Well the solution to this is hasn't been to change the HDD (although this was done), not to change the power supply (although that was done), not to upgrade the machine to am i9, no it was...
Just change the NVM battery, a CR3032 on the motherboard, and now all is well and the machine boots every time!
Windows 7, 32-bit* Windows 7, 64-bit* Windows Vista 32* Windows Vista 64* Windows XP Home Edition* Windows XP Media Center Edition* Windows XP Professional x64 Edition* Windows XP Professional*
the real question , endless on PC repair help forums.
is the customer has no tools, and no spare parts.
diagnosing a PC lacking advanced tools and utilities makes the job harder or most times impossible
for sure if ePSA fails (firmware diagnosis if present there) 2012 , IDK, too old for me.
A spare PSU and spare SDD in the tool box kit is mandatory in my book.
if you dont have that and great linux boot media, (demo live) or win7PE boot media with all tools loaded to it.
then diagnosis becomes endless.....
one can take any PC to a shop and he/she has all those tools and more.
the 7010 MT PSU Minitower.
fits all these PCs. my 390 has generic 700watt ATX PSU right now, do you have MT? if yes, PSU tests get far far more easy to diagnose. next time post what PC YOU OWN of the 4.
Dell Optiplex "MT" 275W ATX power supply 390/790/990/3010/7010/9010 0841Y4
2012 PC , is not really chopped liver but not 64bit qualified 2nd gen sandy bridge CPU, 4th up is best..\
or can run Gen 3 CPUs."IVY"
it is not 3 years old you bought a REFRIB, (so do I , many) Refurbs are what I call USED and dusted off.
if you get my drift. for sure expelled from a major business or school district etc. GOV used.
so in such PC it self shuts, off (that is not a good sign ever)
and I bet never shuts off with HDD removed, running only BIOS, ?????
then you insert test media, say linux boot USB stick and it and test it. (and does not self shut off now?)
my guess if the HDD is bad, run smart tests it (S.M.A.R.T ) and be real sure no UN-correctable errors are there. (there are many ways to run smart tests, not one)
I use my Ubuntu v17+ demo disk to fully test the HDD, or do this. (zero cost) and run DISKTEST under linux.
or if free boot media fear:
I grab my spare good SSD, 60/128GB drive ($20 spares I keep for testing)
and insert it and load w10 fresh, if it loads at all . intel does not support 32bit now. so....
install to a known good hdd or sdd, a very very simple and cheap test. $20 max.
If the PC still shuts off, at any time, testing , running linux boots media or loading to fresh good HDD/SDD loading w10
then that is a hardware failure.
if true that means 1 of 2 things are wrong.
1: PSU is bad.
2: PSU sees overloads and shuts down, (shorts, are not allowed, so we strip the PC down to isolate shorts)
how to w10 get on this box (32 bit I bet)
during the free 2015 w10 update? tell this please and how long ago.
savvy2, the HDD passes every tests, both Seagate and Dell including all the advanced test and surface/sector scans. The machine DOES also start once it's had its few false start and then runs without any issues whatsoever. With a PSU going bad I might expect intermittent crashes ... but once started, it works perfectly for hours or days. With a bad disk I might expect write errors or issues once the machine was running, but there are none.
Everything is 100% okay on the box, excepting getting past the boot step just before the rotating ball bearings. Once it gets itself past that, it is completely okay, and ALL hardware tests including ALL HDD tests are 100% passes
The machine is a 2015 box and so only 4 years old, not 2012. It was an ex-demo box, otherwise new.
You may have missed, but...
HDD passes all SeaTools tests, including the advanced tests
There are no SMART errors
The HDD passes all Dell BIOS checks
The entire machine passes all BIOS h/w checks
The entire machine passes all Dell Support Assistant checks
I doubt it is the PSU as the point of failure is always at EXACTLY the same point in the boot. Id' expect a PSU failure to give much more variable results, or simply not work at all. Instead, after a few attempts, the machine boots fine and can run for hours or even days without a single issue ... no disk read/write issues, no shut downs, 100% AoOK. The ONLY issue is getting past the loading of Win10 during boot. It has this 'display the Win10 logo' then shut down issue, but try a few more times and off it goes fine.
