2.3.1 UEFI is well documented and defined. 790 DOES NOT HAVE UEFI CLASS 2 bios.
3.3v @ 23 Amps = 75W
3.3v @ 20 Amps =66W
75W cards need 23 Amps on the 3.3v rail to run via the X16 Video Slot.
Power supplies that say 3.3v 20AMP max do not provide sufficient power.
This is the reason why EVGA 700BR is recommended.
B2 BQ G2 N1 W1 versions of the power supply from the same vendor do not work for that specific reason. Should say 25Amps and 150W combined power for the 3.3v/5v rails.
Some vendors have only 90W to 130W combined power on those rails @ 20AMPS which is not sufficient. Look at the spec for this unit.
PCs are categorized as UEFI class 0, 1, 2, or 3. A class 0 machine is a legacy system with a legacy BIOS; i.e. not a UEFI system at all.
A class 1 machine is a UEFI system that runs exclusively in Compatibility Support Module (CSM) mode. CSM is a specification for how UEFI firmware can emulate a legacy BIOS. UEFI firmware in CSM mode loads legacy bootloaders. A class 1 UEFI system may not advertise UEFI support at all, since it isn't exposed to the bootloader. It's only UEFI "within" the BIOS.
A class 2 machine is a UEFI system that can launch UEFI applications but also includes the option to run in CSM mode. The majority of modern PCs are UEFI class 2 machines. Sometimes the choice to run UEFI applications vs. CSM is a one-or-the-other setting in the BIOS configuration, and other times the BIOS will decide which to use after selecting the boot device and checking whether it has a legacy bootloader or a UEFI application.
A class 3 machine is a UEFI system that does not support CSM. UEFI class 3 machines only run UEFI applications and do not implement CSM for backwards compatibility with legacy bootloaders.
If anyone is still following this thread 790 MT Compatibility that’s worked for me. CPU- i7-2600k works with the bios A22, you can get by with the stock heatsink, Must upgrade if you stuff the 1080ti in the rig. GPU- GTX-1080ti (Case modding required) cut hard drive cradles out it will fit. PSU- 750watt 24pin 4pin Ram- DDR3 8GB x 4 (32GB in total) OS- Windows 10 It’s ran well for a year, make sure if you keep it in the original skeleton that you add multiple case fans and keep it in a room under 70 degrees or it will heat up like an oven under heavy load.
8 pin AUX power connector on a video card means that the video card needs 225w to 300w of power from 3.3V rails as well as 12V rails.
Note combined power for 3.3V/5V
Power supplies with 150w combined or more for the 3.3V/5V rails with 2 pci-E AUX power connectors are in spec. Units with 80w to 135w combined on these rails will have issues or not work at all. Usb ports use 2.5w to 5w per port on the 5V rails. 100w on 5v and 40w on 3.3V combined is absolute bare minimum.
I post relevant facts due to users not taking the time to read the relevant engineering documentation. Some of my facts are well known engineering standards as well as IEEE and UL safety standards.
My facts reference the following documents: PCI Express Base Specification, Revision 1.1 PCI Local Bus Specification, Revision 3.0
Secure Boot Requires UEFI class 2.3.1 bios or HIGHER.
Saying I am wrong is not the same as proving I'm wrong.
Class 1 bios does not boot GPT or Secure boot.
@DELL-Chris M could weigh in on the secure boot status of OPTIPLEX 790 bios. My facts are based on Microsoft Documentation as well as the UEFI class 2.3.1 standard. UEFI CLASS 1 is legacy only. NO GPT partitions and No secure boot. BIOS that meets the UEFI 2.3.1 specifications provides the following benefits: Ability to support Windows security features like Secure Boot, Windows Defender Credential Guard, and Windows Defender Exploit Guard.
790 is UEFI CLASS 1
Drivers, BIOS, and hardware must be digitally signed with a Windows, WHQL, ELAM, or Store certificate from the Windows Hardware Developer Center Dashboard (Microsoft).
Companion software must be signed with a Microsoft Store Certificate.
End users cannot install or otherwise add this certificate to bios.
