OK, my first post went AWOL. I'll try to recreate it (ARGH).
Joyce, I agree it's ridiculous and frustrating. I've started experiencing the same thing on my 8300 with the 252S and the 616 DVD drive. Both dropped out of sight for no reason (there one night, come home next and their gone - event log shows two errors about the drives being removed before being stopped - like a similar USB error. Well, I certainly didn't "remove" them!
Make sure the drive configuration in BIOS Setup is correct - my 2nd IDE Channel was set to off (how I don't know I hadn't been in there in ages and I'd burned a CD with RecordNow! the previous week with no problem, now RecordNow claims there are no compatible recordable drives!). I set both IDE channels to Auto. Also make sure the channels are set for DMA in Device Manager in Windows.
Alternately, reboot to safe mode and remove the cd drives and ide controllers from device manager and reboot to have WinXP redetect them.
Another thought - (though I don't see my first reply yet...)
Have you tried going back to earlier restore points (assuming you're using WinXP)?
It would be very interesting to run a registry comparison utility when the drives are recognized and when they aren't and see what the differences are. In the resource kit there's regdmp - redirect it's output to a file, run it for both cases then compare the files. Maybe only use regdmp HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM or HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\HARDWARE.
If there's some difference that can be found - presumably set by WinXP when the drive doesn't respond properly or in time - then perhaps setting it back will fix things (after reboot probably). That could be put in a script which could be run quickly. Until Samsung/Dell come out with updated firmware for the 252S, which I'm beginning to believe is the problem.
I appreciate your thoughts.. however, I already ruled all that stuff out.
You see, these machines are Windows 2000 sp4 on an Active Directory network, standardized loads (all have same exact software and settings) where users are not administrators, nor power users, installs are prevented from running, internet settings are locked down so nothing can drive by install, registries are locked down. Heck, my users cannot even adjust the display or power settings of their machines - everything is locked down where they can't make any change which could possibly affect anything. Bios settings are password protected and are all factory on each of the machines. However, resetting back to factory was the first thing I did anyway. The machines themselves are actully ghosted images of the first same machine I recieved. By the way - some machines ghosted from this machine work fine for awhile and quit, others never worked. Some work fine. The only thing I see stay constant is that if I shut down the machine, remove the cd-rom, reboot the machine, install the cd-rom they work fine. I even ruled out the actual software. I removed it and strictly use Nero 6.0. The drives sometimes appear in device manager just fine, other times, no go, then appear with problems. Then I get that eject stuff.
I have found many documented problems with Samsung Combo drives - both on Dell's site and other forums stating they just disappear and have other issues. In reality, all of htis can probably be fixed by a bios update; however, that has yet to exist. So, I'm going to suggest to Dell to stop shipping with Samsung Combo drives, as that woudl seem to be the most prudent thing - at least until they can get it worked out.
I see. It does seem that the drives just run close to the edge performance-wise, close enough that occasionally (and not reliably reproducible - the kind of bugs I know *I* hate debugging) they don't respond to the OS inquiries in time and 2K/XP decides that means they've been removed. (Did you have errors in the Event Log?) And if they run close to the edge, all kinds of things could trigger it - program load on the PC, different activity loads on the drives, cabling connections that are just *that* much off, etc. You could try getting replacement drives like you said and may luck into good ones, but that's a lot of work/expense for no guaranteed success.
I agree that it's probably a drive firmware fix that's needed - and there is a R950 version on the Samsung site but as I think I said it won't load, Dell needs to get an OEM version from Samsung that will install on their drives. (Assuming the changes in 950 fix this.) My problem is just on my home machine (our work Dells are all older and don't have this problem), but you may have some clout, having all those machines, and might get somewhere if you ask for updated firmware or to have them stop shipping them (well, farther than I would get asking that!).
I did get my drive working again last night by (I think) doing a cold reboot and reinstalling the RecordNow! software (after uninstalling the IDE controller in Device Manager and rebooting I got the drives back but RecordNow didn't see the CD-RW as a recordable drive). If it happens again, I'll try a registry comparison. It'd be nice if there were some time-out related registry parameters for the device driver to try - something has to determine how long the OS waits until it declares a drive AWOL.
