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77351
March 1st, 2013 11:00
PowerEdge 1750: setting up the raid
My plan for this Poweredge 1750 is not so much for use as a server as for capturing an uncompressed video stream. I will need to obtain something around 35Mbit/sec write speed to the internal SCSI drives.
Is this doable using what comes with the factory machine or am I asking too much?
Any suggestions as to how to set up the raid for my application will be appreciated.
Thanks!
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Daniel My
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6.2K Posts
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March 3rd, 2013 11:00
I would look at a system that runs SATA drives, SATA is a lot easier to find. You will want to look at the specs on the drives you purchase to see what the manufacturer states the sustained write speed is.
I can't say for sure on running XP on our servers. There are a couple of our lower end servers that are converted workstations. They have been validated for client operating systems, but most of our servers are not tested to work with any client OS. In theory you should be able to install XP on any system validated for server 2003, but there are subtle differences between the two OSs so you might have some issues.
You can find some really cheap 2950s for sale and in my opinion the 9th generation servers were one of the best lines we have ever come out with. You will see a noticeable performance difference between 9th gen servers and older servers. The tower version(2900) runs quieter and is a better choice to be used in a home if noise will be an issue. The 2900 tends to be more expensive because used tower servers are more sought after for home use.
Any rack server that is older than 10th generation is going to be very loud. 10th generation saw improvements with fan noise, and it has gotten continually better with later generations. If you are able to put the server/s in a garage or some room at the other end of your house then it shouldn't be an issue, but you likely won't be able to sleep or watch TV in the same room as a rack server. They are tolerable at idle fan speeds, but if the CPUs are highly utilized then the fans will max RPM and become extremely loud.
One other thing to consider is that you may be better off with a workstation or desktop computer. Is there a specific reason you are selecting a server to perform this video streaming function?
theflash1932
11 Legend
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16.3K Posts
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March 4th, 2013 09:00
The 2950 has a SAS backplane. SAS slots will accept SAS drives (with the uninterrupted connector) OR SATA drives (with the interrupted connector):
The break in the SATA drive connector lines up with a break in a SATA cable connector(s) (usually separate data/power cables), preventing you from attaching a SAS drive to a SATA cable/backplane connector.
The SAS backplane/cable connector is open, so as to allow EITHER type of drive to be inserted. SAS is "backward" compatible with SATA (backward being in quotes because it is more a "side" compatibility than really "backward").
The 2950 will take SAS or SATA. They can even BOTH be used in the system, as long as they are not in the same array. SAS disks are more expensive, because they are high-performance disks (robust enterprise-level commands, higher MTBF, and higher rotational speed). SATA disks are lower-performance drives - a sacrifice made to allow for larger storage capacities. If using a PERC controller, you should make sure the disks are enterprise-class disks if this is to house important data or services, as cheap consumer/desktop drives will not cut it.
theflash1932
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16.3K Posts
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March 4th, 2013 12:00
"You seemed to suggest if using a PERC raid controller I'm locked into them anyway."
Not at all. SAS disks are enterprise by default. SATA comes in enterprise-class (generally more expensive, but programmed to work in RAID arrays for better performance and reliability) and consumer-class (these are your cheap desktop drives, which are not suitable for enterprise-level RAID arrays). Consumer drives are not rated for 24x7 use, but even if you aren't using them 24x7, their commands are such that you may experience a number of different issues with them, ranging from benign entries in the controller's log to not even being recognized by the controller.
As for actual speed ... I've never really been one for benchmarking for certain speeds, but out of curiosity,
1.5GB file copied in 9 seconds (166MB/s) on the SSD in my workstation;
4.9GB file copied in 60 seconds (82MB/s) on a RAID 10 with four 15K SAS drives on PERC 6;
3.1GB file copied in 59 seconds (52MB/s) on a RAID 10 with four 15K SAS drives under a good load (terminal server) on PERC 6;
1GB file copied in 20 seconds (50MB/s) on a standalone (non-RAID) 15K SAS drive on a SAS 6/iR;
1GB file copied in 30 seconds (33MB/s) on a RAID 1 with 10K SAS drives on a SAS 6/iR;
3.7GB file copied in 110 seconds (33MB/s) on a standalone SATA drive in my workstation;
4.9GB file copied in 20 minutes (4MB/s) on a RAID 1 with SATA drives on a SAS 6/iR (wow is right);
So from this very unscientific survey of the servers convenient to me today, I think 35MB/s should not be hard to attain when using a decent controller (PERC) and enterprise-class disks. If using SAS, two 15K disks in a RAID 1 may be sufficient. If using SATA (which run at 7.2K), you would probably need at least 4, if not 6, in a RAID 10 to sustain those speeds. You said your storage needs are "not that great", so size depends on what you need ... 73GB/15K SAS drives are pretty reasonably priced - 4xRAID10=138GB of usable space to the OS. Of course, this can all depend on the software, the files, and how it is communicated to the controlller that might affect actual speeds.
theflash1932
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16.3K Posts
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March 5th, 2013 11:00
Negligible. The biggest difference between the PERC 5 and PERC 6 (newer) is that the PERC 6 supports RAID 6 and 60. The PERC 6 came out mid-life to the 2950, so older 2950's would have shipped with a PERC 5, newer ones with a PERC 6 ... both will work.
