@dp004i wrote:
I noticed the same thing on my monitor - is that normal, or is there a problem?
It is apparently normal for this monitor. I have bought another one since posting this thread and see the same thing on it too. It is running off a Radeon 7000 PCI, using a DVI port.
I think it has something to do with modulation, but I don't know the tech terms for video processing. I see similar checkerboard artifacts on TVs at the store.
I have made the following observations:
1)it tends to be worse when the monitors are cold, and gets less noticable as they warm up.
2) I don't think the crosshatch pattern is being displayed on the screen, ie I don't think the textures are drawn this way and then filled when you stop... rather, I think the eye is perceiving something in the way the monitor outputs any video data to the screen. For example, I can have a static image on the screen and shake my head slightly and see the crosshatch pattern.
3) it is significanly more apparent with certain solid colors, or midtoned textures. One place that I see it is on anandtech forums...go to anandtech.com, go to the forums, and drag the browser window around while keeping your eye on the blue areas near the login boxes.
At this point, I don't know what to do about it because they were too good a deal. Display quality and performance is superb otherwise, but this problem is annoying. I wish there was something we could do about it. I am really surprised there have not been more complaints. Maybe some people are just able to perceive this better than others.
Your observations are identical to mine. The crosshatch pattern is driving me nuts.
I was able to verify that we are not just crazy by using a digital camera to take photos of the screen. At low shutter speeds, the image looks fine. As the shutter speed increases, a diagonal cross-hatch pattern unmistakeably appears. I guess our brains just cause the image to break up with fast movement. A friend of mine couldnt see the effect at all (except in the photos), so it must be individual to each person.
I have pretty much decided that I can't live with it. I am getting constant headaches from my eyes focusing on the pattern instead of the screen. Its too bad because the screen is perfect otherwise.
My question is now whether all LCD monitors using the same LG.Philips panels are affected by the same problem. There just arent that many good 20" panels to choose from, and I dont want to go back to my CRT :/.
Apparently there is some sort of noise which results in very slightly differing brightness in this crosshatch pattern. It may be due to the refresh rate method, it may be due to dithering (although the 2001fp is not supposed to use dithering for its colorspace rendition), it may be due to power supply issues. See the pictures in the above thread for more detail.
In any case, I do CAD work for a living and this noise is absolutely unacceptable for a monitor in this price range. I was getting serious eyestrain by lunchtime with the two 2001FP monitors. In comparison, my two 2000FP monitors exhibit a rock-solid image. It took some fighting with Dell to get these returned after my 21-day evaluation period, but on the fourth call-back I got a CSR who took pity on me.
Well, I see that there is still some activity on the subject. I too have taken some photos of the anomaly:
http://www.propertypeek.com
Since my last post I have done more research on the subject and found that this problem not unique to the 2001fp...it seems to be present on other monitors using this particular LG screen. I also read that the severity of the issue may vary depending on manufacture date of the panel (not the manufacture date of the 2001fp).
I don't plan to really do anything about this issue, because I have not found another flat panel that is anywhere close to the price range and capability of this monitor (16ms refresh, size, resolution, pivot). The Viewsonic VP201B is the closest thing, but I believe it is based on the same LG panel as the 2001fp so I couldn't guarantee the problem would go away. It is also around $200 more than what I paid for the 2001fp, so we're talking about $400 more out of pocket and the trouble of having to sell both of them.
Another thing is that I can tell you it's not just this LG panel either. I was in Compusa the other day and played around with a machine running Far Cry. It had a Samsung 15 or 17", and the checkerboarding on it was FREAKING AWFUL! Much much worse than the 2001fp.
So apparently it has to do with the way the signal is processed and/or refreshed in certain flat panels. Therefore I don't think it is a defect...it's just the way it is on some screens.
As far as eye strain and headaches, let me offer some suggestions. I too have occasionally experienced these symptoms but (for me) I am 99% certain it is not because of this checkboard pattern...instead it has been due to the fact that these screens are so huge and bright that your eyes become very tired from focusing a few feet for long periods of time. Of course I am speaking for myself here, but a few things that really helped are:
1) turn down the brightness and contrast, esp if viewing these monitors in a dark room. Staring at overly bright text or lines against a dark background does funny things to your focus. If using DVI, you may be able to turn down contrast in the drivers. People comparing the 2001 to the 2005 have praised the 2005 because it is brighter...how much brighter does it need to be??? It burns a hole in my eyes as it is....
2) Put a light source BEHIND the monitors. If you are using the monitors with no illumination behind them then your eyes are focusing on a single, very bright image for a long time. This problem is accentuated if the entire room is dark. To help this, take a small desklamp, put it behind the monitor(s) and point it to the wall so your eyes have a larger surface area to focus on. Seriously...try this...it makes a BIG difference in reducing eye strain.
3) From a purely ergonomic standpoint, try to remember to look away from the screen every 15-20 minutes and look at a distant object to let your eye muscles relax and stretch the other way for a bit. As a software developer, I totally understand getting buried in what you're doing and you wind up staring at the screen for hours on end. So it's harder to remember to do than it sounds.
4) Another thing to remember is that these screens are huge, and if you play fast FPS games on them and are too close to the screen your brain gets confused because it sees movement from a first-person perspective, but your body isn't moving. So based on the movement on the screen your brain tries to 'predict' the resulting inertia, and when it doesn't happen it screws up your sense of motion and balance (this is why some people get motion sick playing these games, but others - including myself - tend to get headaches). Again #2 above really helped me with this.
I would be interested in the sites where you have found additional information on the checkerboard pixel noise. Could you share them, or share what search terms turned up the most matches on the subject?