Hmmm - maybe this will help:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;817472 "IDE ATA and ATAPI Disks Use PIO Mode After Multiple Time-Out or CRC Errors Occur". Apparently it will be in XP SP2, not sure about 2K. To get the fix now you have to contact MS (and get routed to India, convince that person you really have that problem, get routed by the US and then get approval again, and get the download instructions). (The MS suggested workarond is to do an Uninstall of the IDE ATA/ATAPI Controller(s) in Device Manager and rebooting - maybe easier for you than physically removing the drives.) That may not fix your (or my) problem, but it sounds possible.
I found it and other possible solutions here: http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?threadid=60218 The two other ideas are registry tweaks to force UDMA66 mode on the drive, and/or to set "MasterDeviceTimingModeAllowed" or "SlaveDeviceTimingModeAllowed". These also may not help, but sound possible.
My friends at work recommend getting a replacement drive from Dell (as it's still in warranty) and I might if it happens again, but I'm thinking I'd rather spend the $40 and get a Lite-On drive (that comes with Nero and not RecordNow). Easy for me to say as it's only one drive, I know :) Harder to justify for you if you've got lots of machines.
Another thought - perhaps forcing the drives to back off and just run slower would help. Setting them to PIO-Mode 4 in Device Manager (and you might have to set the channels in the BIOS to something other than AUTO), and not trying to use the UDMA/66; or some other setting. Might help too (at the cost of performance obviously). If the MS hotfix and the registry tweaks above don't work, that might be something else to try.
Just thought those with these issues might be interested in this. I just posted it to the Optiplex CD/DVD forum here.
Our company bought a bunch of Optiplex 170L machines, all with these SW-252S drives. We're running Mandrake Linux 10.0 on them, so I can probably forget any support. But anyway here's what I'm seeing:
The drives appear to work flawlessly. Then for no reason after the machines have been up for a while, you can no longer open the tray, either with soft commands or manually using the button on the drive.
The system logs indicate that the ATAPI simply is timing out trying to send a command to the drive. Rebooting is the only fix.
Between this and everything else I've read on these forums about these drives, I really think they have a firmware problem. I read that Samsumg as a newer '950' firmware for the drive, but that it won't load on the Dell OEM drives(??). I can't find out at the moment, as Samsung in their infinite wisdom, writes firmware updates that can't be run from a boot floppy, and REQUIRE that the machine be running Windows. I won't even tell you what I think of that, or I'd get bounced from the forum...but I digress.
I see the same problem, and, like the rest, can find no solution ...
During configuration of my new Dell 360n Red Hat LINUX LE WS V3.0 with a Samsung CD-R/RW SW-252S isn't working correctly. Sometimes it won't respond to applications such as audio players such as kscd. A manual eject command at a terminal will hang and even the front panel open/close button won't work. There was a patch for the driver under Windows only, and, Dell support tried to tell me that my original OS was windows installed at the factory (gotta love those support folks) and that I would have to install my 'original' OS to install the patch. Well, my factory OS was LINUX and I can't find any solution. Has anyone just asked for a different model under warrenty and what was Dells response? Just checked Samsung again and no luck with driver/firmware for LINUX there. Looks like they are trying to obsolete this model (maybe Dell got a killer deal on dud drives and are trying to pawn them off on us??) Heh, conspiracies everywhere .... ;^)
Doesn't Dell support Linux as an installed option? You'd think they'd tell their tech.support people.
I haven't tried asking for a new drive - I wasn't sure it was the drive's fault and it hasn't been that big a problem since then and I figured I'd end up shelling out $50 for a better one (and/or a DVD writable drive) in the future.
But if there's a way to get them replaced, I'd go for it.
Well, what I did was talk with another Dell Service rep and he worked with me to try to find an update to the firmware that I could run under LINUX. He couldn't find one. I guess if I could find a bootleg windows CD I could do it that way but that would be dishonest ;^) So, Dell ended up giving me a credit for the Samsung CD-RW device and I used that to upgrade to a Dell CD-RW-DVD. My credit was $79 and the new one including overnight shipping came to $270. They get ya comming and going don't they?
