Help please! How do I install Win98 on XPS Gen3?

Question

Hi,   Can I install Win98 on my XPS Gen3? It seems like there is some problem... like the system is too powerful for Win98 or something. I tried installing 98 in the past, on the same system, but on the first start (after the installation) system freezes. There was also an error message about some file which I don't remember right now. I spent a couple of months on Internet looking for answer with no luck (and yes... I did call Dell support and they said that I should be able to do so but really they didn't know how). What's wrong and why can't I install 98 on this system.   I tried installing 98 on an older system and it worked without any problems therefore the win98 CD is OK.   I am trying to have a dual boot Win98/WinXP Pro. I want to be able to play older games I have (those games just don't work on XP at all). And yes, I did try to install Win98 on C drive and XP on D drive. I also have all the drivers for 98 (I just can't use them).   My specs are: Dell XPS Gen3, Win XP Pro with SP2, P4 3.4GHz Extreme Edition, 2GB RAM, Radeon X800XT and Creative Audigy.   Thank you for your help. Message Edited by Converter on 11-09-2005 09:44 AM

Converter · Answer

Thanks a lot Majestic. I'll try it as soon as I get home from work. Have a good day. Message Edited by Converter on 11-09-2005 09:59 AM

Majestic · Answer

Your problem with the Win 98 install maybe related to the amount of RAM you have installed on your system.  Some operating system installation programs, especially the older Windows versions, only use a small portion of the RAM for the installation and can't function on systems where there are gigs of it installed like yours.  The solution to try is go into your BIOS Setup and turn On the option for OS Install Mode.  By enabling this option the system will limit the amount of RAM the OS installation program uses.  Give it a try and see if resolves the problem you are experiencing.  Don't forgot to turn the option Off when you are done.   Click here for the on-line User Guide and the section pertaining to the BIOS Setup for your model. Message Edited by Majestic on 11-09-2005 09:44 AM

Converter · Answer

I just got back home from work. I went to my BIOS and there is no OS Install Mode anywhere in it. I called Dell support but they couldn't tell me why this function is not in my BIOS. I've heard before that the memory amount installed on my system could be the problem for 98 so I think you're right Majestic. But the question here is: what can I do now? Is there any other way to install Win98 on this system? I know that there must be a way to do it.

Thanks in advance.

Message Edited by Converter on 11-09-2005 06:14 PM

Majestic · Answer

Well according the on-line User Guide I was looking at the BIOS option for the OS Install Mode should have been listed under the Post Behavior heading of the BIOS Setup.  Since it would appear this on-line User Guide covers just about all of the Gen systems, it is possible that BIOS option was found on one of the earlier Gen models and was then eliminated later on.   I suspect though that you have two 1 gig memory modules installed in your system.  Have you considered pulling one of the modules and then see if Win 98 will install with just 1 gig of RAM on board?

Converter · Answer

Majestic,

I thought about removing 1 GB but I would prefer not to unless it's the only thing that's left to do. Have you heard maybe of any fixes for Win98, like fixed files, *.bat or something like that, that would allow the installation on systems with large amounts of memory? Look, if I remove 1GB isn't 1GB that left still too much for 98?

I would really prefer to find some "fix" just because of my system's location. I'll look on-line. But if you come across something like that please let me know unless you have other suggestions.

Thanks a lot my friend.

Majestic · Answer

' Look, if I remove 1GB isn't 1GB that left still too much for 98?'   I checked around on-line this morning and found several sites that state Windows 98 will work with 2 gigs of RAM so I don't think that will be a problem once it is installed.  Do you recall the error message you were getting when trying to install it?  If I remember correctly I believe the installation program creates a RAMDrive during the installation process.  It could be at this point where the installation program is having a problem with the 2 gigs of RAM.    Another thing I thought of is your hard drive.  Do you have an S-ATA drive or a P-ATA drive?  If the only drive is a SATA configured as a RAID then that might also be the problem.  During the installation of Windows XP with a SATA RAID configuration you have to install the RAID driver.  With Windows 98 this step may not be possible.

Converter · Answer

Majestic,

I found some sites that state Win98 working with 2GB RAM as well. But, I also found some that state that Win98 cannot handle more than 1GB and some that 768MB is the max for them. Some even suggested that the perfect amount is 512MB. I don't know why so many different opinions. I think you're right though when you say that the amount of memory is the problem. The thing is to find a way to "fool" Windows into seeing less memory than actually is on the system, or at least during the installation anyway.

"Do you recall the error message you were getting when trying to install it?"

Actually I had two error messages on two occasions. One was: Insufficient memory to initialize Windows. And the other one was: Quit one or more memory-resident programs or remove unnecessary utilities from your CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT files, and restart your computer. I suspect that one, or both, of those files hold the answer for my problem.

My both hard drives are SATA. But I don't recall ever installing RAID drivers (and I re-installed the OS three or four times).

I will try to install Win98 and play with those two files from those error messages after I submit this message and I'll let you know.

Thanks a lot for your time my friend.

Message Edited by Converter on 11-11-2005 06:34 PM

Converter · Answer

Majestic,

I managed to install Win98 on 100GB hard drive and with 2GB memory. To fool 98 into not seeing the 2GB I added a line MaxPhysPage=30000 in system.ini.

But now I have another problem. I get error message about MSGSRV32 caused an invalid page fault in module kernel32.exe when I start the Windows. Microsoft site is not very helpful about that problem. Any ideas?

Thanks

Message Edited by Converter on 11-11-2005 10:06 PM

Majestic · Answer

Glad to hear it installed. :smileyvery-happy:   When Windows boots up have you tried pressing the F8 key to go into the Windows Boot menu and then selecting the line by line confirmation option for startup?  I've found this useful in tracking down Windows start up problems.