There is no such engineering standard. I find that statement to be nonsense. The following vesa standards are regularly updated. Windows 10 does support vesa and legacy option roms. ATI chooses not to support the old standard.
Older model Dells use MS DOS compatible Phoenix Technologies CLASS 1 Bios that is ISA and PCI and DOS INT 13 VESA Video mode 103 compliant. INT 10h, INT 16h 8 bit dos modes are also supported in Class 1 legacy bios. Furthermore all systems past skylake are 64 bit only and windows 10 only. No 32 bit os or NTVDM support.
The dell fan wiring sometimes being non standard is well known at least to me. To avoid errors you either use adapter like this one or you re wire the fan cable on a standard fan to become a Dell fan. Be aware that SOME MODELS have standard wiring and others do not. Dell recently started using ALL BLACK wires so you cannot tell by looking if its standard or wonky wiring.
1. Wrong approach will only alienate. Plus this statement has an assumption. You're already aware of having access to resources, plus knowledge when accessing resources, many people don't. If everybody was a speedstep, we wouldn't need this forum, would we?
2. Well known engineering standards where - inner circle, top of the pyramid?
3. I used the link with trying to use the references you gave above now that you gave those references. Thank you for posting those. But I had no luck in referencing *items disagreed* about. *Not in this thread. Screengrabs would've helped. So you gave me argument and grief along the way. Then why not offer screengrabs for proof if it's suppose refute my proof - referencing videos made by actual users?
Correction. I Googled the references you gave and downloaded the pdf's.
PCI Express Base Specification, Revision 1.1 - 508 pages.
PCI Local Bus Specification, Revision 3.0 - 344 pages OMG on both.
Do you expect everyone who has a GPU question to read through all of that? Again, screengrabs suggested. May be even some copy & paste. Otherwise, that would be the same as expecting users to read every word of their Tech Guides and manuals.
"Well known engineering standards where - inner circle, top of the pyramid?"
There is no pyramid and there is no argument. My references are fact not opinion. There is no inner circle. If you want to Join IEEE as a student its not expensive.
Join a community of over 420,000 technology and engineering professionals united by a common desire to continuously learn, interact, collaborate, and innovate
Get the resources and opportunities you need to keep on top of changes in technology
Get involved in standards development
Network with other professionals in your local area or within a specific technical interest
Are mentored by professional engineers and technologists
Obtain access to the largest library of electrical engineering, computer science, and electronics technical literature as well as the latest technology trends, industry news, and events.
Youtube anecdotal videos are not Recognized international Safety and Engineering standards.
I neither came up with the standards nor did I write the book on UEFI or BIOS or PCI Sig Design.
HOWEVER I have written bios in Intel Assembly language and burned to an EPROM as well as designed and tested ISA, PCI, and PCI-E cards for embedded systems. I have over 45 years of engineering and electronic hands on experience. I know computers since before MSDOS was invented in 1981 or Apple II computers in 1977.
Saying that someone did something on youtube and it worked is not the same as an engineering standard based on UL, FCC, IEEE, specifications. Saying that I have to prove what I'm talking about I have already done and demanding Youtube videos as proof is nonsense. Most users do not have the technical background, support, and Knowledge I have. Its insulting at best to say that I'm wrong without citing specific standards.
I used the link with trying to use the references you gave above now that you gave those references. Thank you for posting those. But I had no luck in referencing *items disagreed* about. *Not in this thread. Screengrabs would've helped. So you gave me argument and grief along the way. Then why not offer screengrabs for proof if it's suppose refute my proof - referencing videos made by actual users?
Videos from end users are not proof. They also would not be acceptable as proof but rather would be considered unsubstantiated hearsay in court.
The burden of proof in a civil suit is more substantial than you tube videos and requires written documentation. I'm not obligated or required to prove anything.
Much of what you said is well said until you got down to the YouTube videos. Copy & paste? But thanks for the info. (The IEEE stuff.)
"My references are fact not opinion." - I know you believe your facts. Thinking that videos, namely videos I referenced, are mere opinion is just an opinion and not fact.
"Youtube anecdotal videos..." - So again, belittling doesn't change them, nor does insulting. Basically, you insult the proof I use.
