Undervolt my CPU? This is a brand new laptop. I don't mind altering settings but this suggestion sounds like drastic action to me. The 2 links you provided are not for the faint-hearted.
Undervolt my CPU? This is a brand new laptop. I don't mind altering settings but this suggestion sounds like drastic action to me. The 2 links you provided are not for the faint-hearted.
Undervolting your CPU is a much less drastic solution than deliberately disabling a thermal protection mechanism that keeps your hardware from getting damaged....
Very few laptops in this era can run prolonged periods without throttling. The ones that can are bulky in order to accommodate larger cooling solutions and often more expensive, like the Precision 15 models.
@jphughan wrote: Undervolting your CPU is a much less drastic solution than deliberately disabling a thermal protection mechanism that keeps your hardware from getting damaged
I'm sure you're right but I have no intention of "disabling a thermal protection mechanism" either - whatever that is.
All I'm looking for is a 'simple' solution to getting a new external sound card to function on a brand new Inspiron. I don't wish to plough through pages of technical instructions (unless, perhaps, they were produced by Dell) but nothing like that should be necessary with modern off the shelf 'plug & play' equipment like this.
Thank you for responding though - and I should have thanked @The Adder too.
You're going to need to upgrade to better hardware -- what you have doesn't have the ability to run the CPU flat out at high speed - it's a lower-end consumer-grade notebook.
Most companies selling mobile audio workstations sell what amount to gaming-class or workstation-class systems with the cooling systems required to sustain high CPU throughput. The other option is to use a desktop system that has good cooling (i.e., NOT a small-footprint or an all-in-one system).
You're going to need to upgrade to better hardware
Thank you for taking time to make your suggestion but, sorry, it is such an unhelpful and unnecessary suggestion.
As I've already said this is a brand new machine (3 weeks) and I see no need to upgrade it at all. I have borrowed an old Creative Labs Extigy sound card and that is functioning fine (although it shouldn't be). We can always spend more money (if we have it) on better equipment.
But my research into selecting a laptop suitable as a digital audio workstation (DAW) found that the specification for this and other similar Inspirons matched the requirements for what was needed. This laptop replaced my old faithful Dell Dimension XP workhorse.
It may well be I end up putting the iTrack Solo on eBay and purchasing a new Creative Labs sound card but I feel sure there is a simple solution out there. I'm waiting on Focusrite before that decision is made.
The request from FocusRite was vague, but it sounds like they are talking about Intel SpeedStep. However, if you turn-off SpeedStep on a laptop, it might get hot easy and Sleep/Wake (and other things) might not work so well any more.
By selecting a laptop for DAW work, you are already limiting yourself.
Then, you selected a entry-level consumer laptop to do your DAW work. The only Dell laptop I would trust to this job is a Dell Precision Mobile Workstation. They go on-sale every year (as the new models are released).
One thought in addition to the above: Since this suggestion came from the results of using a tool called LatencyMon, is it possible that when they said to disable throttling, they meant disabling SpeedStep? When you use this software, do you hear your fans running at full speed? If so, then that suggests the temperatures are getting too high and throttling is occurring, in which case my second post immediately above applies -- and I don't know why they would have suggested that you'd find a way to disable that in the BIOS, because that simply isn't offered, and that restriction is not unique to Dell systems by any means. If on the other hand the system is quiet when you use the software but it still isn't working properly, then try disabling SpeedStep. That is the mechanism by which the CPU will constantly change its clock speed according to workload. That CAN be disabled in the BIOS, at least on most systems, and if you disable it, the CPU runs at its maximum clock speed at all times, unless some other factor like throttling prevents that. If you're seeing latency related to all of these clock speed switches, then disabling SpeedStep may resolve that, but you should expect a battery life reduction.
Ricky you're trying to have it both ways. You're saying you don't want to disable thermal protection mechanisms but just want to disable throttling. You're saying you don't want to purchase a better system but want to run this application properly. Both of those statements are inherently contradictory. Throttling occurs when the CPU temperature and/or internal ambient system temperature reach a level that the system is programmed to consider "too high". Throttling performance, i.e. forcing the CPU to run at a lower than normal clock speed, is how the system gets those temperatures to drop, because a slower CPU doesn't generate as much heat. The system will keep the CPU throttled until temperatures reach a defined safe level, and then allow full performance again until temperatures reach that "too high" threshold again. These temperature thresholds are defined in the system firmware. Occasionally a BIOS update will change them, but they are deliberately not user-configurable because otherwise a lot of people would simply disable throttling as you seem to want to do and then wonder why their system got damaged from running at too high a temperature for too long.