Daniel My
12 Elder
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6.2K Posts
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March 1st, 2013 13:00
Hello scooter250
That should be easily attainable. That is only a little over 8MB/sec, and the HDDs are capable of much higher write speeds than that. If there is any pre/post processing required on this stream then there may be some lag incurred from the CPU, but I don't see HDDs being a limiting factor for you.
Thanks
scooter250
131 Posts
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March 1st, 2013 13:00
ooops! Got my bits and bytes messed up again.
The correct answer is: I need a sustained data rate of at least 30 to 35 MB/second.
How do I stand now?
Daniel My
12 Elder
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March 1st, 2013 14:00
That will be questionable. Some 10K RPM drives may have difficulty sustaining that write speed. What is the model number of your drive/s?
scooter250
131 Posts
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March 3rd, 2013 10:00
I have not purchased anything as yet. Still trying to figure out what will work. I'm leaning now to something like the 2850. It offers more HD's, embedded graphics and three PCI slots.
I will take all the help I can get. If you can recommend something (used and reasonable) in terms of either a system or what to look for in hard drives I would appreciate it.
I would need to run Windows XP Pro on what ever I go with. The capture card I'm using requires it. I know the 1750 can be made to run XP. If thats the case would the 2850 run with it also?
Thanks!
scooter250
131 Posts
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March 4th, 2013 08:00
Daniel:
Thank you.
I'm looking now at the 2950/2900 series like you suggested but, and correct me on this, I do not see that it accepts SATA... only SAS serial attached drives.
Looking at some new drives it appears they claim the same specs as current SATA versions. That is 6 Gbps at 7200rpm. Cost is three times as much for the same space and speed as SATA, though.
Seagate Constellation ES ST32000444SS 2TB / 2000GB 7.2K 6.0Gbps Serial SCSI / SAS Hard Drive
scooter250
131 Posts
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March 4th, 2013 08:00
You asked..."One other thing to consider is that you may be better off with a workstation or desktop computer. Is there a specific reason you are selecting a server to perform this video streaming function?"
At first glance, the workstations appear several times more expensive for the same configuration. Intel Dual Xeon 3.0 or higher CPU with 64bit PCI-X 100/133mhz slots are the main requirements for this specific video capture card
theflash1932
11 Legend
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16.3K Posts
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March 4th, 2013 08:00
SAS is "backwards" compatible with SATA.
scooter250
131 Posts
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March 4th, 2013 09:00
Not sure I understand this answer. Will the Poweredge 2950 run a raid using SATA drives or does it require them to be the more expensive SAS?
scooter250
131 Posts
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March 4th, 2013 10:00
Very much appreciate the detail of these replies. This is helping me (and others hopefully) understand this clearly.
So can I ask this... my needs are for capturing uncompressed video at around 30 to 35MB/sec. That's all this system will be used for. Capturing video for anywhere from just a few minutes to perhaps 30 minutes as a time. I will then lay off the file to a simple USB "jump" drive at what ever speed it will accept it after the capture.
The system will not be running 24/7. May be turned on for a hours or so a few times per week.
Knowing that, should I spring for the SAS drives or stick with SATA's? Since my space needs are not that great I would think SAS would be the way to go since I can get smaller ones. You seemed to suggest if using a PERC raid controller I'm locked into them anyway.
At 35MB/s what type of raid is best... running how many drives... at what size?
scooter250
131 Posts
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March 4th, 2013 13:00
Wow! This is fantastic information. Very much appreciated.
Clearly I'll need to make my choices carefully in order to achieve the speed I will need but from what you have provided and from what I received from Daniel last week it appears I can do what I need at a reasonable cost.
Thanks again!
scooter250
131 Posts
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March 5th, 2013 10:00
I have a question on Per5 vs Perc6, please.
You mentioned running Perc6 for all the speed tests you did. The 2950 (I just ordered a refurbished one) comes from Dell with a Perc5 daughter card. To purchase a Perc6 card is about the cost of what the whole 2950 just cost me. If I have to I have to but... how much of a speed loss should I expect running Perc5 with 15K SAS drives?