Does everything that looks perfect on paper turn out that way? Are you able to accept it when facts don't fit what's on paper? Rhetorically - How often is it software looks perfect, either perfect commands onscreen or perfect in a testing room, and nobody can find bugs with it until it's rolled out?
I didn't demand videos, but did ask. Asking you to do screengrabs from supposed documentation is not too much to ask. Nobody needs to read 852 pages for a PCI-e x16 slot.
"Saying that someone did something on youtube and it worked..." - Not "someone," (singular), but actual users (plural).
"Videos from end users are not proof. They also would not be acceptable as proof but rather would be considered unsubstantiated hearsay in court. " Completely false. Is this in lord speedy court? Where would we be without video security, and other videos, nowadays? - Just opinion?
"The burden of proof in a civil suit is more substantial than you tube videos and requires written documentation." - My comment above applies here too. Just written documentation in court is not proof as compared to videos, which not only have weight, but more weight than photographs.
"I'm not obligated or required to prove anything." Then I'm not either, but I didn't play it that way.
In conclusion, this is not court. Some of your statements could be seen as an attempt just to throw me, or things, off track. It was enough to make me wonder. I don't doubt your experience. However, if you want to reference court, there's people that will say anything to either hide the truth or not show proof.
speedstep
9 Legend
•
47K Posts
0
May 25th, 2020 01:00
Rom bios version # is not the CLASS for UEFI bios.
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/oem-uefi
2.3.1 UEFI is well documented and defined. 790 DOES NOT HAVE UEFI CLASS 2 bios.
3.3v @ 23 Amps = 75W
3.3v @ 20 Amps =66W
75W cards need 23 Amps on the 3.3v rail to run via the X16 Video Slot.
Power supplies that say 3.3v 20AMP max do not provide sufficient power.
This is the reason why EVGA 700BR is recommended.
B2 BQ G2 N1 W1 versions of the power supply from the same vendor do not work for that specific reason. Should say 25Amps and 150W combined power for the 3.3v/5v rails.
Some vendors have only 90W to 130W combined power on those rails @ 20AMPS which is not sufficient. Look at the spec for this unit.
https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=100-BR-0700-K1
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/evga-700w-atx12v-eps12v-80-plus-bronze-power-supply-dc-dc-technology-black/6346160.p?skuId=6346160
UEFI class 0-3 and CSM
PCs are categorized as UEFI class 0, 1, 2, or 3. A class 0 machine is a legacy system with a legacy BIOS; i.e. not a UEFI system at all.
A class 1 machine is a UEFI system that runs exclusively in Compatibility Support Module (CSM) mode. CSM is a specification for how UEFI firmware can emulate a legacy BIOS. UEFI firmware in CSM mode loads legacy bootloaders. A class 1 UEFI system may not advertise UEFI support at all, since it isn't exposed to the bootloader. It's only UEFI "within" the BIOS.
A class 2 machine is a UEFI system that can launch UEFI applications but also includes the option to run in CSM mode. The majority of modern PCs are UEFI class 2 machines. Sometimes the choice to run UEFI applications vs. CSM is a one-or-the-other setting in the BIOS configuration, and other times the BIOS will decide which to use after selecting the boot device and checking whether it has a legacy bootloader or a UEFI application.
A class 3 machine is a UEFI system that does not support CSM. UEFI class 3 machines only run UEFI applications and do not implement CSM for backwards compatibility with legacy bootloaders.
Kennys Bus
1 Rookie
•
22 Posts
0
June 2nd, 2020 15:00
Yeah but can you tell me why the PSU doesnt work?
Mateo34
2 Posts
0
October 21st, 2020 13:00
If anyone is still following this thread 790 MT Compatibility that’s worked for me. CPU- i7-2600k works with the bios A22, you can get by with the stock heatsink, Must upgrade if you stuff the 1080ti in the rig. GPU- GTX-1080ti (Case modding required) cut hard drive cradles out it will fit. PSU- 750watt 24pin 4pin Ram- DDR3 8GB x 4 (32GB in total) OS- Windows 10 It’s ran well for a year, make sure if you keep it in the original skeleton that you add multiple case fans and keep it in a room under 70 degrees or it will heat up like an oven under heavy load.
speedstep
9 Legend
•
47K Posts
0
October 21st, 2020 16:00
8 pin AUX power connector on a video card means that the video card needs 225w to 300w of power from 3.3V rails as well as 12V rails.