Regarding the eyestrain, I have used my two 20" 2000FP monitors for years. They are just as big, and run at the same resolution. As you can see from my pictures, the image is absolutely rock-solid and smooth at my camera's fastest shutter speed. I never experienced eyestrain with the 2000FP. In fact, it was one of the things I loved best about jumping from my 21" CRT monitors to the 2000FP.
DELL-Jesse L
Moderator
•
17.9K Posts
0
December 14th, 2004 17:00
BIOSMonkey,
Thank you for using the Dell Community Forum.
Remove and reinstall the video card drivers into the system to see if that will resolve the issue that you are seeing on the monitor.
dp004i
2 Posts
0
January 21st, 2005 00:00
BIOSMonkey
7 Posts
0
January 21st, 2005 12:00
It is apparently normal for this monitor. I have bought another one since posting this thread and see the same thing on it too. It is running off a Radeon 7000 PCI, using a DVI port.
I think it has something to do with modulation, but I don't know the tech terms for video processing. I see similar checkerboard artifacts on TVs at the store.
I have made the following observations:
1)it tends to be worse when the monitors are cold, and gets less noticable as they warm up.
2) I don't think the crosshatch pattern is being displayed on the screen, ie I don't think the textures are drawn this way and then filled when you stop... rather, I think the eye is perceiving something in the way the monitor outputs any video data to the screen. For example, I can have a static image on the screen and shake my head slightly and see the crosshatch pattern.
3) it is significanly more apparent with certain solid colors, or midtoned textures. One place that I see it is on anandtech forums...go to anandtech.com, go to the forums, and drag the browser window around while keeping your eye on the blue areas near the login boxes.
At this point, I don't know what to do about it because they were too good a deal. Display quality and performance is superb otherwise, but this problem is annoying. I wish there was something we could do about it. I am really surprised there have not been more complaints. Maybe some people are just able to perceive this better than others.
wombat778
1 Message
0
January 21st, 2005 20:00
BIOSMonkey:
Your observations are identical to mine. The crosshatch pattern is driving me nuts.
I was able to verify that we are not just crazy by using a digital camera to take photos of the screen. At low shutter speeds, the image looks fine. As the shutter speed increases, a diagonal cross-hatch pattern unmistakeably appears. I guess our brains just cause the image to break up with fast movement. A friend of mine couldnt see the effect at all (except in the photos), so it must be individual to each person.
I have pretty much decided that I can't live with it. I am getting constant headaches from my eyes focusing on the pattern instead of the screen. Its too bad because the screen is perfect otherwise.
My question is now whether all LCD monitors using the same LG.Philips panels are affected by the same problem. There just arent that many good 20" panels to choose from, and I dont want to go back to my CRT :/.
chrispitude
13 Posts
0
February 6th, 2005 13:00
BIOSMonkey
7 Posts
0
February 6th, 2005 15:00
http://www.propertypeek.com
Since my last post I have done more research on the subject and found that this problem not unique to the 2001fp...it seems to be present on other monitors using this particular LG screen. I also read that the severity of the issue may vary depending on manufacture date of the panel (not the manufacture date of the 2001fp).
I don't plan to really do anything about this issue, because I have not found another flat panel that is anywhere close to the price range and capability of this monitor (16ms refresh, size, resolution, pivot). The Viewsonic VP201B is the closest thing, but I believe it is based on the same LG panel as the 2001fp so I couldn't guarantee the problem would go away. It is also around $200 more than what I paid for the 2001fp, so we're talking about $400 more out of pocket and the trouble of having to sell both of them.
Another thing is that I can tell you it's not just this LG panel either. I was in Compusa the other day and played around with a machine running Far Cry. It had a Samsung 15 or 17", and the checkerboarding on it was FREAKING AWFUL! Much much worse than the 2001fp.
So apparently it has to do with the way the signal is processed and/or refreshed in certain flat panels. Therefore I don't think it is a defect...it's just the way it is on some screens.
As far as eye strain and headaches, let me offer some suggestions. I too have occasionally experienced these symptoms but (for me) I am 99% certain it is not because of this checkboard pattern...instead it has been due to the fact that these screens are so huge and bright that your eyes become very tired from focusing a few feet for long periods of time. Of course I am speaking for myself here, but a few things that really helped are:
1) turn down the brightness and contrast, esp if viewing these monitors in a dark room. Staring at overly bright text or lines against a dark background does funny things to your focus. If using DVI, you may be able to turn down contrast in the drivers. People comparing the 2001 to the 2005 have praised the 2005 because it is brighter...how much brighter does it need to be??? It burns a hole in my eyes as it is....
2) Put a light source BEHIND the monitors. If you are using the monitors with no illumination behind them then your eyes are focusing on a single, very bright image for a long time. This problem is accentuated if the entire room is dark. To help this, take a small desklamp, put it behind the monitor(s) and point it to the wall so your eyes have a larger surface area to focus on. Seriously...try this...it makes a BIG difference in reducing eye strain.
3) From a purely ergonomic standpoint, try to remember to look away from the screen every 15-20 minutes and look at a distant object to let your eye muscles relax and stretch the other way for a bit. As a software developer, I totally understand getting buried in what you're doing and you wind up staring at the screen for hours on end. So it's harder to remember to do than it sounds.
4) Another thing to remember is that these screens are huge, and if you play fast FPS games on them and are too close to the screen your brain gets confused because it sees movement from a first-person perspective, but your body isn't moving. So based on the movement on the screen your brain tries to 'predict' the resulting inertia, and when it doesn't happen it screws up your sense of motion and balance (this is why some people get motion sick playing these games, but others - including myself - tend to get headaches). Again #2 above really helped me with this.
chrispitude
13 Posts
0
February 6th, 2005 17:00