So as both I and now ejn63 have told you, you have the wrong system for your intended usage. The fact that it's 3 weeks old is irrelevant. I have an XPS 15 that's a higher-end system than yours and it still throttles if I try to play intensive games for too long -- because it simply isn't designed to run maxed out for prolonged periods. If that's what you need, then you need a better system. You can keep insisting that you don't want to disable thermal protection mechanisms and don't want to buy a better system, but that you still want your software to work, but you'll be asking for the impossible.
Most audio "cards" these days are mostly software - not hardware. And you can't compare a desktop system (with ample cooling) to a notebook -- even an old one to a new one. Within the last year I configured a digital audio workstation for a friend - using a much higher-end interface than the ones you've mentioned. It was a Clevo 17" system with a desktop processor in it - and inside of these are massive heatsink assemblies. Game for hours - encode digital audio for days - they're built for gaming, and with the exception of the GPU, what games well, encodes digital audio well. They don't overheat or throttle. That's what you find in 17" Alienware systems -- minus the desktop CPU; Alienware/Dell and everyone else ceded that market to Clevo generations ago - they're essentially the only true name in high performance mobiles now - and no, they don't cost $500-700 like an Inspiron; figure more like $2,000+. They also don't weigh 5-7 pounds -- you can easily double that, due to the thermal cooling mass inside. Simple thermodynamics: the faster the performance, the more heat is generated. The more heat, the larger the heatsink(s) need to be. You just can't get a high performance, no compromise mobile digital workstation in a consumer-grade (or even a higher-end ultralight) system.
If you recall I posed this question following Focusrite's suggestion after they asked me to run LatencyMon.
Part of the LatencyMon report states:-
Your system appears to be having trouble handling real-time audio and other tasks. You are likely to experience buffer underruns appearing as drop outs, clicks or pops. One or more DPC routines that belong to a driver running in your system appear to be executing for too long. At least one detected problem appears to be network related. In case you are using a WLAN adapter, try disabling it to get better results. One problem may be related to power management, disable CPU throttling settings in Control Panel and BIOS setup. Check for BIOS updates.
Thus Focusrite's request to disable CPU Throttling.
Now, I know absolutely nothing about CPU Throttling other than what I have just about grasped from the comments above. Likewise nothing about thermal protection mechanisms. And, to be honest, I don't really see the need to learn about them.
My comment regarding it being only 3 weeks old relates to the fact that I've just forked out around £750 ($1000) and not in a mood to upgrade it.
I may have mislead you when I mentioned DAW. I am not planning to use in a recording studio but for basic 2 channel recording, mixing and editing in the same way I used my Dell Dimension 3000 under XP for many years. This Inspiron is massively more powerful than the Dimension so I expect it to perform perfectly adequately for song writing.
I have hardly heard the fan running on this Inspiron unlike the older N5110 we also have. (And the fan on the Dimension was deafening on occasions - especially if I had more than a few Firefox windows open.)
I shall look into SpeedStep tomorrow and see where that takes me. But unless Focusrite come up with something real soon, and I think it's they who should be addressing the issue, I shall give up and either keep the Extigy or try a later model from Creative Labs. Incidently, before I purchased the Inspiron I spoke to Dell who told me I could achieve what I wished to do with an external sound card. So I have no reason to doubt this machine's ability.
This has become very much above my head but I do value your attempts to explain things to me.
1. At least one detected problem appears to be network related. In case you are using a WLAN adapter, try disabling it to get better results.
2. One problem may be related to power management, disable CPU throttling settings in Control Panel and BIOS setup. Check for BIOS updates.
Thus Focusrite's request to disable CPU Throttling.
I shall look into SpeedStep tomorrow and see where that takes me.
1. Well, actually LatencyMon detected a network problem.
2. Maybe. Actually, in this context, in Power Profiles, I would set the laptop to high performance and make sure both Min and Max Speeds on processor or both at 100%.
That way, can leave SpeedStep on in BIOS but the CPU won't throttle in Windows at all. If still a problem, you can try disabling in BIOS.
Baldricky
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May 17th, 2020 04:00
Although set this as 'Solved', I decided not to pursue this any further.
The Adder
2 Intern
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154 Posts
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October 1st, 2018 03:00
Hi Rick,
You are
The problem is that the CPU is running hot very quickly at this moment and will result in CPU throttling and losing CPU power.
An option is to undervolt your CPU, with the effect: less power consumption, less heat and less CPU throttling!