Power supplies with 150w combined or more for the 3.3V/5V rails with 2 pci-E AUX power connectors are in spec. Units with 80w to 135w combined on these rails will have issues or not work at all. Usb ports use 2.5w to 5w per port on the 5V rails. 100w on 5v and 40w on 3.3V combined is absolute bare minimum.
I post relevant facts due to users not taking the time to read the relevant engineering documentation. Some of my facts are well known engineering standards as well as IEEE and UL safety standards.
My facts reference the following documents:
PCI Express Base Specification, Revision 1.1
PCI Local Bus Specification, Revision 3.0
https://pcisig.com/specifications/pciexpress/
speedstep
9 Legend
•
47K Posts
0
October 21st, 2020 16:00
boots to UEFI safeboot, No such thing.
Secure Boot Requires UEFI class 2.3.1 bios or HIGHER.
Saying I am wrong is not the same as proving I'm wrong.
Class 1 bios does not boot GPT or Secure boot.
@DELL-Chris M could weigh in on the secure boot status of OPTIPLEX 790 bios. My facts are based on Microsoft Documentation as well as the UEFI class 2.3.1 standard. UEFI CLASS 1 is legacy only. NO GPT partitions and No secure boot. BIOS that meets the UEFI 2.3.1 specifications provides the following benefits: Ability to support Windows security features like Secure Boot, Windows Defender Credential Guard, and Windows Defender Exploit Guard.
End users cannot install or otherwise add this certificate to bios.
speedstep
9 Legend
•
47K Posts
0
October 21st, 2020 17:00
"new and proper GOP = Graphics Output Protocol"
There is no such engineering standard. I find that statement to be nonsense. The following vesa standards are regularly updated. Windows 10 does support vesa and legacy option roms. ATI chooses not to support the old standard.
Older model Dells use MS DOS compatible Phoenix Technologies CLASS 1 Bios that is ISA and PCI and DOS INT 13 VESA Video mode 103 compliant. INT 10h, INT 16h 8 bit dos modes are also supported in Class 1 legacy bios. Furthermore all systems past skylake are 64 bit only and windows 10 only. No 32 bit os or NTVDM support.
https://vesa.org/standards-specifications/
https://www.phoenix.com/trademarks/index.html
The VESA BIOS provides protected mode interface for changing screen resolution and color depth.
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/test/hlk/testref/f62f2b44-53c1-4110-a35e-55b61e52fa22
.https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/test/hlk/testref/graphic-adapter-or-chipset-testing-prerequisites
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/windows/hardware/hck/dn383615(v=vs.85)?redirectedfrom=MSDN
speedstep
9 Legend
•
47K Posts
0
October 21st, 2020 17:00
The dell fan wiring sometimes being non standard is well known at least to me. To avoid errors you either use adapter like this one or you re wire the fan cable on a standard fan to become a Dell fan. Be aware that SOME MODELS have standard wiring and others do not. Dell recently started using ALL BLACK wires so you cannot tell by looking if its standard or wonky wiring.
https://www.amazon.com/Pocaton-Female-Socket-Connector-Cooling/dp/B073XJV5L9/
bradthetechnut
7 Technologist
•
9.4K Posts
0
October 21st, 2020 18:00
"I post relevant facts due to users not taking the time to read the relevant engineering documentation."
"Some of my facts are well known engineering standards as well as IEEE and UL safety standards."
"My facts reference the following documents:
PCI Express Base Specification, Revision 1.1
PCI Local Bus Specification, Revision 3.0
https://pcisig.com/specifications/pciexpress/ "
1. Wrong approach will only alienate. Plus this statement has an assumption. You're already aware of having access to resources, plus knowledge when accessing resources, many people don't. If everybody was a speedstep, we wouldn't need this forum, would we?