I can see the machine shipped with: 619-35109 : Windows 7 Professional (32Bit) Multi-Language - English, French, German, Dutch, Italian
Of course, MS almost obliged Win7 users to move to Win10 which was an 'in OS' self-update, and then Win10 is designed to be self updating. It's currently on 1903 18362.329. That said...
The machine is not that old. It was an ex demo machine and went out of 12 month warranty in 2016, so will be 4 years old ... hardly an old box unable to run the current OS
If it was an incompatibility, I'd not expect it to 'get there in the end'. So it WILL start ... but can take a number of attempts
No it wasn't related to the move to Win10 nor I suspect the move from 1803 to 1903. The behaviour has been gradual over the past 12 months maybe, with the number of attempts to start increasing over time. So originally no issue whatsoever, then start once fail, start again okay. Now it can be 3 or 5 attempts to start, then okay ... without doing anything other than pressing the power button after a shut down
No I haven't tried a clean install of Win10, but I'm not sure that would make an issue which seems more related to getting Windows to start. IT gets as far as the logo for 1-2 secs, then off
So if it were some incompatibility I'd not expect it to boot, period. But instead, a few attempts and it goes fine with no issues. Hard to put that down to an incompatibility between Win10 1903 and the hardware
@iain_h despite the hdd not failing any tests, it doesn't mean that you don't have faulty hardware. The driver could be failing but not to the point that it return an error message on a hardware diagnostics.
You have advised that the issue happens on boot every time. From my experience here, if it's happening on the boot cycle, its either hard drive or OS.
Logical troubleshooting has suggested the option of starting with a clean install of the OS or swapping in another driver. Your case history and fault description backs up this theory.
If you are not willing to try a clean install, my suggestion would be buy a new drive and then start with a clean install.
@iain_h apologies for the confusion, for "driver" it should have read "drive" as in the hard drive of the system.
As per my previous message, the fault is either with the drive failing or corruption in the boot sector of the drive. This can be the result of the drive physically failing or a corrupt OS.
When the system fails during this stage, does it restart itself or does it shut itself down to physically off and the system needs to be powered back on to function?
If the system is shutting itself down to an off state that a power related fault. You would then be looking at the power circuit i.e power supply and motherboard.
Thanks for your considered reply Alan. I appreciate it.
When you say 'the driver', you mean the software driver or the physical controller?
I would do a clean build or could even to a bare metal restore, but the part that bothers me with all the advice of bad hardware and bad disk, is why the ONLY issue the machine has is this one very small step during the boot sequence. The machine displays no problems of any kind at any time except as the one point of moving from Windows 10 logo to Win 10 logo and spinning ball bearings. Once it passes this point, it all works flawlessly. This just doesn't seem compatible with failing hardware, it seems to be a software step and the switch from firmware BIOS boot to disk based OS boot.
Do you know precisely what is happening in the 1-2 secs between Win10 logo only and Win10 logo plus spinning ball bearings? What is being accessed? What failure at this point would cause a shutdown as opposed to some boot failure message? Windows is clearly just starting ... it gets as far as the Win10 logo, but OS loading goes no further.
Understanding what's actually going on at this point in the boot sequence would probably get me to the issue. As I said, the fact everything runs flawlessly once this point is passed, and this point is passed if you simply power up the machine a second or third time, doesn't really sound like some key hardware failure. It's something VERY specific to that point in the boot process, and that 'action' only as the machine shows no other issues at all. I'd even wondered if it could be something as trivial as the NVM battery?
When the machine fails to start, it shuts down. So as best as I can describe...
Press power button
Flash of orange and turns white on POT complete
Dell logo shows
Win10 logo shows ... just the 4 'panes' of the window
Then either...
