I am not sure why you want to remove the 30mb hidden partition. That is the dell hardware diagnostic partition/utility partition that runs when you hit F12 at boot and select diags/utility partition. You can not edit the bios boot menu (as far as removing or adding entries). You can only edit the OS boot menu (the one you get when pressing F8).
As I said before, the menu you get when you press f12 at the dell screen can NOT be edited. It is a part of the bios software. That is not the os boot menu but the system boot menu.
You CAN edit the OS boot menu which is the one you see if you hit F8 right after the dell screen goes away. You can edit this one with the BCDEdit function or a program like easybcd 2.0 beta
If you keep the support disks that came with your system then by all means blast away that 30mb partiton ^_^
John, As for the 30mb hidden partition, I see no value. I have a copy of the Diagnostics that is stored there. I have deleted the Vista image file and its containing partition - so what else is there of value. So how do you edit the OS boot menu?
John, I hope you have them back words, but if not be gentle. Pressing F8, the information you indicate can be edited, is the Advanced Boot Options screen with the first "Repair Your Computer", the next three "Save Mode" and expansions, and finally after several others "Start Windows Normally." I have no interest in changing these. Now F12 brings up a screen stating"Please select boot device" and listed there are my SATA hard drive, CD/DVD drive, Diagnostics and Boot to Utility Partition. This is the menu I want to edit and which you state cannot be edited.
Actually I do not know why I told you that you can remove options from the F8 startup menu. You can not edit that (easily). You can also not remove devices from the F12 menu either. That menu is hard coded into the bios. It just shows what physical devices are supported to boot off of your computer. If you have a proper multiboot setup you will also get a menu when you turn your computer on (without pressing anything) that will list off your installed Oporating Systems and it will ask you to choose one and press enter (or will select the default one ater 30 seconds). This is the menu that is editable with the BCDedit or the program I listed before. This is the menu that lets you choose which OS is starting.
Now in the BIOS of your system you can change the order of the F12 boot menu (atleast in respect to which device the computer will boot from on its own) but you can not physically remove an entry.
Again I appologise for giving you incorrect info on the F8 menu, I have no clue what I was thinking xD
I have a Dell PWS 7400 with Windows 7 Ultimate. I replace the system disk with a non-Dell one, no diagnostic partition. It has a 100 MB system reserve and and the rest of the disk ic "C". I did not install Dell Diagnmostics. When I boot the system and then hi F12 I get the following screen display
If I choose to run diagnostics, but they are not running from the non-existance diagnostic partition, because, at the end of the diagnostics the following message is displayed "Pre-boot system assesment complete. No Disgnostic Utility Partition Identified.
This proves three things
The F12 message is from the ROM.
Some level of diagnostics are in the ROM
THe F12 message makes sense, since there are diagnostics available, and should not be changed, even if you were to write your own ROM.
This all makes sense, since it provides a easy method to run diagnostics even if the system has just bee replaced.
What I thought might be a simple problem is becoming very complex. What msgale pointed out about the F12 display is consistant with mine but certainly must be controlled by the BIOS setup. I show the internal hard dive, then the CD/DVD drive and third a Seagatge Xtreme that I have attached to the UJSBN and finally the Diagnostics and Boot to Utility Partition. So where ever this information is stored it is also capable of reading the attached drives becuase it has clearly identified both make and model of the Seagate. However from msgale's comment, it is not smart enough to realize that the Diagnostics are no longer on his hard drive (if I read him correctly). I should get up my nevers and delete the 30MB hidden partion at the start of my hard drive and see the Dianostics and Boot to Utiliuty Partion options are sitll there.
John, I accepted that it is hard coded to list the devices that are attached but it certainly identifies make and model of each attachment, which certainly is not hard coded. Are you saying that the item "Diagnostic" and "Boot to Utility Partitioning" are hard coded and if you delete the hidden partition where I know Diagnostic points, "Diagnostic" it will still be displayed and if selected hopefully display an error ?
yes it will detect and update on usb devices (because you can boot to certain usb devices). But as I said before you can not change these, it is hard coded into the system (by being a part of the bios). Removing the utility partition will not remove them. Its not a matter of detection of the partitions that place them there.
exactly (although a basic form of diags will run on most systems even when the partition is deleted).
think of it this way, the software that generates those entries are hard coded. not really the text persay. Its just the software only checks for USB devices and updats on those. It has no reason to check for a change in the utility partition or the recovery partition because for all dell reasoning should not be removed. I promise you this.
