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U2713H - sRGB photo displayed in AdobeRGB (CAL1) differs from sRGB (CAL2)
Hi all,
I calibrated the Monitor using Dell Calibration solution 1.5.3, and created two color profiles. One is CAL1 set to 120, space AdobeRGB, and the other CAL2 sRGB also set to 120.
The intention was to switch between the profiles for photos ready for web vs photos ready for printing. Unfortunately, I discovered this would not be such any easy task. First, when I switched between CAL1 and CAL2 I saw the difference in saturation, and there was some difference in colors' hue. I thought all was good, but following scenario makes me think not everything is fine.
When I export a photo in LR to jpeg (sRGB) it looks pretty much the same as the one displayed in Develop module in LR (Monitor set to CAL1, AdobeRGB). I would say the difference in that scenario is not so obvious i.e. there was not much color clipping. However, when I switch to CAL2 the photo suddenly becomes dull.
Shouldn't the photo exported to jpeg as sRGB in CAL1(AdobeRGB) look the same as the same photo in CAL2 (sRGB)? Why the sRGB CAL2 looks so much different than AdobeRGB CAL1?
Also, as Windows are not color managed, shouldn't the colors in CAL1 and CAL2 look the same for most of the applications, including windows explorer?
I use the monitor with Fujitsu E752 that has Intel HD4000 graphics, and Windows 7 64 bit.
Thanks
yumichan
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October 17th, 2014 15:00
No need to reboot computer, only restart color managed application like Photoshop or LR.
Without a profile, LR or PS does not know what gamut or gamma has your monitor in its current state.
If you are in CAL2=sRGB but it has "CAL1_AdobRGB.icm" as default, color management will think that your monitor in its current state has an AdobeRGB gamut and will crush green (among other things) in order to remap a taged sRGB image (the one you opened) to your AdobeRGB gamut (what ICM profile is saying to color management)
yumichan
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October 17th, 2014 09:00
You cannot switch between CAL1 and CAL2 and expect images to render properly, as SAID MANY MANY MANY times in this forum:
1) you are in CAL1=AdobeRGB and work in an sRGB tagged image with a color managed program and CAL1.icm as default profile in a Dell GBLED. Image is rendered properly
2) you switch to CAL2=sRGB. Images seem dull and it's your fault.
3) You need to close color managed program where you edit your images
4) You change CAL1.ICM in windows control panel ->color management to CAL2.ICM, so NOW windows is able to report to color managed applications what actual gamut and gamma your display has NOW.
5) You open your color managed app and then open your previous sRGB tagged image. Then images seems RIGHT.
And THIS APPLIES TO WHATEVER MULTI PRESET OSD WIDEGAMUT MONITOR YOU CHHOSE: Dell, Asus, viewsonic, hp, eizo , nec...
Color managed apps NEED to know ACTUAL display behaviour (gamut and gamma). Most color appd rely on info provided by OS, you ypu need to reopen them if default profile changes: examples ara LR & PS. Other ones (most of them designed to be run on OS/desktop manager without color management like Linux Mint Mate) have the option to be explicitly informed of actual profile (Firefox and GIMP) but most of them needs a restart to update its color behaviour.
mirekti
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October 17th, 2014 09:00
Understand, I did restarted the LR, but not the Windows. I will try to recalibrate the monitor again today.
I also noticed I am getting an error in the Logger file.
Here is the error:
[11.10.2014 17:39:09.364] ERROR MatrixXMLParser.cpp:81 : Failed to parse xml file C:\ProgramData//X-Rite\Dell UltraSharp Color Calibration Solution\displayTechTypes.xml
[11.10.2014 17:39:09.379] INFO Display Name: DELL U2713H ---- Hardware ID: DELA092 --- DisplayIndex : 0
[11.10.2014 17:39:09.379] INFO Monitor Name: DELL U2713H
[11.10.2014 17:39:09.379] INFO Monitor Type: 8
[11.10.2014 17:39:09.379] INFO Serial Number: C6F0K41K0JUL
[11.10.2014 17:39:28.203] INFO Display Name: DELL U2713H ---- Hardware ID: DELA092 --- DisplayIndex : 0
[11.10.2014 17:39:28.203] INFO Monitor Name: DELL U2713H
[11.10.2014 17:39:28.203] INFO Monitor Type: 8
[11.10.2014 17:39:28.203] INFO Serial Number: C6F0K41K0JUL
Is this the correct file I should create?
I will let you know how it looks like. Thanks for the comments.
yumichan
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October 17th, 2014 10:00
You do NOT need to restart Windows. Just close color managed application, change ICM profile in control panel, and reopen your color managed app. No need to reboot.
The log you posted is an old issue related to DCCS 1.0, it "should" mean no harm in DCCS 1.5.x. This issue `revented DCCS 1.0 from appling proper spectral correction to i1DisplayPro measurements. I have the XML patch you posted applied in my system but because I worked (and fight) with DCCS 1.0.
DCCS 1.5.x "should" work properly even wuth this issue reported in log,
mirekti
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October 17th, 2014 10:00
But I cannot see any ICM profile under Devices in Color Management in Control Panel.
I use CAL1, and CAL2, and change them via Dell Display Manager.
yumichan
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October 17th, 2014 12:00
Dell Display managed changes OSD mode, nothing more.
Control panel, color management, devices, your dell, use my configuration, add
yumichan
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October 17th, 2014 13:00
You set the name of the profile in the final step of DCCS 1.5.x.
Recallibrate an put more attention in the final step... and of couse SET A MEAINGFUL NAME, for example:
"U2713h_CAL1_AdobeRGB.icm" and "U2713h_CAL2_sRGB.icm"
Other option is perform a "profile only" profile in ArgyllCMS/DispacalGUI (with RG_phosphor CCSS spectral corecction but this task may be diffucult for newbies), since you habe the monitor calibrated in its internal LUT3D in CAL1 and CAL2.
mirekti
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October 17th, 2014 13:00
Ok, now I am fully lost. I thought Win will use it's default profile, and it will be adjusted based on the values stored in Monitor's CAL1, and CAL2.
I cannot find any profile that has Dell name in it.
mirekti
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October 17th, 2014 14:00
I re calibrated the monitor, and I can see profiles in Color management.
I must admit, I don't understand the usage of CAL1 (set to Adobe), and CAL2 (set to sRGB) anymore, or better to say I never did.
Should it be used like this, and only like this?
AdobeRGB
1. Set the color profile to ...AdobeRGB.icm in Color Management
2. Set the OSD profile to CAL1
3. Re launch the application
sRGB
1. Set the color profile to ...sRGB.icm in Color Management
2. Set the OSD profile to CAL2
3. Re launch the application.
Basically, one shouldn't change CAL1 to CAL2 and vice versa unless it is followed by reboot or a restart of application that is uses color management?
mirekti
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October 17th, 2014 15:00
Perfect, thanks for all the support!!!
What would be the best way to check these profiles now?
Should I use dispcalGUI, and run a Calibrate only while in CAL1?
yumichan
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October 17th, 2014 15:00
No, definitely not.
In dispcalGUI with RG_Phosphor as spectral correction, run "tools","measuremet report", all unckecked, make sure actual profile name is displayed an sleect a patch file, verify_extended should work for a fast but very complete profile validation.
It will generate an HTML report, enable javascript.
This will not work if you made a ICC v4 profile in DCCS. In order to ensure compability an profile validation you should make ICM profiles in version 2