Auto power-off. No error, just power-off, or
The spinning ball bearings appear and then all good
So if the system were trying to load and couldn't read the boot sector, I'd expect an on-screen text message abound some failure to load whatever, but instead just auto power-down.
Then press the power button again, the exact-same sequence. The last few times I've started the machine, everything works fine on the second boot and it sails through without issue and then runs without error and defies all hardware checks including the complete machine checks via the BIOS checks, via Support Assistant or via the SeaTools testing.
Clearly something isn't quite right, but it defies all tests to identify it, but yes, it is something in the boot sequence that trips a power-down or just sails on without any issue or any message or anything but a 'perfect' boot. And once the spinning ball bearings appear, there is never any issue with any aspect of the machine's operation.
Event ID 137, Ntfs - "The default transaction resource manager on volume \\?\Volume{9539ca54-4cf5-11e1-9c98-000c2901aad9} encountered a non-retryable error and could not start."
NTFS ID 137 together with STATUS_OBJECT_NAME_NOT_FOUND (C0000034)
Event ID 57, Ntfs - "The system failed to flush data to the transaction log. Corruption may occur."
iain_h
1 Rookie
•
51 Posts
0
December 5th, 2020 09:00
Well the solution to this is hasn't been to change the HDD (although this was done), not to change the power supply (although that was done), not to upgrade the machine to am i9, no it was...
Just change the NVM battery, a CR3032 on the motherboard, and now all is well and the machine boots every time!
speedstep
9 Legend
•
47K Posts
0
September 4th, 2019 05:00
The 7010 is ancient machine that will BOOT and Run WINDOWS XP.
So there would not be any UEFI Secure boot options.
Your drive is going physically bad and should be replaced.
Clean install using windows 10 OEM system builder DVD is recommended.
https://www.neweggbusiness.com/product/product.aspx?item=9b-32-350-237
https://www.amazon.com/Blue-500GB-Desktop-Hard-Drive/dp/B00461G3MS/
https://www.dell.com/support/driver/us/en/04/driversdetails?driverid=k0ck5
Advanced format drives REQUIRE AHCI F6 mass storage drivers.
Chipset drivers are also not native to windows.
https://downloads.dell.com/FOLDER00365739M/2/Chipset_Driver_CPNKY_WN32_9.3.0.1019_A00.EXE
https://downloads.dell.com/FOLDER01693556M/2/Audio_Driver_594D4_WN_6.0.1.5985_A14.EXE
https://downloads.dell.com/FOLDER04469185M/4/Intel-Management-Engine-Components-Installer_C3VMM_WIN_11.0.6.1194_A02.EXE
https://downloads.dell.com/FOLDER03133116M/1/WinPE3.0-Drivers-A17-YTMNK.CAB
https://downloads.dell.com/FOLDER05287333M/1/Intel-HD-and-HD-4000-Graphics-Driver_41YY8_WIN_10.18.10.5059_A19.EXE
The intel RST F6 drivers are soon to be Gone FOREVER you have a few more days and POOF they are gone.
Download the driver STOR_allOS_10.1.0.1008_PV.exe and one of the following F6 driver diskettes
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/20104/Intel-Rapid-Storage-Technology-RAID-for-Intel-5-Series-Chipset-Based-Desktop-Boards
STOR_allOS_10.1.0.1008_PV.exe
Windows 7, 32-bit*
Windows 7, 64-bit*
Windows Vista 32*
Windows Vista 64*
Windows XP Home Edition*
Windows XP Media Center Edition*
Windows XP Professional x64 Edition*
Windows XP Professional*
Language: English
Size: 5.95 MB
STOR_F6_32_10.1.0.1008_PV.exe
Windows 7, 32-bit*
Windows Vista 32*
Windows XP Home Edition*
Windows XP Media Center Edition*
Windows XP Professional*
Language: English
Size: 0.3 MB
STOR_F6_64_10.1.0.1008_PV.exe
Windows 7, 64-bit*
Windows Vista 64*
Windows XP Professional x64 Edition*
Language: English
Size: 0.33 MB
savvy2
3 Apprentice
•
2.5K Posts
0
September 4th, 2019 06:00
the real question , endless on PC repair help forums.
is the customer has no tools, and no spare parts.
diagnosing a PC lacking advanced tools and utilities makes the job harder or most times impossible
for sure if ePSA fails (firmware diagnosis if present there) 2012 , IDK, too old for me.
