Cannot boot from second HDD PATA drive in Dell 3100

Question

I have read about connecting a second HDD to the DELL dimension with a SATA drive already installed. I added a new HDD PATA drive 80GB using the IDE middle connector that runs to the CD/DVD drive. However, the BIOS is not sensing the drive and does not show up in the CMOS setup.   I can see the drive in Windows explorer and access it but CMOS does not sense it. It is a slave drive and the jumper settings are for slave - i.e no jumpers on it. - SAMSUNG SP0822N 80GB - 7200rpm.   What is the problem here?. Anyone know?. How do I resolve this issue.   What is it that I have to change from the hardware side in order for CMOS to identify the drive.   Note: I need to transfer all my data from the PATA IDE drive to the SATAdrive. Actually, I need to clone the SATA drive with what is on the PATA drive.   Any help is greatly appreciated as I am wasting my time trying all combinations here.

EMT64 · Answer

Try to change the PATA HD jumpers to CS (cable select) and reset the NVRAM.

EMT64 · Answer

The NVRAM (non-volatile RAM) stores information about some hardware resources of your computer, like IRQs, DMAs, IDE devices, SATA devices, CPU and other devices.

Did you change the jumper #1 or #14?

If you did it in jumper #1, you already reseted the NVRAM (non-volatile RAM)

If you did it in jumper #14, you disabled the system setup password.

But you said the computer doesn't start up when you did it, then I'm sure you reseted the NVRAM. But I sure the original setting wasn't with the pin 3 open... because when you reset the NVRAM your computer will not start up.

Ceecil · Answer

Pardon my ignorance, What is NVRAM?.   I have tried the jumper on CS. I will check that with hte manual again, but the result seems the same.   I must add that I took out the jumper on the motherboard and place it on the pins 2 and 3 leaving pin 1 open. I had to do this because with the original setting on pins 1 and 2, it is not powering on. Or I have to remove that jumper on the motherboard.

Ceecil · Answer

Let me first answer your question before I go off on a tangent. I am grateful to you for your help esepcially for the picture.   I removed only Jumper #1 and tried it on various combinations.  Now, here is what I am sure that I found.   It starts with the original jumper#1 setting on pins 1 and 2 when the PATA drive is not connected.   It starts with Jumper#1 on pins 2 and 3 as well when I connected the PATA drive and set it to cable select.   Note: I can see the drive and all it's partitions in Explorer and I can access them. But I need CMOS to sense the drive first in order to try and boot from that drive as it is a cloned disk. (I had tested this drive on my other PC and it booted up before)   Once, I get CMOS to see the drive and boot from it, I can make the SATA drive the slave and then clone that disk and then boot from that STA drive only. (the OS and data on the PATA drive is very important and avoids the complex installation of ERM s/w applications again)   As of now, I have booted the machine on all occassions. The present setting is Jumper #1  on pin 2 and 3 with PATA drive on cable select.

EMT64 · Answer

I think this machine can't boot from a slave IDE device.   Try to set the CD/DVD drive as 1st boot device in system setup, then swap the IDE connections between CD/DVD and PATA HD. I will set the HD as master and CD/DVD drive as slave.

Ceecil · Answer

This is the present status after playing around with the system.

1. Connected the PATA IDE drive as a slave with the middle connector of the IDE cable.

2. Connected the SATA drive as the rpimary master - original setting with system

3. Changed the jumper#1 to pins 2 and 3.

4. Set the jumper on the salve PATA drive to cable select.

5. Started the system from cold start.

The system started without a problem and DID NOT give any error message that this could not be sensed and that could not be sensed. So, I guess all the drives are being identified at startup. However, I would want to change the setting at Startup to make sure that I can boot from the slave. Is that possible?.

If that does not work, I will try what you suggested and make the PATA drive the primary master by using the CD/DVD cable connector end and leave the middle dangling. Shall get back to you about the status.

Ceecil · Answer

This is what I noticed with regard to what I wrote in the previous post. The CMOS setting had changed showing that the primary IDE slave was OFF and the Floppy drive and SATA 0 was OFF. I don;t know how and why it changed. The Jumper #1 was on pins 2 and 3.

I made the floppy drive in CMOS to USB.

I made the SATA 0 ON and primary IDE 1 as slave - the CD/DVD is IDE 0.

When I boot the system, it gives and error saying that SATA 0 is not found and primary IDE slave not found. However, it dtill boots from the STAT 0 drive. Rather strange if it says not found.

EMT64 · Answer

Follow these steps:

1. Disconnect all external cables from computer (power cable, video, usb, parallel,...)

2. Open the cover

3. Connect the SATA hard disk in the port SATA0

4. Connect the PATA hard disk in the connector at end of IDE cable

5. Disconnect the connector at middle of IDE cable from anything

6. Press the power button of computer

7. Put the jumper#1 in 1-2, wait few seconds and put it back in 2-3

8. Reconnect all external cables and turn on the computer

9. Enter in system setup and check the boot order

If you have any problem, I'll be back on monday... Have a good weekend!

