T140, SAS\SATA, H330 question

Unfortunately I still do not have the T140.
Moreover I do now care at all about RAID and I am not going to use it, but the special offer is on the model with H330 adapter.

OK that the internal SATA HDDs can be connected to both the motherboard's SATA connector or to the H330 SATA\SAS port.

Another question: starting from the point that I am not going to use RAID and I will use only SATA HDDs standalone disks... is there any advantage cabling SATA HDDs to the H330 versus the motherboard's SATA connector?

I would like to be sure that: once a SATA HDD is eventually plugged out from the T140 and moved to another server (with different brand, different controller, etc.) it is still accesible, since tipycally using RAID adapter even with no RAID configuration... the controller manages HDDs creating volumes in its way.

Check the box :) There is no reason why a SATA drive could not be plugged into the SAS controller (a SAS cable connector will take both SAS and SATA). If you ordered it with an S300, I would assume the drive would be connected to it.

Take the H330 out … there is no caching, so there is no value in using it in non-RAID (or even arguably IN RAID, because it is so low-end).

Are you planning to BOOT the disk in another machine? or just access its data? If connected to the motherboard (or the H330 when left unconfigured/non-RAID), it MAY boot in another machine, depending on hardware compatibility (chipset, boot mode, SATA mode, etc.).

To be clear: install ESXi on internal USB

- 1x 1 TB HDD with VMFS and some VM running inside

- 3x 4 TB HDD ext4 mounted as raw device by an Ubuntu VM acting as file server

I want to be sure that in case of any fault I can pull out the 3x 4 TB HDD and put them in another machine to access data.

I am NOT going to boot from these HDDs into another server.... just to be able to access data inside.

can you tell me if the cable that connects to SATA HDDs and to the SATA connector on the motherboard and the cable that connects to the PERC H330 is the same cable or not?

Hello,

reading the PERC H330 documentation, I see that it can be setup as:
- RAID
- NON-RAID (passthrough)
- HBA mode

what is the difference between NON-RAID\passthrough and HBA mode?

and what is the difference between the above two and the AHCI mode offered by the motherboard embedded controller?

what are you attempting , in the macro sense.  (end results)? (number of users, and data flows max, SQL?)

first off SATA is a sub set of SAS , in the SAS controller., so only cables and backplanes decide what works.

The system has a SATA by default, no raid card. lots of options new, not sure what you have.

I guess you are planning on H330 card, but didnt say why? 

AHCI is  feature of SATA controllers only, on SAS controller with SATA drives plugged in not SAS the SAS controllers uses more advances controllers, far better than any AHCI mode, made.

If you dought that , take a SSD and bench mark it on the SATA port on mobo then on the SAS cable set.

see that SAS RAID card beat that SATA direct port hands down,  (ive not done T140 , nor do i know what south bridge chip Dell users here or could give better hints, not in dells data sheets)

The only issues are speed. what speeds you want with the HDD. ?  preformance.

I can only guess with non raid setup speed is not the issue here, just  size and not doing production.,

Servers have many roles, (lab system/test and support system , production, home video servers, endless)

what it is used for is what matters,  in all cases unless just  learning box. as some are.

reading the PERC H330 documentation, I see that it can be setup as:
- RAID
- NON-RAID (passthrough)
- HBA mode

We all know what RAID means,  wiki RAID ,  Raid is for production, or for raw speed, say  lab or off line video rendering file server.?

But non RAID pass through and HBA , on most controller are the same, I guess the H330 is different .

HBA only means host bus adapter so can mean what ever dell wants .

The Passthrough mode would allow JBOD setup and software raid, but not the other 2.

If want to run software raid with that very expensive card (big time overkill that) then ask? why not use

a LSI fast and cheap HBA passthrough card,  or any passthrough card under $800, even for $50

"To be clear: install ESXi on internal USB

- 1x 1 TB HDD with VMFS and some VM running inside

- 3x 4 TB HDD ext4 mounted as raw device by an Ubuntu VM acting as file server

I want to be sure that in case of any fault I can pull out the 3x 4 TB HDD and put them in another machine to access data."

(what kind of data, home photo's or ?)

so if the HDD is a clean SATA drive not SAS and stripped , then

so you want to move  1 of 3 (4TB) drives to and alien machine (unknown?) and want to read the data.

answer 1 : do not use RAID, and only format it with only UBUNTU format, and the other machine has same OS running, if that is true , data may be there,(motor not dead) or you can buy very expensive forensic recovery software, to get some back, if you have sector rot, oops.

but you are really saying that you do not run backups here,  thus the recovery mode above.