This whole thing is getting ridiculous. Reading from a CD is one of the most generic things a PC can do. There are no drivers involved, and the OS (Windows or Linux) handles it natively.
What on earth should Windows chipset drivers have to do with being able to correctly use one specific model CD-RW drive when the cdrom IDE interfaces are essencially all the same.
What's more I'm fairly sure I've only seen one person here who seems to think the chipset drivers helped at all. Everyone else has these drives dropping off the face of the earth on both Windows and Linux. I still think it's a problem with the drive or it's firmware, even if it may only show up in conjunction with specific motherboards.
If this whole think continues the way it has so far, I think my solution may be to simply NEVER buy anything else from Dell ever again.
Oh by the way BolderBoy, if you were referring to a firware update for the SW-252S drive, there is brand new firmware available from Samsung (R951) that can be loaded from a DOS bootable floppy, though I had to google to find a link to the dos utility for loading the firmware, and it required using a force option to make the drive accept it.
However:
a) installing it on an OEM Dell Samsung driver voids your warantee.
b) we tried it on a few of our 80 Optiplex machines here and the drives work exactly as they did, and disappear exactly as they did.
We just bought a number of DELL Optiplex GX270 running Win2k SP4 (factory installs). After a few minutes of powering them on, some of them will DROP the CD-Rom drive and get an error much like unplugging a USB device. We cannot even manually eject them with the button. It's as if the CD-Rom drive gets no power. We checked the voltage and we get a constant +/-5v & 12v from the power supply.
To ensure the cd-rom stays on is to insert a cd into the drive as we power them on. Weird weird weird.
Rob Davenport
5 Posts
0
April 27th, 2004 15:00
OK, my first post went AWOL. I'll try to recreate it (ARGH).
Joyce, I agree it's ridiculous and frustrating. I've started experiencing the same thing on my 8300 with the 252S and the 616 DVD drive. Both dropped out of sight for no reason (there one night, come home next and their gone - event log shows two errors about the drives being removed before being stopped - like a similar USB error. Well, I certainly didn't "remove" them!
Make sure the drive configuration in BIOS Setup is correct - my 2nd IDE Channel was set to off (how I don't know I hadn't been in there in ages and I'd burned a CD with RecordNow! the previous week with no problem, now RecordNow claims there are no compatible recordable drives!). I set both IDE channels to Auto. Also make sure the channels are set for DMA in Device Manager in Windows.
Alternately, reboot to safe mode and remove the cd drives and ide controllers from device manager and reboot to have WinXP redetect them.
Also, some software may have mucked up the drivers. Check out http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;314060
http://www.Bustrace.com has some nice free utilities that might help diagnose things.
And along the registry idea - ftp://ftp6.nero.com/RegistryChecker.exe is a utility that some claim fixes the problem for them (I haven't tried it yet).
I've been scouring the forums at http://www.windrivers.com for Samsung 252S information, maybe you can find more info there too.
Rob Davenport
5 Posts
0
April 27th, 2004 15:00
Another thought - (though I don't see my first reply yet...)
Have you tried going back to earlier restore points (assuming you're using WinXP)?
It would be very interesting to run a registry comparison utility when the drives are recognized and when they aren't and see what the differences are. In the resource kit there's regdmp - redirect it's output to a file, run it for both cases then compare the files. Maybe only use regdmp HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM or HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\HARDWARE.
If there's some difference that can be found - presumably set by WinXP when the drive doesn't respond properly or in time - then perhaps setting it back will fix things (after reboot probably). That could be put in a script which could be run quickly. Until Samsung/Dell come out with updated firmware for the 252S, which I'm beginning to believe is the problem.
Rob
joyce.nord
4 Posts
0
April 27th, 2004 16:00
I appreciate your thoughts.. however, I already ruled all that stuff out.
