - it's becoming common with automobiles. Once a module becomes NLA, if it's critical to vehicle operation, the car becomes a total loss. Just look at any one of the cars these days having a completely LCD display system in the dashboard -- what are the chances that in 10-20 years, these parts will still be available?
Building custom cables is one thing -- designing a complete aftermarket dash display is quite another. Yes, repair is possible - but with highly integrated displays depending on hundreds or more discrete, under-$1.00 components not available to the repair industry, we've likely reached a point where in 20-30 years, today's cars will not be tomorrow's classics -- they will have been long recycled into something else.
Yes, I agree that the issue is much broader than the computer business. However, with cars, large appliances, etc., we don't have a choice other than to buy from a big brand. With desktop computers, we at least have the option to buy a locally-built computer that uses readily-available non-proprietary parts, or even to assembly one ourselves.
ejn63
10 Elder
•
30.7K Posts
0
June 23rd, 2022 12:00
Most often, the parts are not just Dell-proprietary, but model-specific. This cable is part of an assembly that costs just $5.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/233168622215
ejn63
10 Elder
•
30.7K Posts
1
June 23rd, 2022 13:00
You name it - the wiring can be whatever the ODM of the system chose to use, the cable dimensions can be unique, and there are more types of connector that you can name. Desktop systems range from using all standard cables (home-built or custom-builder systems) to multiple proprietary wiring harnesses and nonstandard power supplies and connector type and wiring (present on most pre-built systems from Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc. these days).
It used to be that automobiles used standard headlights and appliances used standard motors and wiring as well - no longer; it's common to need to replace complete assemblies to fix a burned out bulb or a failed motor.
Notebooks are designed around a 3-year lifespan -- any longer than that and the manufacturer no longer stocks parts. You can easily find parts for most popular systems in the EBay or refurbished-parts arena for most systems, up to a point.
The system you've asked about is worth a total of about $30-50 complete and working -- so there's not much incentive to keep new parts around. Can you make a cable that work? Yes, but unless your time is worth less than the $5 the part costs, it's simpler to simply buy a replacement on EBay.
filbert
4 Operator
•
1.8K Posts
0
June 23rd, 2022 13:00
Does the wire layout tend to be proprietary, such that it wouldn't be possible to obtain bulk ribbon cable to use to create a specific cable?
If the cables are model-specific, what do service people do if they are unable to locate such a cable?
I haven't owned a desktop for many years. Do any branded desktops do the same, using proprietary cables/connectors that are difficult to replace? It used to be that all desktop internal cables were standard, varying only by length, so if you needed one it was easy to find or make one.
filbert
4 Operator
•
1.8K Posts
0
June 23rd, 2022 14:00
That's good information, thanks.
Yes, I know the system wouldn't have a high resale price (though higher than $30-$50 here in Canada, if working). But, the owner can't afford a new laptop. If I can get things working better with a bit of effort, it's worth it to help him.
You wrote: "Can you make a cable that work? Yes, but unless your time is worth less than the $5 the part costs, it's simpler to simply buy a replacement on EBay."
+ another $14 shipping. But, I found the same part at a Texas supplier for about $10 including mailing.
I'm thinking about situations where I might need more than one cable for an old computer, or the needed cables are not available. How would you make a cable like the one I showed? Is bulk cable, or lengths of cable, available with appropriate wire/connector layouts?
ejn63
10 Elder
•
30.7K Posts
0
June 23rd, 2022 15:00
The cable is standard flat-conductor -- finding it, particularly without buying it in bulk may be difficult unless you have a source in southeast China.
That becomes a big issue with repairs -- pieces of cable (or small components) that cost literally pennies can wind up either completely unavailable or available only for excessive cost.
You can try one of the big electronics distributors (Newark, Digikey, Mouser) or even Graybar -- but you likely would find the need to buy far more cable than you would ever use.
With just about any sub-$1000 notebook now a throwaway post-warranty due to the highly integrated nature of a system board these days, and with the other end of the market (the gaming notebook one) now having mainboards cost Apple prices to replace (i.e., $1,000+ for a board replacement) -- more and more technology is becoming disposable all the time.
filbert
4 Operator
•
1.8K Posts
0
June 23rd, 2022 18:00
I wondered if repair shops might keep that in bulk for when they need to make a replacement cable. But, I checked with a reputable shop here, and they don't.
Sadly, that is true.
filbert
4 Operator
•
1.8K Posts
0
July 8th, 2022 09:00
On a branded desktop system (e.g. Dell or competitor), what happens if a proprietary cable/connector/part needs to be replaced and is no longer available? Can the connectors or parts be removed from the motherboard and replaced with standard or common connectors and cables? Or, is it possible not to have a solution, as can happen with older laptops that no longer have parts available?
Use of proprietary components seems to be an argument in favour of home-built or custom/local-built systems using standard and easily-replaceable components.
ejn63
10 Elder
•
30.7K Posts
0
July 8th, 2022 10:00
Like anything using proprietary parts that are NLA, it depends on the impact to the system operation. Many of the pre-built desktops from the big names (Dell included) now use mainboards that won't fit into other than the chassis they ship in -- and use proprietary wiring, power supplies, etc. So it's either expensive parts replacement (it takes a long time for refurbished parts to completely disappear from the marketplace) or a complete system replacement.
It's not an issue unique to computers - it's becoming common with automobiles. Once a module becomes NLA, if it's critical to vehicle operation, the car becomes a total loss. Just look at any one of the cars these days having a completely LCD display system in the dashboard -- what are the chances that in 10-20 years, these parts will still be available?
Building custom cables is one thing -- designing a complete aftermarket dash display is quite another. Yes, repair is possible - but with highly integrated displays depending on hundreds or more discrete, under-$1.00 components not available to the repair industry, we've likely reached a point where in 20-30 years, today's cars will not be tomorrow's classics -- they will have been long recycled into something else.
filbert
4 Operator
•
1.8K Posts
0
July 8th, 2022 11:00
Yes, I agree that the issue is much broader than the computer business. However, with cars, large appliances, etc., we don't have a choice other than to buy from a big brand. With desktop computers, we at least have the option to buy a locally-built computer that uses readily-available non-proprietary parts, or even to assembly one ourselves.