RAID is not for backup  unless using system 2 as backup then turned off (cold retention) or LTO tape.

RAID is for production   Hope and real.

RAID also is for no down time,lf say running RAID 6 and 2 drives fail the data is still there and still backed up to LTO tape or backup server 2. 3,  etc. and runs slower until the drives , self rebuild.

RAID lets you pop in a new drive and it self heals it self.  (sure can)

what I am saying is what are your backup systems.?  we do not know that, the plan.

and your systems will based off all that.

I founder here not knowing system ROLE . sorry, but this is my best answer,. so far

HBA only means Host bus adapter,

HBA has many meaning to all card makers and OEM systems, (a fact covered in the wiki on topic HBA)

but this is what your H330 manual  states.:(linked at end a DELL URL)

the words pass-through does not show up in your manual at all , write-through yes.

so we have  red herring here,  3 modes but 2 exist. ? ok here is what is there.

quote;

HBA mode: In the HBA mode, PERC controller operates as Host Bus Adapter (HBA). This mode does not contain virtual disks or the ability to create them. All physical disks function as non-RAID disks under operating system control. The PERC card acts as a conduit between the host server and the physical disks. Input and output requests originate from the host and are passed through the controller to the physical drives. HBA mode is the approach used for Windows Storage Spaces.NOTE: HBA mode should be enabled for customers, using Microsoft Storage Spaces or VMware Virtual SAN. HBA mode allows the operating system to control backplane LED functionality on supported systems.NOTE: When the controller is in HBA mode, SMART monitoring is disabled.

My words now,, and THUS Smart can be scanned  with any generic smart application say crystaldiskinfo or the super amazing HDsentinal.(appl.)

that also means the LED on the hdd front slot, will no longer work for drive failures, controlled by the SMART RAID BIOS in the H330. (RAID smart controls are very smart and works as a team, to not let the OS see errors, a good thing)

the manual.

https://topics-cdn.dell.com/pdf/poweredge-rc-h330_users-guide_en-us.pdf

Here is my pep talk on S.M.A.R.T:  good to know : This happens mostly after  5 years old, 24/7 online.(stats)

When HDD runs out of spare clusters (autorepair dies), it is now a sick drive, unrecoverable errors, this is never good sending errors to any OS, so the raid card, tries to hide that, state, to the OS, this keeps the OS happy and the raid card tells you the drive is bad,many  ways (SSA and LED & DRAC?), and all data stays sound. (raid6, 2 drives bad, data still sound,) The manager then takes fast corrective action to avoid any 2nd drive going SICK .

(no mention of software raid by me, the endless story)

SICK means (my words) the unrecoverable status is non 0. (easy no?) The whole reason for SMART is that, to not have the array go dead,. wiki S.M.A.R.T . and read how say Seagate tells you how smart works on their end;.

learn how self repair works deep inside the drive logic and and support becomes vastly more easy.

bad sectors are logically swapped out, to good sectors, (magic of S.M.A.R.T)

even new drives in the factory this is done , and reset to zero , as no drive ever made was perfect day 1. (ask the maker)

The autorepair is on, day1, and set to zero,  and the number of spare sectors are FINITE. (this dictates HDD life spans)

All drives grow bad sectors, all do, every one ever made (or even go dead) but I'm talking here only sick.

Most drives that grow bad sectors tend to accelerate and a smart controller sees this and flags the disk as such.

It sees doom happening sooner that you. (Ignore this and you will  fail)

That is why RAID 5 fail at 5 years old,  one drive dies and the other 5 year old drive has only 1 spare sector left and the rebuild kills that dead  dead as 2 sectors die ( RAID 5 is no good, for any 5 year old system, but ok new, see?) see why?

end pep.

HDD have life span bath tube curve based on FACTs not MBTF (simulated bull)

The top server farms share this data, advice is read it.

good luck and good day.

so I got this Dell T140.

the PERC H330 is inside the unit and HDDs are connected to the H330 with a cable with 4 outlets.

The connector of the H330 is different than the connector on the motherboard; it means I can not remove the H330 and use the motherboard controller (I need a different cable that I do not have), so I must stay with the H330

The H330 manual talks about 3 different configs: RAID, NON RAID (also mentioned in the manual as passthrough) and HBA

I do not need and I do not want RAID. I want the the H330 does not alter HDDs, does not add informations and so on, in other words.... if this T140 fails, I can pull the HDDs out and plug them in another server without the H330, different brand, different technology. The above for the data HDDs, not for boot disks.

can not understand the difference between NON RAID (passthrough) and HBA mode.