You see, these machines are Windows 2000 sp4 on an Active Directory network, standardized loads (all have same exact software and settings) where users are not administrators, nor power users, installs are prevented from running, internet settings are locked down so nothing can drive by install, registries are locked down. Heck, my users cannot even adjust the display or power settings of their machines - everything is locked down where they can't make any change which could possibly affect anything. Bios settings are password protected and are all factory on each of the machines. However, resetting back to factory was the first thing I did anyway. The machines themselves are actully ghosted images of the first same machine I recieved. By the way - some machines ghosted from this machine work fine for awhile and quit, others never worked. Some work fine. The only thing I see stay constant is that if I shut down the machine, remove the cd-rom, reboot the machine, install the cd-rom they work fine. I even ruled out the actual software. I removed it and strictly use Nero 6.0. The drives sometimes appear in device manager just fine, other times, no go, then appear with problems. Then I get that eject stuff.
I have found many documented problems with Samsung Combo drives - both on Dell's site and other forums stating they just disappear and have other issues. In reality, all of htis can probably be fixed by a bios update; however, that has yet to exist. So, I'm going to suggest to Dell to stop shipping with Samsung Combo drives, as that woudl seem to be the most prudent thing - at least until they can get it worked out.
Rob Davenport
5 Posts
0
April 28th, 2004 12:00
I see. It does seem that the drives just run close to the edge performance-wise, close enough that occasionally (and not reliably reproducible - the kind of bugs I know *I* hate debugging) they don't respond to the OS inquiries in time and 2K/XP decides that means they've been removed. (Did you have errors in the Event Log?) And if they run close to the edge, all kinds of things could trigger it - program load on the PC, different activity loads on the drives, cabling connections that are just *that* much off, etc. You could try getting replacement drives like you said and may luck into good ones, but that's a lot of work/expense for no guaranteed success.
I agree that it's probably a drive firmware fix that's needed - and there is a R950 version on the Samsung site but as I think I said it won't load, Dell needs to get an OEM version from Samsung that will install on their drives. (Assuming the changes in 950 fix this.) My problem is just on my home machine (our work Dells are all older and don't have this problem), but you may have some clout, having all those machines, and might get somewhere if you ask for updated firmware or to have them stop shipping them (well, farther than I would get asking that!).
I did get my drive working again last night by (I think) doing a cold reboot and reinstalling the RecordNow! software (after uninstalling the IDE controller in Device Manager and rebooting I got the drives back but RecordNow didn't see the CD-RW as a recordable drive). If it happens again, I'll try a registry comparison. It'd be nice if there were some time-out related registry parameters for the device driver to try - something has to determine how long the OS waits until it declares a drive AWOL.
Hmmm - maybe this will help:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;817472 "IDE ATA and ATAPI Disks Use PIO Mode After Multiple Time-Out or CRC Errors Occur". Apparently it will be in XP SP2, not sure about 2K. To get the fix now you have to contact MS (and get routed to India, convince that person you really have that problem, get routed by the US and then get approval again, and get the download instructions). (The MS suggested workarond is to do an Uninstall of the IDE ATA/ATAPI Controller(s) in Device Manager and rebooting - maybe easier for you than physically removing the drives.) That may not fix your (or my) problem, but it sounds possible.
I found it and other possible solutions here: http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?threadid=60218 The two other ideas are registry tweaks to force UDMA66 mode on the drive, and/or to set "MasterDeviceTimingModeAllowed" or "SlaveDeviceTimingModeAllowed". These also may not help, but sound possible.
My friends at work recommend getting a replacement drive from Dell (as it's still in warranty) and I might if it happens again, but I'm thinking I'd rather spend the $40 and get a Lite-On drive (that comes with Nero and not RecordNow). Easy for me to say as it's only one drive, I know :) Harder to justify for you if you've got lots of machines.
I hope those other ideas above help.
Rob Davenport
5 Posts
0
April 28th, 2004 12:00
Another thought - perhaps forcing the drives to back off and just run slower would help. Setting them to PIO-Mode 4 in Device Manager (and you might have to set the channels in the BIOS to something other than AUTO), and not trying to use the UDMA/66; or some other setting. Might help too (at the cost of performance obviously). If the MS hotfix and the registry tweaks above don't work, that might be something else to try.
Rob
tdexter
63 Posts
0
May 27th, 2004 19:00
Our company bought a bunch of Optiplex 170L machines, all with these SW-252S drives. We're running Mandrake Linux 10.0 on them, so I can probably forget any support. But anyway here's what I'm seeing:
The drives appear to work flawlessly. Then for no reason after the machines have been up for a while, you can no longer open the tray, either with soft commands or manually using the button on the drive.
