Inspiron e1505 BIOS users beware

Question

I am running an e1505 with the latest (A12) BIOS which does not correctly implement the features I need for the hardware/software I have. My problem is with the expresscard slot. Or more precisely, with the pci-express bus. The BIOS does not implement the _OSC method by which kernel drivers can hotplug pci-express devices.

I am running Linux, with 2.6.19.1 kernel version, and I have been in contact with the intel engineer which maintains the pci-express hotplug support. He has specifically determined, and Dell has even admitted to me in chat and phone support, that the BIOS does not implement the features necessary for the hotplug support that the hardware supports.

This is complete Dell, this is not what I wanted when I bought the hardware. Sure, maybe XP does work, but that is because it does not use the correct method because XP does not natively know anything about pci-express. However, Vista specifically _does_ use the correct _OSC method in order to hotplug pci-express devices (aka many expresscard devices). If you don't believe me, go read http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/bus/pci/BIOS_HotPlugPCIe.mspx which is a very good whitepaper.

If there is any engineer, or anyone else at Dell who can possibly help with this, please, give me an email, or reply to this with your email. This is a blight upon the otherwise excellent hardware compatability of this laptop.

george71 · Answer

By this do you mean that if you plug a dell mobile broadband card that it wont work because of this bios  ?

Drizzt321 · Answer

I do not have one of those cards so I cannot try it, but if it is a pci-express device this problem will apply. If you use WinXP there is no chance that you will be affected, since WinXP doesn't use the method described; it hacks around the fact that it doesn't know really anything about pci-express bus. If you use Vista, or are planning on it, there is a good chance you will be affected. Unless of course the Vista developers kept the WinXP method around as a fallback. Of course, if you use Linux, or any other non-Microsoft OS than you almost certaintly be affected since I'm going to guess that it will use the correct method of handling hotplug.

Now I am not saying that there is no way to use the card. It depends on the situation, did you plug the card in before you boot or after the system is up and running. The problem is where you want to plug the card in while the system is up and running.

Drizzt321 · Answer

If you look at my previous posts, I am talking about the pci-express portion of the expresscard slot. _not_ usb, or bluetooth, or wifi, or anything else. Pci-express.

That being said, if you read the microsoft whitepaper at: http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/bus/pci/BIOS_HotPlugPCIe.mspx

Now, to be specific, I am running linux. Yea, whatever, it isn't officially supported by Dell, now bugger off. If my system is up and running, and I insert my expresscard (2 port sata card) which runs on the pci-express bus, I get nothing. My system does not 'see' the card, because the BIOS does not include the necessary function call for my operating system to tell it to release the resources so my operating system can control them, instead of the BIOS.

This is also the method that Vista uses, but _not_ the method that XP uses. The difference is that XP does not natively know anything about the PCI-Express bus, so it implements a pretty workaround. Vista, along with Linux, use the correct method to tell the BIOS to release control of the bus to the operating system.

Does this explain more clearly what I am talking about?

Mr_bleu · Answer

I have no problem using my card reader, any usb device including my wireless mouse and my 40 gig usb hdd.  I'm running Xp and suffer no problems hot plugging.  http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/945gm/945gm_diagram.htm  Are you whining just to 'hear' yourself talk?  We have similar notebooks, what problems are you having with your express card slot?   'My problem is with the expresscard slot. '     Just curious to know exactly what you're having problems with as far as hot plugging goes.

Mr_bleu · Answer

I bet ya have a rough time not remembering to plug the card in before ya boot the kernel...........and don't ya think microsft'll come up with an update for vista (maybe AFTER it's released?)

Drizzt321 · Answer

So if I boot up my system. And I find that after working for an hour I have data on the external drive I didn't expect to use, and I want to, I can't without rebooting and completely interrupting what I was doing. This is not about Microsoft, this is about Dell not implementing the correct ACPI BIOS function call. And Microsoft should not have to change the behavior of Vista in order to not follow the standard. The published standard is to do the PCI Express hotplug a certain way. So, therefor, Dell should follow and allow for the proper function of the standards.