John, I finally hear you. I just removed the hidden tag from the Dell partition at the beginning of the HD. There was a diag folder within but the exe would not run, indicating I was running the wrong OS (although I thought a hardware diag, must have been entwined with Vista). The other files were unneeded, so I deleted the whole partition and absorbed into my C drive where Windows 7 reside. Now pressing F12 after power up produced the same display as before and as you advised. I selected Diagnostics and again as you indicated it went through an extensive series of test on timing, HD, Optical Drive, Video Card and Memory. It then reported "No Diagnostic Utility Partition Identified" which of course I had deleted. Next I tried the "Boot to Utility Partition" and it just flashed and rebooted into Windows 7. So I have learned much, although its usefulness in debatable . I do think that I might build my next computer from components hoping I will do enough investigation to avoid surprises. My last there computers have all been Dell's and I do recommend to Friend,s but I think I will reject that advise and build - hopefully less surprises and certainly not the buckets full of what I consider useless software that I have to search and delete to achieve what I call a clean system - and I am not clean net - just keep finding pieces.
I understand where you are coming from. You kinda have to look at it like this though, several companies like hp, dell, gateway, and sony sell systems at a really cheap price considering how much the hardware and support actually costs. For example, there are some pretty decent mobile systems that sell for $299. They do this by including bundled software which they recieve compensation for. You can actually opt out of this on some systems but it will cost you a bit more. I figure just buy the cheap one, then freshly install the OS and drivers yourself that away you get the good price and a clean system free of software you dont want.
I have always shied away from the cheap but only because just too lazy to research each of the important components such as processor, HD and video card. I always felt Dell did one of the best jobs of putting packages together all with good choices. As indicated will look harder at the bargains next time and as indicated consider building my self and then comparing that price to having built. Would be nice to have a clean machine to start
In the near term I do have a need to run Office 2007, or the beta of 2010 (actually only the Access module), and my first attempt with simply adding in a separate folder on my old XP did not work - program kept hanging, quiting and wanting to send Gates the message. I have read of problems multiple versions of office - so thus my interest in either dual booting or booting to an external. Have also realize that running an older OS like XP on my new computer with SATA drive will introduce need for other drivers (more work and problems) so since I have a copy of Vista (although much larger) should just learn to install that as a dual boot and thereby keep the new Office versions completely separate.
John_Bush
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January 15th, 2010 08:00
I am not sure why you want to remove the 30mb hidden partition. That is the dell hardware diagnostic partition/utility partition that runs when you hit F12 at boot and select diags/utility partition. You can not edit the bios boot menu (as far as removing or adding entries). You can only edit the OS boot menu (the one you get when pressing F8).
John_Bush
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January 15th, 2010 09:00
As I said before, the menu you get when you press f12 at the dell screen can NOT be edited. It is a part of the bios software. That is not the os boot menu but the system boot menu.
You CAN edit the OS boot menu which is the one you see if you hit F8 right after the dell screen goes away. You can edit this one with the BCDEdit function or a program like easybcd 2.0 beta
If you keep the support disks that came with your system then by all means blast away that 30mb partiton ^_^
Bitz106
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January 15th, 2010 09:00
John, As for the 30mb hidden partition, I see no value. I have a copy of the Diagnostics that is stored there. I have deleted the Vista image file and its containing partition - so what else is there of value. So how do you edit the OS boot menu?
Ed
Bitz106
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January 15th, 2010 10:00
John, I hope you have them back words, but if not be gentle. Pressing F8, the information you indicate can be edited, is the Advanced Boot Options screen with the first "Repair Your Computer", the next three "Save Mode" and expansions, and finally after several others "Start Windows Normally." I have no interest in changing these. Now F12 brings up a screen stating"Please select boot device" and listed there are my SATA hard drive, CD/DVD drive, Diagnostics and Boot to Utility Partition. This is the menu I want to edit and which you state cannot be edited.
Ed
John_Bush
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January 15th, 2010 11:00
Actually I do not know why I told you that you can remove options from the F8 startup menu. You can not edit that (easily). You can also not remove devices from the F12 menu either. That menu is hard coded into the bios. It just shows what physical devices are supported to boot off of your computer. If you have a proper multiboot setup you will also get a menu when you turn your computer on (without pressing anything) that will list off your installed Oporating Systems and it will ask you to choose one and press enter (or will select the default one ater 30 seconds). This is the menu that is editable with the BCDedit or the program I listed before. This is the menu that lets you choose which OS is starting.
Now in the BIOS of your system you can change the order of the F12 boot menu (atleast in respect to which device the computer will boot from on its own) but you can not physically remove an entry.
Again I appologise for giving you incorrect info on the F8 menu, I have no clue what I was thinking xD
msgale
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January 15th, 2010 12:00
I have a Dell PWS 7400 with Windows 7 Ultimate. I replace the system disk with a non-Dell one, no diagnostic partition. It has a 100 MB system reserve and and the rest of the disk ic "C". I did not install Dell Diagnmostics. When I boot the system and then hi F12 I get the following screen display
Boot From
-----------------------------------------------------
If I choose to run diagnostics, but they are not running from the non-existance diagnostic partition, because, at the end of the diagnostics the following message is displayed "Pre-boot system assesment complete. No Disgnostic Utility Partition Identified.