A spare PSU and spare SDD in the tool box kit is mandatory in my book.
if you dont have that and great linux boot media, (demo live) or win7PE boot media with all tools loaded to it.
then diagnosis becomes endless.....
one can take any PC to a shop and he/she has all those tools and more.
the 7010 MT PSU Minitower.
fits all these PCs. my 390 has generic 700watt ATX PSU right now, do you have MT? if yes, PSU tests get far far more easy to diagnose. next time post what PC YOU OWN of the 4.
Dell Optiplex "MT" 275W ATX power supply 390/790/990/3010/7010/9010 0841Y4
savvy2
3 Apprentice
•
2.5K Posts
0
September 4th, 2019 06:00
what PC is it :
2012 PC , is not really chopped liver but not 64bit qualified 2nd gen sandy bridge CPU, 4th up is best..\
or can run Gen 3 CPUs."IVY"
it is not 3 years old you bought a REFRIB, (so do I , many) Refurbs are what I call USED and dusted off.
if you get my drift. for sure expelled from a major business or school district etc. GOV used.
so in such PC it self shuts, off (that is not a good sign ever)
and I bet never shuts off with HDD removed, running only BIOS, ?????
then you insert test media, say linux boot USB stick and it and test it. (and does not self shut off now?)
my guess if the HDD is bad, run smart tests it (S.M.A.R.T ) and be real sure no UN-correctable errors are there. (there are many ways to run smart tests, not one)
I use my Ubuntu v17+ demo disk to fully test the HDD, or do this. (zero cost) and run DISKTEST under linux.
or if free boot media fear:
I grab my spare good SSD, 60/128GB drive ($20 spares I keep for testing)
and insert it and load w10 fresh, if it loads at all . intel does not support 32bit now. so....
install to a known good hdd or sdd, a very very simple and cheap test. $20 max.
If the PC still shuts off, at any time, testing , running linux boots media or loading to fresh good HDD/SDD loading w10
then that is a hardware failure.
if true that means 1 of 2 things are wrong.
1: PSU is bad.
2: PSU sees overloads and shuts down, (shorts, are not allowed, so we strip the PC down to isolate shorts)
how to w10 get on this box (32 bit I bet)
during the free 2015 w10 update? tell this please and how long ago.
your PC is w7 PC at best.
it scrap it and get at LEAST a 3020.
next time before buying USD 2012 PCs, read this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_OptiPlex
read the truth, this page if you read it tells you what value it is.
values start at GEN4 intel up. not below, below is dog meat.
buy GEN 4 PC used, cheap , even as cheap as $50 used, 3020 fits that bill.
invest only (upgrades and repairs) on INTEL GEN4 up PCs,
https://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/04/product-support/product/optiplex-7010/drivers
here is your official support page
dell supports some versions of w10-64bit but no all.
and intel does not, on gen 3, per intel web site, this means intel binaries ended, at Gen3. a very serious matter.
on any PC made make sure you have future support from Dell/MS/Intel. for a future/
and that is Gen4 intel CPU up.
run only W10 64 bit, V1903 up. buy a PC that has full support, for today and tomorrow.
never try to fix a PC (for sure this PC) lacking a good know good spare HDD< a SSD loads way faster so SSD is the best of best.
if your HDD is now 7 years old, why think it is still good? unless fully tested.