There are two very good guides on Notebookcheck.net:
Intel Extreme Tuning Utility (XTU) Undervolting Guide
The ThrottleStop Guide 2017
Baldricky
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October 2nd, 2018 16:00
Undervolt my CPU? This is a brand new laptop. I don't mind altering settings but this suggestion sounds like drastic action to me. The 2 links you provided are not for the faint-hearted.
jphughan
9 Legend
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14K Posts
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October 3rd, 2018 05:00
Undervolting your CPU is a much less drastic solution than deliberately disabling a thermal protection mechanism that keeps your hardware from getting damaged....
Very few laptops in this era can run prolonged periods without throttling. The ones that can are bulky in order to accommodate larger cooling solutions and often more expensive, like the Precision 15 models.
Baldricky
1 Rookie
•
23 Posts
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October 3rd, 2018 11:00
I'm sure you're right but I have no intention of "disabling a thermal protection mechanism" either - whatever that is.
All I'm looking for is a 'simple' solution to getting a new external sound card to function on a brand new Inspiron. I don't wish to plough through pages of technical instructions (unless, perhaps, they were produced by Dell) but nothing like that should be necessary with modern off the shelf 'plug & play' equipment like this.
Thank you for responding though - and I should have thanked @The Adder too.
Regards
Rick
ejn63
10 Elder
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30.7K Posts
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October 3rd, 2018 11:00
You're going to need to upgrade to better hardware -- what you have doesn't have the ability to run the CPU flat out at high speed - it's a lower-end consumer-grade notebook.
Most companies selling mobile audio workstations sell what amount to gaming-class or workstation-class systems with the cooling systems required to sustain high CPU throughput. The other option is to use a desktop system that has good cooling (i.e., NOT a small-footprint or an all-in-one system).
Baldricky
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23 Posts
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October 3rd, 2018 12:00
Thank you for taking time to make your suggestion but, sorry, it is such an unhelpful and unnecessary suggestion.
As I've already said this is a brand new machine (3 weeks) and I see no need to upgrade it at all. I have borrowed an old Creative Labs Extigy sound card and that is functioning fine (although it shouldn't be). We can always spend more money (if we have it) on better equipment.
But my research into selecting a laptop suitable as a digital audio workstation (DAW) found that the specification for this and other similar Inspirons matched the requirements for what was needed. This laptop replaced my old faithful Dell Dimension XP workhorse.
It may well be I end up putting the iTrack Solo on eBay and purchasing a new Creative Labs sound card but I feel sure there is a simple solution out there. I'm waiting on Focusrite before that decision is made.
Regards
Tesla1856
8 Wizard
•
17.4K Posts
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October 3rd, 2018 13:00
The request from FocusRite was vague, but it sounds like they are talking about Intel SpeedStep. However, if you turn-off SpeedStep on a laptop, it might get hot easy and Sleep/Wake (and other things) might not work so well any more.
By selecting a laptop for DAW work, you are already limiting yourself.
Then, you selected a entry-level consumer laptop to do your DAW work. The only Dell laptop I would trust to this job is a Dell Precision Mobile Workstation. They go on-sale every year (as the new models are released).
jphughan
9 Legend
•
14K Posts
0
October 3rd, 2018 13:00
One thought in addition to the above: Since this suggestion came from the results of using a tool called LatencyMon, is it possible that when they said to disable throttling, they meant disabling SpeedStep? When you use this software, do you hear your fans running at full speed? If so, then that suggests the temperatures are getting too high and throttling is occurring, in which case my second post immediately above applies -- and I don't know why they would have suggested that you'd find a way to disable that in the BIOS, because that simply isn't offered, and that restriction is not unique to Dell systems by any means. If on the other hand the system is quiet when you use the software but it still isn't working properly, then try disabling SpeedStep. That is the mechanism by which the CPU will constantly change its clock speed according to workload. That CAN be disabled in the BIOS, at least on most systems, and if you disable it, the CPU runs at its maximum clock speed at all times, unless some other factor like throttling prevents that. If you're seeing latency related to all of these clock speed switches, then disabling SpeedStep may resolve that, but you should expect a battery life reduction.
jphughan
9 Legend
•
14K Posts
1
October 3rd, 2018 13:00
Ricky you're trying to have it both ways. You're saying you don't want to disable thermal protection mechanisms but just want to disable throttling. You're saying you don't want to purchase a better system but want to run this application properly. Both of those statements are inherently contradictory. Throttling occurs when the CPU temperature and/or internal ambient system temperature reach a level that the system is programmed to consider "too high". Throttling performance, i.e. forcing the CPU to run at a lower than normal clock speed, is how the system gets those temperatures to drop, because a slower CPU doesn't generate as much heat. The system will keep the CPU throttled until temperatures reach a defined safe level, and then allow full performance again until temperatures reach that "too high" threshold again. These temperature thresholds are defined in the system firmware. Occasionally a BIOS update will change them, but they are deliberately not user-configurable because otherwise a lot of people would simply disable throttling as you seem to want to do and then wonder why their system got damaged from running at too high a temperature for too long.
