16GB sounds like a lot now, but I would get 64GB in each host if I were you, as we are finding it is not cost effective to upgrade ram to 64GB after purchase.... beat your rep up on it, they have pretty much margine on the AMD hosts. We are getting 64GB R415's (AMD two 6 core CPUs) if that matters to you (12 cores) for under $3K each.
Vmware essentials is hard to beat cost wise for what you get. Free ESXi stinks these days since 5.0 and the new vRAM limits.
I'll dig up the config for you. Dell reps are not that great at achieving the best bang for buck configs in my opinion.
Also - an additional follow question if anyone has been through this: Should I order the two R710's with 2TB drives in RAID5 in each or should I look into some sort of NAS type solution instead? This will require something like iSCSI or something better than that cheap PowerConnect switch, right?
On shared storage? Powervault storage is of the most ecconomical out there. Once again beat your rep up hard, as they are going to try their best to sell you on EQL.
On the memory? Virtualization is like crack.... I mean not to long ago we were on two 32GB hosts and one san, now we have several sans three data centers and a need for 64GB on our hosts. That is when we realized we could get new R415's with 64GB for less than it would of cost to upgrade our existing hosts to 64GB, Ok not less, but for about the same price.
Thanks for the info. You're cranking out 45 VM's on R415's? Nice! I'll definitely revise my plan to include the cheaper 415's instead of the 710. I was looking at getting something like 16GB of RAM - mostly for future VM use like adding a couple Linux hosts for web development, etc. Is that also overkill? Or not enough?
As far as shared storage goes - any suggestions? I'd need enough for shared files for the office and for storing multiple VM's depending on what I end up needing in the future. (also thinking about using VMware or non-free Citrix XenDesktop to provide virtual desktops). What about redundancy if the shared storage device failed?
On the switches? Depends somewhat on the san. But we run on 2 inexpensive D-Link enterprise switches for our iSCSI. The switch / network config demands will depend on the SAN and it's best practice configuration.
Shared storage is what your missing.... Pretty important for what you want to do in the virtualized environment.
The hosts seem a little overkill from your description of the environment. I mean we are pounding R415's hard these days with excellent results. But we are VMware shop. I mean, we cranked up 45 VM's on one and it ran it all fine. Many of those VM's are very demanding. Not sure how much ram your getting, but I'd get less expensive hosts with more memory if I were you.
Most racks are designed to be bolted to the floor. Not sure about the rack you are considering.
Geesh I can see I am not typing well at all today... Should have read.
I'd order inexpensive drives for the hosts, just to hold the Hypervisor. You just need like maybe three 150GB'rs, for raid 1 mirror with a hot spare for each host.
PS: Now we don't run 45 VM's on them all the time, we were doing updates and Vmotioned everything to one host while we updated the other two. But the users were none the wiser. And with VMware of course these VM moves between hosts were all done live and in production with no downtime. :)
Yeah, on the manual HA? In clusters, all similar OS'd hosts have access to all the same storage areas. With VMware You set it up on one host then simply browse the datastore on the others, right click the .vmx file and choose add to inventory. That is with free ESXi, with essenitals / essentials plus you get a Vcenter console that takes care of Vmotions, HA, ect..ect...
Because Vmware is fully cluster aware? It stops you from bringing up the same VM on two different hosts at the same time even with the free ESXi option.
JOHNADCO
2 Intern
•
847 Posts
0
September 21st, 2011 13:00
16GB sounds like a lot now, but I would get 64GB in each host if I were you, as we are finding it is not cost effective to upgrade ram to 64GB after purchase.... beat your rep up on it, they have pretty much margine on the AMD hosts. We are getting 64GB R415's (AMD two 6 core CPUs) if that matters to you (12 cores) for under $3K each.
Vmware essentials is hard to beat cost wise for what you get. Free ESXi stinks these days since 5.0 and the new vRAM limits.
I'll dig up the config for you. Dell reps are not that great at achieving the best bang for buck configs in my opinion.
Chromag
1 Rookie
•
19 Posts
0
September 21st, 2011 13:00
Also - an additional follow question if anyone has been through this: Should I order the two R710's with 2TB drives in RAID5 in each or should I look into some sort of NAS type solution instead? This will require something like iSCSI or something better than that cheap PowerConnect switch, right?
JOHNADCO
2 Intern
•
847 Posts
0
September 21st, 2011 13:00
On shared storage? Powervault storage is of the most ecconomical out there. Once again beat your rep up hard, as they are going to try their best to sell you on EQL.
JOHNADCO
2 Intern
•
847 Posts
0
September 21st, 2011 13:00
On the memory? Virtualization is like crack.... I mean not to long ago we were on two 32GB hosts and one san, now we have several sans three data centers and a need for 64GB on our hosts. That is when we realized we could get new R415's with 64GB for less than it would of cost to upgrade our existing hosts to 64GB, Ok not less, but for about the same price.
Chromag
1 Rookie
•
19 Posts
0
September 21st, 2011 13:00
Thanks for the info. You're cranking out 45 VM's on R415's? Nice! I'll definitely revise my plan to include the cheaper 415's instead of the 710. I was looking at getting something like 16GB of RAM - mostly for future VM use like adding a couple Linux hosts for web development, etc. Is that also overkill? Or not enough?
As far as shared storage goes - any suggestions? I'd need enough for shared files for the office and for storing multiple VM's depending on what I end up needing in the future. (also thinking about using VMware or non-free Citrix XenDesktop to provide virtual desktops). What about redundancy if the shared storage device failed?