Drizzt321 · Answer

I have already tried the acpiphp driver, which does not work. And I have verified that my hardware fully supports hotplug.

Mr_bleu · Answer

Inspiron 6400/E1505 / Red Hat Linux 9.0 / English

"Now, to be specific, I am running linux. Yea, whatever, it isn't officially supported by Dell"...............hmm, red hat unix 9.0? red hat dos 9.0? looks like linux 9.0

Inspiron 6400/E1505 / Red Hat Linux 8.0 / English

Inspiron 6400/E1505 / Novell SuSE Linux ES 9 / English

Inspiron 6400/E1505 / Novell SuSE Linux ES 10 / English

Inspiron 6400/E1505 / Red Hat Enterprise Linux 3 / English

Mr_bleu · Answer

http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-newbie@vger.kernel.org/msg06793.html

" It may be that your BIOS does
not allow native hotplug for pcie, in which case you need to be using
the acpiphp driver instead of the pciehp driver. You could just try
modprobing acpiphp and see if this will handle the hotplug events. A
recent version of lspci (which understands pcie) will tell you as well
if pcie hotplug capability is supported (lspci -vv)."

Mr_bleu · Answer

http://support.us.dell.com/support/downloads/download.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=gen&releaseid=R142139&formatcnt=1&libid=0&fileid=190043

Fixes and Enhancements

1. Improve Express Card support for Vista.
2. PCI Compliance enhancement for Vista.

If they added it for the 1705's ..........

Drizzt321 · Answer

Redhat 8/9 (what they call Linux 8/9) is quite old, and I don't know if they maintain it at all anymore, since they stopped putting out a free version and spun it off into the Fedora project.

Beyond that, I don't run Redhat or Suse at all. Going further, even if I call techsupport, they have no clue what I am talking about 99% of them time when I say I run Linux. They usually have heard of it somewhere, but don't know anything more than that it exists. And they don't publish any drivers, as far as I can remember when I checked, for any distribution of linux, so in my view point they don't really support it. They just have some business support unit a few people for those who pay money for support. I might be wrong about that last part, but thats how I view it from my perspective.

Mr_bleu · Answer

http://support.us.dell.com/support/downloads/download.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=gen&releaseid=R142139&formatcnt=1&libid=0&fileid=190043

Fixes and Enhancements

1. Improve Express Card support for Vista.
2. PCI Compliance enhancement for Vista.

That looks like a fix for Vista........................wasn't that part of your initial complaint.

Drizzt321 · Answer

Well, if you look a little closer that BIOS is not for the e1505. Now, if Dell goes on the record to say I should flash with that BIOS and that if anything happens they'll fix whatever for free, I'll go ahead and flash it. But, failing that, I won't. I also checked, and found that there is nothing newer than the A12 version for the e1505, so nothing new on that front.

And it wasn't exactly a complaint that Vista is supposed to use that specific ACPI function, it was more of letting people know since Vista is supposed to be the Next Big Thing(tm) that maybe they'll fix it for Vista, and end up fixing it for me as a by product.

Arabian · Answer

I have the same problems with the ACPI, Dell doesn't use the ACPI standards at all.

The fan doesn't run while I use latest stable FreeBSD 6.2, with ac lines and with battery.

Following the standards is a good thing always.

Check this thread too about it http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=insp_bios&message.id=40372

Drizzt321 · Answer

Regarding the fan control, you might want to check out the i8k module from Linux. That has some work-arounds which will allow you to use the fan controls. I haven't actually looked at the code, but it does work. Under linux the fan will power on as necessary. Otherwise, you're absolutely correct. It'd be nice if Dell were to implement and use all the correct ACPI features that it should.

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Inspiron e1505 BIOS users beware

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