Thanks. Good idea to check the Event Viewer ... I should have thought of that!

Looking at NTFS errors, there are none related to the system (c:\) disk.

There are 19 error 140 (failed to flush the transaction log) + 3 error 98 (volume required online scan) + 1 error 55 (corruption discovered in the file system structure). ALL relate to an external hdd (volume f:) used for Retrospect backup.

I'll look at sorting f:\ (the external hdd), but there are zero issues related to drive c:\

Also ran an in-depth SeaTools check on drive c: again and no issues found. The system disk appears good and not to be failing

I have run a ckdsk /r on the external drive and oddly it reported no issues ... see below. I've also run a repair-volume on both the external (f:) and internal (c:) drives, again with no problems.

I can see Event Viewer disk i/o warnings though... but they are mostly over the external drive, not the primary drive, e.g.

The IO operation at logical block address 0x74707adf for Disk 1 (PDO name: \Device\00000038) was retried.

Note this example is on disk 1, but is the exception ... there are only a few of these and most are reported against disk 2.

The scan results from the external drive which have by far the majority of the disk i/o warnings reads:

Volume dismounted. All opened handles to this volume are now invalid.
Volume label is Office-ExternalHD.

Stage 1: Examining basic file system structure ...
5120 file records processed.
File verification completed.
7 large file records processed.
0 bad file records processed.

Stage 2: Examining file name linkage ...
54 reparse records processed.
9538 index entries processed.
Index verification completed.
0 unindexed files scanned.
0 unindexed files recovered to lost and found.
54 reparse records processed.

Stage 3: Examining security descriptors ...
Security descriptor verification completed.
2210 data files processed.
CHKDSK is verifying Usn Journal...
310656 USN bytes processed.
Usn Journal verification completed.

Stage 4: Looking for bad clusters in user file data ...
5104 files processed.
File data verification completed.

Stage 5: Looking for bad, free clusters ...
413485898 free clusters processed.
Free space verification is complete.

Windows has scanned the file system and found no problems.
No further action is required.

1953512000 KB total disk space.
299435492 KB in 2718 files.
1688 KB in 2211 indexes.
0 KB in bad sectors.
131224 KB in use by the system.
65536 KB occupied by the log file.
1653943596 KB available on disk.

4096 bytes in each allocation unit.
488378000 total allocation units on disk.
413485899 allocation units available on disk.

All the EV issues are warnings ... no errors or critical. You still believe the primary drive is failing?

Just downloaded the HGST DFT utility and am testing the external drive ... not that I'd expect it to be involved in the boot issues

@iain_h there are two clear issues with your system here - the system shutting down to off and not booting into Windows.

For the power issue, it could be the PSU or the drive requesting to much power (Highly unlikely), however the system only seems to be shutting off during the boot cycle.

My suggestion is you go for a clean install of the operating system to rule that out. If it still fails after the clean install replace the drive. If it's still shutting down after that look at replacing the PSU.

Alan

@iain_h if you were previously signed into Windows 10 and use use the same account then there shoudn't be any issues. Microsoft will recognise that you have previously updated from 7 to 10 as long as you sign in using the same account. 

You can download Windows 10 using the Microsoft Media Creation tool from Microsoft themselves. Your Dell Recovery Media may work, I cant see it not working as you will be signing in using the same account. 

Alan

Thanks Alan

Not sure about how simple a clean install is these days with no media provided. In the bad old days you just fed diskette or shoved in a CD and off you go. Also, as this shipped with Win7 and then 'autoupdated' to Win10 as per the MS 'everyone needs to get onto Win10 by this date' campaign, I'm not even sure about activation keys, as the code on the box related to the Win7 original install.

So quite how do I go about creating a clean install disk/stick? I have a Dell Win10 recovery stick, but that's 64-bit only and came with some 9360s, but couldn't be used on the 710 I suspect.