The system logs indicate that the ATAPI simply is timing out trying to send a command to the drive. Rebooting is the only fix.
Between this and everything else I've read on these forums about these drives, I really think they have a firmware problem. I read that Samsumg as a newer '950' firmware for the drive, but that it won't load on the Dell OEM drives(??). I can't find out at the moment, as Samsung in their infinite wisdom, writes firmware updates that can't be run from a boot floppy, and REQUIRE that the machine be running Windows. I won't even tell you what I think of that, or I'd get bounced from the forum...but I digress.
I really think these drives have a problem.
Tom
BolderBoy
2 Posts
0
June 9th, 2004 01:00
During configuration of my new Dell 360n Red Hat LINUX LE WS V3.0 with a Samsung CD-R/RW SW-252S isn't working correctly. Sometimes it won't respond to applications such as audio players such as kscd. A manual eject command at a terminal will hang and even the front panel open/close button won't work. There was a patch for the driver under Windows only, and, Dell support tried to tell me that my original OS was windows installed at the factory (gotta love those support folks) and that I would have to install my 'original' OS to install the patch. Well, my factory OS was LINUX and I can't find any solution. Has anyone just asked for a different model under warrenty and what was Dells response? Just checked Samsung again and no luck with driver/firmware for LINUX there. Looks like they are trying to obsolete this model (maybe Dell got a killer deal on dud drives and are trying to pawn them off on us??) Heh, conspiracies everywhere .... ;^)
Rob Davenport
5 Posts
0
June 9th, 2004 16:00
Doesn't Dell support Linux as an installed option? You'd think they'd tell their tech.support people.
I haven't tried asking for a new drive - I wasn't sure it was the drive's fault and it hasn't been that big a problem since then and I figured I'd end up shelling out $50 for a better one (and/or a DVD writable drive) in the future.
But if there's a way to get them replaced, I'd go for it.
BolderBoy
2 Posts
0
June 9th, 2004 17:00
Well, what I did was talk with another Dell Service rep and he worked with me to try to find an update to the firmware that I could run under LINUX. He couldn't find one. I guess if I could find a bootleg windows CD I could do it that way but that would be dishonest ;^) So, Dell ended up giving me a credit for the Samsung CD-RW device and I used that to upgrade to a Dell CD-RW-DVD. My credit was $79 and the new one including overnight shipping came to $270. They get ya comming and going don't they?
It's a solution anyway ....
tdexter
63 Posts
0
June 9th, 2004 18:00
What on earth should Windows chipset drivers have to do with being able to correctly use one specific model CD-RW drive when the cdrom IDE interfaces are essencially all the same.
What's more I'm fairly sure I've only seen one person here who seems to think the chipset drivers helped at all. Everyone else has these drives dropping off the face of the earth on both Windows and Linux. I still think it's a problem with the drive or it's firmware, even if it may only show up in conjunction with specific motherboards.
If this whole think continues the way it has so far, I think my solution may be to simply NEVER buy anything else from Dell ever again.
Tom
Message Edited by tdexter on 06-09-2004 03:11 PM
tdexter
63 Posts
0
June 9th, 2004 18:00
However:
a) installing it on an OEM Dell Samsung driver voids your warantee.
b) we tried it on a few of our 80 Optiplex machines here and the drives work exactly as they did, and disappear exactly as they did.
Tom
tmartinez2
3 Posts
0
September 21st, 2004 22:00
We just bought a number of DELL Optiplex GX270 running Win2k SP4 (factory installs). After a few minutes of powering them on, some of them will DROP the CD-Rom drive and get an error much like unplugging a USB device. We cannot even manually eject them with the button. It's as if the CD-Rom drive gets no power. We checked the voltage and we get a constant +/-5v & 12v from the power supply.
To ensure the cd-rom stays on is to insert a cd into the drive as we power them on. Weird weird weird.
DELL-Donald K
2 Intern
•
4K Posts
0
October 13th, 2004 05:00