JOHNADCO
2 Intern
•
847 Posts
0
September 21st, 2011 13:00
Config on the last hosts we ordered. We did end up adding the redundant supply on to these though.
Item Number Quantity Item Description
224-9606 1 PowerEdge R415 Chassis w/ up to 4 Hot-Plug Hard Drives,LCD diagnostics
331-0545 1 Shipping Material,PowerEdge R415
317-4793 1 64GB Memory (8x8GB), 1333MHz, Dual Ranked LV RDIMMs for 2 Processors, AECC
317-5458 1 AMD Opteron 4170HE, 6C 2.1GHz, 3M L2/6M L3, 1333Mhz Max Mem
317-5467 1 AMD Opteron 4170HE, 6C 2.1GHz, 3M L2/6M L3, 1333Mhz Max Mem
317-5513 1 PE R415 Heatsink For 2 Processors
341-4158 1 HD Multi-Select
342-0729 1 PERC H200 Adapter RAID Controller
342-2522 1 PERCH200 Cable for HotPlug Chassis
341-8732 1 No OS, No Utility Partition
331-0540 1 One Two-Port Embedded Broadcom NetXtreme II 5716 Gigabit Ethernet NIC
313-7919 1 Baseboard Management Controller
313-7834 1 Optical Cable R410
313-9126 1 DVD ROM, SATA, INTERNAL
313-7839 1 Bezel
331-0547 1 Electronic System Documentation and OpenManage DVD Kit
331-0549 1 No Hard Drive Configuration for SAS/PERC6ir or PERC H200/700, Hot Plug Hard Drive Chassis
330-3522 1 No Rack Rails or Cable Management Arm
925-6487 1 Dell Hardware Limited Warranty Plus On Site Service Initial Year
929-1149 1 DECLINED CRITICAL BUSINESS SERVER OR STORAGE SOFTWARE SUPPORT PACKAGE-CALL YOUR DELL SALES REP IF UPGRADE NEEDED
931-2822 1 Basic Hardware Services: Business Hours (5X10) Next Business Day On Site Hardware Warranty Repair 2 Year Extended
931-9958 1 Dell Hardware Limited Warranty Plus On Site Service Extended Year
936-0940 1 Basic Hardware Services: Business Hours (5X10) Next Business Day On Site Hardware Warranty Repair Initial Year
994-4019 1 Basic support covers SATA Hard Drive for 1 year only regardless of support duration on the system
900-9997 1 On-Site Installation Declined
330-4142 1 Power Supply, Non-Redundant 480W
310-8509 1 Power Cord, NEMA 5-15P to C13, 15 amp, wall plug, 10 feet / 3 meter
341-9160 1 No Hard Drive
Subtotal: $2,772.00
JOHNADCO
2 Intern
•
847 Posts
0
September 21st, 2011 13:00
On the switches? Depends somewhat on the san. But we run on 2 inexpensive D-Link enterprise switches for our iSCSI. The switch / network config demands will depend on the SAN and it's best practice configuration.
JOHNADCO
2 Intern
•
847 Posts
0
September 21st, 2011 13:00
Shared storage is what your missing.... Pretty important for what you want to do in the virtualized environment.
The hosts seem a little overkill from your description of the environment. I mean we are pounding R415's hard these days with excellent results. But we are VMware shop. I mean, we cranked up 45 VM's on one and it ran it all fine. Many of those VM's are very demanding. Not sure how much ram your getting, but I'd get less expensive hosts with more memory if I were you.
Most racks are designed to be bolted to the floor. Not sure about the rack you are considering.
JOHNADCO
2 Intern
•
847 Posts
0
September 21st, 2011 13:00
Geesh I can see I am not typing well at all today... Should have read.
I'd order inexpensive drives for the hosts, just to hold the Hypervisor. You just need like maybe three 150GB'rs, for raid 1 mirror with a hot spare for each host.
JOHNADCO
2 Intern
•
847 Posts
0
September 21st, 2011 13:00
I'd order inexpensive drives from the hosts, just to hold to Hypervisor. You just need like maybe three 150GB'rs, for raid 1 mirror with a hot spare.
Chromag
1 Rookie
•
19 Posts
0
September 21st, 2011 13:00
Wow for under $3,000? I'd guess that price is hardware with NO VMware license costs? That's really good and sounds perfect for what I want to do.
JOHNADCO
2 Intern
•
847 Posts
0
September 21st, 2011 13:00
PS: Now we don't run 45 VM's on them all the time, we were doing updates and Vmotioned everything to one host while we updated the other two. But the users were none the wiser. And with VMware of course these VM moves between hosts were all done live and in production with no downtime. :)
JOHNADCO
2 Intern
•
847 Posts
0
September 21st, 2011 14:00
Yeah, on the manual HA? In clusters, all similar OS'd hosts have access to all the same storage areas. With VMware You set it up on one host then simply browse the datastore on the others, right click the .vmx file and choose add to inventory. That is with free ESXi, with essenitals / essentials plus you get a Vcenter console that takes care of Vmotions, HA, ect..ect...
JOHNADCO
2 Intern
•
847 Posts
0
September 21st, 2011 14:00
Because Vmware is fully cluster aware? It stops you from bringing up the same VM on two different hosts at the same time even with the free ESXi option.
JOHNADCO
2 Intern
•
847 Posts
0
September 21st, 2011 14:00
With the newer 4 port Powervault sans, with two hosts, you don't need any switches dedicated to iSCSI.
The MD3200i is sort of on it's way out, I'd bank that is your way best bet for a great deal from a dell storage rep.