Ceecil · Answer

I did what you had mentioned. I made the PATA IDE drive the primary master and set the jumper to boot from that drive. It begins to boot up but hangs. Basically, it starts off with the gray bar that runs at the bottom with the wrds Starting Windows and just hangs there for ever.   I am not sure what to do now as this has been a nightmare. I could have started the inatllation of Windows and all the applications gaina but it will be too much work and too much of trouble for the time being. The installation and configuration of the applications is tough and that is why I cloned the disk. Surprisingly, the other disk that I had cloned worked well and booted up.

Ceecil · Answer

Here is the status:   Connected the PATA IDE drive as Primary Master to boot from. Disconected cable from CD/ROM Connect Serial ATA as slave.   Booted from PATA IDE and hit F8 to repair Directory services as this is a domain controller. Then booted normally after repair. Directory services error. Realized that it is not able to find ntds.dit   Reason: The PATA drive's structure was C:, E: F: G: and D: was the CD/ROM. Now since D: is disconnected, the system reads the HDD as C, D, E, F  I think, so it is not bale to find the ntds.dit in the right directory as required by the registry.   Http://www.microsoft.com/?id=240362   to resolve the problem with ntds.dit   Shall get back when this has been resolved.

EMT64 · Answer

Can the computer boot from old IDE if you connect the CD drive as primary slave?

Ceecil · Answer

Let me update you on what I actually did and attempted to do.

I did an install of WIn2k Server and made it a domain controller. I had partitioned the disk that came and it ended up with C, E and F (D was taken by the CD/ROM and I regret that now). I had to install and configure AD on the server for the domain and stuff which I had no clue about but I finally succeede. I installed a global Oracle application and made this the DB server and configure Oracle and then the application to work.

Then I cloned the disk on to the PATA drive and then returned the system to the company for which I did the installation. I got two new machines of the same type DELL Dimension 3100 and decided to just put in the disk and boot but since it was a PATA drive, I began to have the problem that I first mentioned about booting.

After playing around with the system, I finally managed to boot the system from the PATA drive after I connected it directly as the Primary master. But I hit a snag. It gave me a Directory Services restore error. I then booted again and pressed F8 to repair the system. When I booted normal, it gave me an error again saying Driectory serviuces restore - (I beleive that it could not locate the DB for the Directory services that Active Directory is stored).

After repairing the system in SAFE mode (F8) - and choosing Dir services restore mode, I typed the admin password and it came to C:>. Then I typed ntdsutil files info. Here it gives me an error that it cannot locate the Database Ntds.dit The default directory for these files is C:\WINNT\system32 and I actually see the file ntds.dit there but the registry is pointing to something else.

It is trying to find the files in E:\WINNT\NTDS and it does not find it. The reason being that this C:> prompt is not the normal prompt I think. When I checked the registry, for Controlset - parameters, here also it says Directory database E:\WINNT\NTDS and the same for the backup and log file.

What I don't understand is how does it show E:\WINNT\NTDS - I don't get that. Even if the disk was partitioned as C, E and F with the installation, it should be the same as when I inserted it into the new system or it should be partitions C. D, E. Just don't know.

==============================================================

So, I tried to connect the PATA drive as a slave although it does not identify it in the boot sequence. This time, I booted the system from the original SATA drive that came with the new system. I checked in explorer to see the PATA IDE drive. It shows me the drive with partitions E, F, G. I have now found that that the directory is in the second partition as \WINNT\NTDS. Maybe, I will copy these files into C:\WINNT\System32 and try to boot from the PATA IDE drive after making it master.

I believe that when I installed Active driectory, the instructins may have been to install the DB on a separate partition just to be safe. That's a joke now.

Ceecil · Answer

FInally, after the trial and error, things have been sorted out. However, each time I booted the machine, I set the Boot squence in CMOS. One of the problems that I faced was the drive assignment letters by Windows. For some reason, it assigns the CDROM drive D and another G even though I have only CD/DVD drive. I am not sure from where or why it assigns a drive letter to Compact disk.

I found that the Directory services error was due to the fact that the system could not read or locate the DB as it was on a different partition. When booting in SAFE mode, it identifies only C: partition for some reason. Then I located the partitions in Computer Management - Menu - Disk management. There I renamed the partitions that were not assigned when I booted in SAFE mode.

I copied the DB files and the log files to C:\WINNT\NTDS (created a dir). Edited the registry entry HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE to reflect the new location of the AD database that is needed by Directory Services to start. MAde sure that permissions were Full control for Administrator and System.

Rebooted the machine with PATA drive as master and it booted normally. Problem solved.

Thank you for all your help and assistance to try and resolve this issue.

EMT64 · Answer

I hope I have helped you anyway. You are welcome to the Dell Community Forum!

Storage, Drives & Media

Cannot boot from second HDD PATA drive in Dell 3100

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