Converter · Answer

Majestic,   Yes I tried F8 and it would always freeze on 'loading Windows GUI' or something like that.   You were so right about the hard drive. Although the hard drive is not RAID Win98 cannot handle the size of it (it's 250GB, the second one is 100GB but I forgot that a year ago I switched them). So I got it working by doing something else instead. I started clean.   I put WinXP CD and created two partitions, the first one about 32GB and the second one the rest of it. I formatted the first one using Win98 CD (FAT32 of course) and Installed 98 on it. I got into some problems with memory, MaxPhysPage=30000 (it makes Win98 to see only 768MB RAM) took care of that and allowed me to finish installation. Then I run into more problems (not surprise here) with vnetbios.vxd and ndis.vxd both old versions so they couldn't handle system like I have. I had to download and replace them with newer versions. Now 98 works good. There is still a problem when I'm trying to boot in safe mode. It gives me the same error messages about the memory. I guess when you try to boot in safe mode 98 sees all 2GB of RAM and of course fails to load. I don't know why. Maybe it doesn't read the system.ini file since in safe mode it loads only the essentials. Let's hope that I won't ever need to boot Win98 in safe mode.   Then I put the XP CD back in and formatted the second partition (NTFS of course). I installed XP Pro (no problems here) which also gave me a boot manager. When I boot now I have two choices 1. Microsoft Windows XP Pro and 2. Microsoft Windows (which is Win98).   This way all that hard drive space it's not wasted since Win98 cannot see it all anyway. I don't even think there is a fix from Microsoft for Win98 and hard drives of this size since Microsoft doesn't support anything below Win2000 anymore.   The only thing that left now is to try to install and run a game (on 98 that is).   I'll do it now and let you know. Thanks buddy. Message Edited by Converter on 11-12-2005 08:03 PM

Majestic · Answer

'Maybe it doesn't read the system.ini file since in safe mode it loads only the essentials.'   That's correct.  In safe mode Windows only loads the minimum number of driver and system files needed to get Windows up and running.  Apparently it is skipping over the needed fix in the System.ini file.  Since future use of Safe mode isn't an option, what I would do is make a backup of the Win98 partition once you have it setup the way you want.  That way in the event of future problems that can't be resolved without Safe mode you could just restore the partition and thus save yourself a lot of work.  On my system when I added a third hard drive I just copied the entire contents of my Win98 partition to another partition on the new drive.  Since my system allows me to individually select the hard drive in which to boot from, I always have a working copy of Win98 in the event of problems to either hard drive.   'I don't even think there is a fix from Microsoft for Win98 and hard drives of this size since Microsoft doesn't support anything below Win2000 anymore.'   Microsoft is still providing limited support to Win98 in regards to security updates and critical issues and will be for a little while longer.   Unfortunately they will never release a fix to over come 137 gig hard drive limitation.  There is an Intel Application Accelerator chipset driver that overcomes this limitation for Windows 98, but that application isn't supported by your system's 925x chipset.

Converter · Answer

Majestic,   I had some problems with graphics card (Radeon X800 XT) drivers. Although I found some that seem to work (Catalyst 4.11). That one supports my card and supposably is writen for 98 as well. I had some problems with installation of it but it looks like it's working now.   The big problem is finding sound card drivers (Creative Audigy 2) for 98. I tried their website but it looks like they removed them. I got some from DriverGuide but they don't work. I tried Google but not much luck. Any ideas? You see the card came with the system so I have the recovery disk with XP drivers only and not the original CD from Creative. The original CD has the drivers from 98 to XP but unfortunatelly I don't know anyone that would have this specific model. So now I have working copy of Windows 98 without sound. Can't play any games yet.   If you have any ideas where I could find better drivers for Radeon X800 XT and the correct drivers for Audigy 2 (both for 98) I would greatly appreciate it.   Also, thanks for the suggestion to backup the entire Win98 partition to another hard drive. I did it as soon as I read your post.   Thanks buddy.

Majestic · Answer

I just checked Creative's web site and found drivers for the Audigy 2 and Win98SE......  click here.   Unless I'm looking at the wrong version of the Audigy 2 card.  I see for the 'value' card there are no drivers.  If you have the 'value' card, I see where their web site has an option to contact their tech support.  Might be worth sending them an e-mail to see if the drivers are indeed available and possibily a source for them.    For the video drivers click here for one site I found that offers older drivers.  They offer Catalyst 4.11 and earlier.  You might also try posting in the Dimension - Video forum to see if someone else has an additional suggestion.

Converter · Answer

Majestic,   Thanks a lot for the link to the video drivers. I'm downloading some right now to try them.   As for Audigy 2 you're right, I went on many websites and there are no drivers for Win98. They have a driver for 98SE but I've already tried that one and it doesn't work on 98. I downloaded some other ones that supposable work on all the Win versions but I won't know that until I'll try them.    Why drivers for 98SE don't work on 98? Would it be better for me to just try to find Win98SE? It seems like 98SE have more support (at least when it comes to drivers). Is there a service pack for 98 that would upgrade it to 98SE or do I have to find the actual Win98SE CD?   Thanks.

Majestic · Answer

With what you are trying to do Win98SE might be a better way to go.  In order to do the upgrade you will need to find a Windows 98SE CD or a Windows 98SE upgrade CD.  I know you can still find sites on-line that offer new copies of 98SE, but I would think with the popularity of Windows XP there has to be some used copies of 98SE that people would want to part with cheap.......  just did a search and on E-Bay there's a upgrade CD starting bid for $7.50.....  click here.   A check of PriceWatch shows on-line retailers with 98SE for as low as $48 and free shipping.  Click here for PriceWatch's site..... towards the middle of the page look under the Software heading for the Operating Systems catagory.  Message Edited by Majestic on 11-16-2005 08:21 AM

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