So as both I and now ejn63 have told you, you have the wrong system for your intended usage. The fact that it's 3 weeks old is irrelevant. I have an XPS 15 that's a higher-end system than yours and it still throttles if I try to play intensive games for too long -- because it simply isn't designed to run maxed out for prolonged periods. If that's what you need, then you need a better system. You can keep insisting that you don't want to disable thermal protection mechanisms and don't want to buy a better system, but that you still want your software to work, but you'll be asking for the impossible.
ejn63
10 Elder
•
30.7K Posts
0
October 3rd, 2018 15:00
Most audio "cards" these days are mostly software - not hardware. And you can't compare a desktop system (with ample cooling) to a notebook -- even an old one to a new one. Within the last year I configured a digital audio workstation for a friend - using a much higher-end interface than the ones you've mentioned. It was a Clevo 17" system with a desktop processor in it - and inside of these are massive heatsink assemblies. Game for hours - encode digital audio for days - they're built for gaming, and with the exception of the GPU, what games well, encodes digital audio well. They don't overheat or throttle. That's what you find in 17" Alienware systems -- minus the desktop CPU; Alienware/Dell and everyone else ceded that market to Clevo generations ago - they're essentially the only true name in high performance mobiles now - and no, they don't cost $500-700 like an Inspiron; figure more like $2,000+. They also don't weigh 5-7 pounds -- you can easily double that, due to the thermal cooling mass inside. Simple thermodynamics: the faster the performance, the more heat is generated. The more heat, the larger the heatsink(s) need to be. You just can't get a high performance, no compromise mobile digital workstation in a consumer-grade (or even a higher-end ultralight) system.
Baldricky
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23 Posts
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October 3rd, 2018 17:00
@jphughan @Tesla1856 @ejn63
Again, thanks for your replies.
If you recall I posed this question following Focusrite's suggestion after they asked me to run LatencyMon.
Part of the LatencyMon report states:-
Your system appears to be having trouble handling real-time audio and other tasks. You are likely to experience buffer underruns appearing as drop outs, clicks or pops. One or more DPC routines that belong to a driver running in your system appear to be executing for too long. At least one detected problem appears to be network related. In case you are using a WLAN adapter, try disabling it to get better results. One problem may be related to power management, disable CPU throttling settings in Control Panel and BIOS setup. Check for BIOS updates.
Thus Focusrite's request to disable CPU Throttling.
Now, I know absolutely nothing about CPU Throttling other than what I have just about grasped from the comments above. Likewise nothing about thermal protection mechanisms. And, to be honest, I don't really see the need to learn about them.
My comment regarding it being only 3 weeks old relates to the fact that I've just forked out around £750 ($1000) and not in a mood to upgrade it.
I may have mislead you when I mentioned DAW. I am not planning to use in a recording studio but for basic 2 channel recording, mixing and editing in the same way I used my Dell Dimension 3000 under XP for many years. This Inspiron is massively more powerful than the Dimension so I expect it to perform perfectly adequately for song writing.
I have hardly heard the fan running on this Inspiron unlike the older N5110 we also have. (And the fan on the Dimension was deafening on occasions - especially if I had more than a few Firefox windows open.)
I shall look into SpeedStep tomorrow and see where that takes me. But unless Focusrite come up with something real soon, and I think it's they who should be addressing the issue, I shall give up and either keep the Extigy or try a later model from Creative Labs. Incidently, before I purchased the Inspiron I spoke to Dell who told me I could achieve what I wished to do with an external sound card. So I have no reason to doubt this machine's ability.
This has become very much above my head but I do value your attempts to explain things to me.
Thanks again.
Rick
Tesla1856
8 Wizard
•
17.4K Posts
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October 3rd, 2018 22:00
1. Well, actually LatencyMon detected a network problem.
2. Maybe. Actually, in this context, in Power Profiles, I would set the laptop to high performance and make sure both Min and Max Speeds on processor or both at 100%.
That way, can leave SpeedStep on in BIOS but the CPU won't throttle in Windows at all. If still a problem, you can try disabling in BIOS.
Kathy95
1 Message
0
June 1st, 2020 19:00
Disable Speedstep improve my Dell laptop performance by great deal. From opening of google chrome take nearly 40 sec to now just 3 to 5 sec.