A wise tech never assumes any old HDD is good, ever, or spend weeks labor loading w10 fresh endless !!!!
even to the point of removing HDD from bad PC, put in and external case and run Crystaldiskinfo.exe on it.
make sure it shows Green boxes. not 05 or C6 parameter failing ever. yellow is fail too. always....
not this.
Dell-Alan D
3 Apprentice
•
1.2K Posts
0
September 4th, 2019 06:00
@iain_h Windows 10 has been certified for use on this system up to version 1803. Versions released after that point we can't guarantee will work.
The version of Windows that you have installed, is it Dell OEM or from the Windows media creation tool from Microsoft themselves?
Have you tried just a clean install of the operating system again to see if that resolves the issue?
Do you have the option to swap in another drive with a copy of Windows on it to see if exhibits the same symptoms?
How long has this issue been occurring for or has it never worked since installing Windows 10?
Alan
savvy2
3 Apprentice
•
2.5K Posts
0
September 4th, 2019 06:00
yours has street value of $25 sans HDD.
the 3020 MT far better at $50
even lower if read this page, see reality in green.
never pay more than USED PCs are worth. (most time one can upgrade the PC model and not fix the old one for less cash)
$41 to the door
3020 or newer
and only (IMO) buy MT cased PCs. so you can run any video card you want. and as many HDD you want.,
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313.TR6.TRC2.A0.H0.Xdell+optiplex+3020+mt.TRS0&_nkw=dell+optiplex+3020+mt&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&LH_PrefLoc=1&_sop=15&_osacat=0&_odkw=dell+optiplex+7010+no+hdd&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1
my best dell is T3610 ,
iain_h
1 Rookie
•
51 Posts
0
September 4th, 2019 07:00
savvy2, the HDD passes every tests, both Seagate and Dell including all the advanced test and surface/sector scans. The machine DOES also start once it's had its few false start and then runs without any issues whatsoever. With a PSU going bad I might expect intermittent crashes ... but once started, it works perfectly for hours or days. With a bad disk I might expect write errors or issues once the machine was running, but there are none.
Everything is 100% okay on the box, excepting getting past the boot step just before the rotating ball bearings. Once it gets itself past that, it is completely okay, and ALL hardware tests including ALL HDD tests are 100% passes
iain_h
1 Rookie
•
51 Posts
0
September 4th, 2019 07:00
The machine is a 2015 box and so only 4 years old, not 2012. It was an ex-demo box, otherwise new.
You may have missed, but...
I doubt it is the PSU as the point of failure is always at EXACTLY the same point in the boot. Id' expect a PSU failure to give much more variable results, or simply not work at all. Instead, after a few attempts, the machine boots fine and can run for hours or even days without a single issue ... no disk read/write issues, no shut downs, 100% AoOK. The ONLY issue is getting past the loading of Win10 during boot. It has this 'display the Win10 logo' then shut down issue, but try a few more times and off it goes fine.
iain_h
1 Rookie
•
51 Posts
0
September 4th, 2019 07:00
I can see the machine shipped with:
619-35109 : Windows 7 Professional (32Bit) Multi-Language - English, French, German, Dutch, Italian
Of course, MS almost obliged Win7 users to move to Win10 which was an 'in OS' self-update, and then Win10 is designed to be self updating. It's currently on 1903 18362.329. That said...
So if it were some incompatibility I'd not expect it to boot, period. But instead, a few attempts and it goes fine with no issues. Hard to put that down to an incompatibility between Win10 1903 and the hardware
iain_h
1 Rookie
•
51 Posts
0
September 4th, 2019 07:00
The machine is fully up to date with all drivers, BIOS etc. and Support Assistant reconfirmed only this morning.
The drivers you list are all Win7. The machine is on Win10 32-bit 1903, build 18362.329.
And the machine is 2015 so not that ancient. 4 years should hardly be EoL!
Dell-Alan D
3 Apprentice
•
1.2K Posts
0
September 5th, 2019 06:00
@iain_h despite the hdd not failing any tests, it doesn't mean that you don't have faulty hardware. The driver could be failing but not to the point that it return an error message on a hardware diagnostics.