As you say, the hdd demanding too much juice seems unlikely, and what makes me think it's unlikely to be the PSU is the issue is only ever in this ~2 second window, as the machine moves from BIOS to starting Windows. I can't but help a dodgy PSU would given issues at all kinds of time, maybe suffer from heat build-up after extended use etc., and I have none of those issues.

I have a spare SATA disk I could use and a bare metal restore onto that wouldn't be too much of an issue ... just time. That wouldn't be a clean install of course, but would eliminate the disk being the issue, although from all the tests that seems good.

Ultimately it's not worth throwing a lot of time or money at it, it just odd it has this one issue in this one 2 sec window only...

Clean install is VERY EASY when you use REAL DVD.  OEM system builder DVD, 7zip, and The Driver Cab file and you can reinstall whenever you want long after the internet is no longer working.

Years from now this media will still work and still install.

Not supported does not mean not working.

Oem System Builder Media is the same for Home and PRO.

The drivers for these models can be downloaded all at once via CAB file.

You save that cab file into the my documents folder.

Then download 7zip and right click on the cab file and say "Extract Here"

https://www.7-zip.org/download.html

Once that is done you can right click on any yellow ! in device manager and say install drivers from my pc instead of from the internet.

https://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/04/Drivers/DriversDetails?driverId=799FV

https://downloads.dell.com/FOLDER02076369M/1/7010-win7-A06-799FV.CAB

https://www.newegg.com/microsoft-windows-10-pro-64-bit-reinstall-recovery-disc-only-no-license-key-included/p/N82E16832350238

You install using the "I don't have a key" option and once online you use the Windows 7 COA Key to Activate 10 home or Pro.

This method works with ALL DELLS from 2006 to 2019 and I suspect beyond.

I use Internal SATA DVD drive OR external USB 2.0 Optical drive and OEM system builder DVD.   You cannot use Retail windows must be OEM version to accept the WIN7 key.

WIN7 COA

If you do not have a COA key or its Damaged and un readable you will need to buy OEM system builder DVD that comes with NEW COA sticker.

One of these DVD's works for EVERY Dell you own whether laptop or Desktop.  You will need USB 2.0 Optical drive if your machine does not have a drive aka MICRO form factor or new laptop with no optical drive.

WIN10 COA

The other Reason I choose USB 2.0 Drive is that the cost of this drive with software is the same as buying Cyberlink Power DVD software.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-8x-external-usb-2-0-blu-ray-disc-double-layer-dvdrw-cd-rw-disc-rewriter-black/9243009.p?skuId=9243009

Windows 8 and 10 remove DVD playback and other software that most people want and need to use.

DVD playback,  Windows Media Center, and all of that functionality was REMOVED from windows 10.  Just as it was in windows 8 and 8.1

You have to set the region code on the DVD drive and buy a new DVD playback codec.

 Why DVD playback was removed Windows 10, Comes down to licence fees: for every DVD player that Microsoft ships or sells, it has to pay a fairly large fee to include licence-encumbered codecs such as MPEG-2. Removing DVD playback as a core feature of the OS is an easy way to cut costs.

Once you change the Region Code of your DVD  download and install VLC to play other media that no longer works within windows.

https://www.videolan.org/vlc/download-windows.html

I also use Quicktime 7.7.9 which is also not supported but works fine.

https://support.apple.com/kb/DL837?locale=en_US

This adds other codecs removed from windows and most browsers.

Thanks speedstep. I will read, digest and give it a crack. Thanks

Well savvy2, I take it all back, you were right and the issue seems to be the PSU. There is no issue with the system running - it has NEVER crashed - but the PSU seems less happy about starting-up.

Looking in the Event Viewer there are Event 41 Kernal-Power critical errors ... never with any bug data as of course these come from Windows not even starting.

Today was not a happy day and the machine shut-off just as Windows started loading numerous times ... maybe 10? It was just not going to play ball.

Some time ago I changed the DRAM, going from 8Gb to 16Gb ... to help get a little more speed out of the box ... and so I removed one of the 8Gb DIMMs and the machine started first time. Oddly, replacing the second 8Gb DIMM it's also started, but I think it suggests to PSU is not good at providing enough power during this crucial point during start up. There must be some kind of spike in power demand and sometimes it makes it, and some times it doesn't, but if it does, it's good to go.