2. Well known engineering standards where - inner circle, top of the pyramid?
3. I used the link with trying to use the references you gave above now that you gave those references. Thank you for posting those. But I had no luck in referencing *items disagreed* about. *Not in this thread. Screengrabs would've helped. So you gave me argument and grief along the way. Then why not offer screengrabs for proof if it's suppose refute my proof - referencing videos made by actual users?
bradthetechnut
7 Technologist
•
9.4K Posts
0
October 21st, 2020 19:00
Correction. I Googled the references you gave and downloaded the pdf's.
PCI Express Base Specification, Revision 1.1 - 508 pages.
PCI Local Bus Specification, Revision 3.0 - 344 pages OMG on both.
Do you expect everyone who has a GPU question to read through all of that? Again, screengrabs suggested. May be even some copy & paste. Otherwise, that would be the same as expecting users to read every word of their Tech Guides and manuals.
speedstep
9 Legend
•
47K Posts
0
October 21st, 2020 23:00
"Well known engineering standards where - inner circle, top of the pyramid?"
There is no pyramid and there is no argument. My references are fact not opinion. There is no inner circle. If you want to Join IEEE as a student its not expensive.
https://students.ieee.org/become-a-member/
As a Student/Graduate Student Member of IEEE you:
Youtube anecdotal videos are not Recognized international Safety and Engineering standards.
I neither came up with the standards nor did I write the book on UEFI or BIOS or PCI Sig Design.
HOWEVER I have written bios in Intel Assembly language and burned to an EPROM as well as designed and tested ISA, PCI, and PCI-E cards for embedded systems. I have over 45 years of engineering and electronic hands on experience. I know computers since before MSDOS was invented in 1981 or Apple II computers in 1977.
Saying that someone did something on youtube and it worked is not the same as an engineering standard based on UL, FCC, IEEE, specifications. Saying that I have to prove what I'm talking about I have already done and demanding Youtube videos as proof is nonsense. Most users do not have the technical background, support, and Knowledge I have. Its insulting at best to say that I'm wrong without citing specific standards.
I used the link with trying to use the references you gave above now that you gave those references. Thank you for posting those. But I had no luck in referencing *items disagreed* about. *Not in this thread. Screengrabs would've helped. So you gave me argument and grief along the way. Then why not offer screengrabs for proof if it's suppose refute my proof - referencing videos made by actual users?
Videos from end users are not proof. They also would not be acceptable as proof but rather would be considered unsubstantiated hearsay in court.
The burden of proof in a civil suit is more substantial than you tube videos and requires written documentation. I'm not obligated or required to prove anything.
bradthetechnut
7 Technologist
•
9.4K Posts
0
October 22nd, 2020 19:00
Much of what you said is well said until you got down to the YouTube videos. Copy & paste? But thanks for the info. (The IEEE stuff.)
"My references are fact not opinion." - I know you believe your facts. Thinking that videos, namely videos I referenced, are mere opinion is just an opinion and not fact.
"Youtube anecdotal videos..." - So again, belittling doesn't change them, nor does insulting. Basically, you insult the proof I use.
Does everything that looks perfect on paper turn out that way? Are you able to accept it when facts don't fit what's on paper? Rhetorically - How often is it software looks perfect, either perfect commands onscreen or perfect in a testing room, and nobody can find bugs with it until it's rolled out?
I didn't demand videos, but did ask. Asking you to do screengrabs from supposed documentation is not too much to ask. Nobody needs to read 852 pages for a PCI-e x16 slot.
"Saying that someone did something on youtube and it worked..." - Not "someone," (singular), but actual users (plural).
"Videos from end users are not proof. They also would not be acceptable as proof but rather would be considered unsubstantiated hearsay in court. " Completely false. Is this in lord speedy court? Where would we be without video security, and other videos, nowadays? - Just opinion?
"The burden of proof in a civil suit is more substantial than you tube videos and requires written documentation." - My comment above applies here too. Just written documentation in court is not proof as compared to videos, which not only have weight, but more weight than photographs.
"I'm not obligated or required to prove anything." Then I'm not either, but I didn't play it that way.
In conclusion, this is not court. Some of your statements could be seen as an attempt just to throw me, or things, off track. It was enough to make me wonder. I don't doubt your experience. However, if you want to reference court, there's people that will say anything to either hide the truth or not show proof.