You have advised that the issue happens on boot every time. From my experience here, if it's happening on the boot cycle, its either hard drive or OS.
Logical troubleshooting has suggested the option of starting with a clean install of the OS or swapping in another driver. Your case history and fault description backs up this theory.
If you are not willing to try a clean install, my suggestion would be buy a new drive and then start with a clean install.
Alan
Dell-Alan D
3 Apprentice
•
1.2K Posts
0
September 12th, 2019 03:00
@iain_h apologies for the confusion, for "driver" it should have read "drive" as in the hard drive of the system.
As per my previous message, the fault is either with the drive failing or corruption in the boot sector of the drive. This can be the result of the drive physically failing or a corrupt OS.
When the system fails during this stage, does it restart itself or does it shut itself down to physically off and the system needs to be powered back on to function?
If the system is shutting itself down to an off state that a power related fault. You would then be looking at the power circuit i.e power supply and motherboard.
Alan
iain_h
1 Rookie
•
51 Posts
0
September 12th, 2019 03:00
Thanks for your considered reply Alan. I appreciate it.
When you say 'the driver', you mean the software driver or the physical controller?
I would do a clean build or could even to a bare metal restore, but the part that bothers me with all the advice of bad hardware and bad disk, is why the ONLY issue the machine has is this one very small step during the boot sequence. The machine displays no problems of any kind at any time except as the one point of moving from Windows 10 logo to Win 10 logo and spinning ball bearings. Once it passes this point, it all works flawlessly. This just doesn't seem compatible with failing hardware, it seems to be a software step and the switch from firmware BIOS boot to disk based OS boot.
Do you know precisely what is happening in the 1-2 secs between Win10 logo only and Win10 logo plus spinning ball bearings? What is being accessed? What failure at this point would cause a shutdown as opposed to some boot failure message? Windows is clearly just starting ... it gets as far as the Win10 logo, but OS loading goes no further.
Understanding what's actually going on at this point in the boot sequence would probably get me to the issue. As I said, the fact everything runs flawlessly once this point is passed, and this point is passed if you simply power up the machine a second or third time, doesn't really sound like some key hardware failure. It's something VERY specific to that point in the boot process, and that 'action' only as the machine shows no other issues at all. I'd even wondered if it could be something as trivial as the NVM battery?
iain_h
1 Rookie
•
51 Posts
0
September 12th, 2019 05:00
No problem Alan
When the machine fails to start, it shuts down. So as best as I can describe...
So if the system were trying to load and couldn't read the boot sector, I'd expect an on-screen text message abound some failure to load whatever, but instead just auto power-down.
Then press the power button again, the exact-same sequence. The last few times I've started the machine, everything works fine on the second boot and it sails through without issue and then runs without error and defies all hardware checks including the complete machine checks via the BIOS checks, via Support Assistant or via the SeaTools testing.
Clearly something isn't quite right, but it defies all tests to identify it, but yes, it is something in the boot sequence that trips a power-down or just sails on without any issue or any message or anything but a 'perfect' boot. And once the spinning ball bearings appear, there is never any issue with any aspect of the machine's operation.
speedstep
9 Legend
•
47K Posts
0
September 12th, 2019 10:00
Drive is physically failing soon to be DEAD IMHO.
Time for clean install onto new drive and recovery of old data via DOCK.
https://www.amazon.com/WAVLINK-External-Docking-Functions-Tool-Free-Black/dp/B0185G6Q58
Event logs likely have errors as well.
Event ID 137, Ntfs - "The default transaction resource manager on volume \\?\Volume{9539ca54-4cf5-11e1-9c98-000c2901aad9} encountered a non-retryable error and could not start."
NTFS ID 137 together with STATUS_OBJECT_NAME_NOT_FOUND (C0000034)
Event ID 57, Ntfs - "The system failed to flush data to the transaction log. Corruption may occur."