So the question is about new PSU or new machine. Much as I don't want to chuck good money after bad, I also don't want to have to build a new box and transfer everything across. Time is also money and scarce, so I might go for a replacement PSU and see if that resolves my boot issues. The machine only runs a 32-bit accounting package a few times a month and it used for nothing else, hence why I don't really feel the need to get the latest i9 box. I just need it to be reliable.

Good to know it's not HDD or some motherboard/similar issue, just the plain old PSU, which is clearly just on the fringe of working okay.

Having obtained a replaced PSU I can advise than the new PSU made not one iota of difference. The exact same behaviour, and so I am back to my original thinking that a failing PSU wouldn't lead the the failure of the machine at PRECISELY the same point during boot-up and NEVER at any other time.

I believe the Event 41 Kernal-Power critical errors comes from Windows setting a flag during startup and then clearing this on shutdown. If the flag is found during a startup, it's taken that there was an uncontrolled shutdown last time and an Event 41 logged. Clearly when the machine starts to load Windows, it gets as far as setting this 'power failure flag', and then shortly after fails, meaning the next time the machine gets to start properly, the flag is interpreted as a prior session power failure. In fact it's caused by 'whatever' causing the boot failure and in fact Windows never gets properly loaded, for it to be considered a 'proper' uncontrolled power failure during operation.

I'll try imaging the current HDD onto a spare drive and see if that makes a difference. Not sure I'll go to the extent of rebuilding Windows as the whole reason for persevering trying to locate and resolve this issue is that it saves me the time of a new machine build, app and setting setup and copy-over etc. The machine might only be worth $25 or whatever, but my time required to do a replacement is very considerably more. This box only runs a 32-bit accounting app a few times I month and so I really don't see the need to move to the latest i9 cpu. I just need this machine to be reliable, and it's i5-3570 Ivy Bridge 22nm cpu should be quite adequate for the task it's needed to perform. It just needs to do it reliably and on that it's failing badly. So if I have to do a rebuilt, I might as well do it on a newer and less cantankerous piece of tin

Well having discounted the PSU theory, I have now changed the HDD and done a bare metal restore to a brand new disk and I get the same startup issue. I think therefore that discounts the 'bad disk' theory as well, which is in line with the original disk passing all drive diagnostics including the multi-hour extended tests.

So with PSU and HDD definitely out the way, we seem to be down to hardware or software ... or, given the very precise point the issue only every materialises, maybe it's firmware?

So to repeat, the only issue the machine EVER has is at the point when the machine is moving from BIOS boot to Windows load. The sequence is...

1. BIOS boot and Dell logo
2. Windows 10 '4 pane' logo ... with nothing else on the screen at all
3. And 1/sub-2 seconds later, Windows 10 '4 pane' logo plus spinning ball bearings

The problem ONLY ever occurs at step 2. The machine has no stability problems or errors of any kind at any time once it gets to the 'spinning ball bearings' stage.

So could this be a Windows config issue? I remain inclined against this as this is simply so early in the boot sequence. It's the attempt to moving into Windows load that seems to fail, so very early in the bootstrap process. Windows hasn't really begun to load, the only thing that has happened to the Windows '4 pane' logo comes up for <1 second and at that point, the machine either carries on and the spinning ball bearings appear which ALWAYS signifies all is good, or it powers down. How could a corrupt Windows install/config work on some starts, fail on others and then have zero issues? I find it hard to see this can be a Windows installation issue it's both so precise and can work simply be re-pressing the power button.

Maybe it's a motherboard issue?

My challenge is the time consumed in fixing and so not needing to built a new machine, vs. the time needed to built a new machine and move everything over. My only reason for persevering with the old box is the time and effort saving in sourcing, building and moving everything to a new box ... but of course I continue to waste time on the old box ... which 'mostly' works 100%, except for this one very small time window during boot.

The battery size is 2032.