This proves three things
This all makes sense, since it provides a easy method to run diagnostics even if the system has just bee replaced.
John_Bush
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January 15th, 2010 12:00
yes sir that is exactly correct!
Bitz106
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January 15th, 2010 12:00
What I thought might be a simple problem is becoming very complex. What msgale pointed out about the F12 display is consistant with mine but certainly must be controlled by the BIOS setup. I show the internal hard dive, then the CD/DVD drive and third a Seagatge Xtreme that I have attached to the UJSBN and finally the Diagnostics and Boot to Utility Partition. So where ever this information is stored it is also capable of reading the attached drives becuase it has clearly identified both make and model of the Seagate. However from msgale's comment, it is not smart enough to realize that the Diagnostics are no longer on his hard drive (if I read him correctly). I should get up my nevers and delete the 30MB hidden partion at the start of my hard drive and see the Dianostics and Boot to Utiliuty Partion options are sitll there.
Ed
Bitz106
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January 15th, 2010 13:00
John, I accepted that it is hard coded to list the devices that are attached but it certainly identifies make and model of each attachment, which certainly is not hard coded. Are you saying that the item "Diagnostic" and "Boot to Utility Partitioning" are hard coded and if you delete the hidden partition where I know Diagnostic points, "Diagnostic" it will still be displayed and if selected hopefully display an error ?
Bitz
John_Bush
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January 15th, 2010 13:00
yes it will detect and update on usb devices (because you can boot to certain usb devices). But as I said before you can not change these, it is hard coded into the system (by being a part of the bios). Removing the utility partition will not remove them. Its not a matter of detection of the partitions that place them there.
John_Bush
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January 15th, 2010 14:00
exactly (although a basic form of diags will run on most systems even when the partition is deleted).
think of it this way, the software that generates those entries are hard coded. not really the text persay. Its just the software only checks for USB devices and updats on those. It has no reason to check for a change in the utility partition or the recovery partition because for all dell reasoning should not be removed. I promise you this.
Bitz106
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January 15th, 2010 15:00
John, I finally hear you. I just removed the hidden tag from the Dell partition at the beginning of the HD. There was a diag folder within but the exe would not run, indicating I was running the wrong OS (although I thought a hardware diag, must have been entwined with Vista). The other files were unneeded, so I deleted the whole partition and absorbed into my C drive where Windows 7 reside. Now pressing F12 after power up produced the same display as before and as you advised. I selected Diagnostics and again as you indicated it went through an extensive series of test on timing, HD, Optical Drive, Video Card and Memory. It then reported "No Diagnostic Utility Partition Identified" which of course I had deleted. Next I tried the "Boot to Utility Partition" and it just flashed and rebooted into Windows 7. So I have learned much, although its usefulness in debatable . I do think that I might build my next computer from components hoping I will do enough investigation to avoid surprises. My last there computers have all been Dell's and I do recommend to Friend,s but I think I will reject that advise and build - hopefully less surprises and certainly not the buckets full of what I consider useless software that I have to search and delete to achieve what I call a clean system - and I am not clean net - just keep finding pieces.
Thanks again, Ed
John_Bush
23 Posts
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January 18th, 2010 08:00
Glad you got it all sorted ^_-
I understand where you are coming from. You kinda have to look at it like this though, several companies like hp, dell, gateway, and sony sell systems at a really cheap price considering how much the hardware and support actually costs. For example, there are some pretty decent mobile systems that sell for $299. They do this by including bundled software which they recieve compensation for. You can actually opt out of this on some systems but it will cost you a bit more. I figure just buy the cheap one, then freshly install the OS and drivers yourself that away you get the good price and a clean system free of software you dont want.
Bitz106
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38 Posts
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January 18th, 2010 08:00
I have always shied away from the cheap but only because just too lazy to research each of the important components such as processor, HD and video card. I always felt Dell did one of the best jobs of putting packages together all with good choices. As indicated will look harder at the bargains next time and as indicated consider building my self and then comparing that price to having built. Would be nice to have a clean machine to start
In the near term I do have a need to run Office 2007, or the beta of 2010 (actually only the Access module), and my first attempt with simply adding in a separate folder on my old XP did not work - program kept hanging, quiting and wanting to send Gates the message. I have read of problems multiple versions of office - so thus my interest in either dual booting or booting to an external. Have also realize that running an older OS like XP on my new computer with SATA drive will introduce need for other drivers (more work and problems) so since I have a copy of Vista (although much larger) should just learn to install that as a dual boot and thereby keep the new Office versions completely separate.
Ed