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19 Posts

96980

March 9th, 2007 18:00

Vista: 4GB = 3GB???

Does anyone else have this problem?  I just got my new system last night.  I purchased it with 4GB of ram, and they are all installed on the MB, but Vista is telling me that I only have 3GB.  I asked tech support last night and they said it's due to the 32-bit OS, it's only reporting 3GB, but it will utilize the full 4GB.  Does this sound right to anyone?

2 Intern

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12.1K Posts

March 9th, 2007 18:00

This is normal...
 
Windows XP, and Vista 32 bit only addreses between 2 and 3 or so gb of memory.  Vista 64 bit OS addresses all of it.   Discussed on this forum and many others for some time now...Do a Google Search to find out more information if you wish. Loads of links to read
 
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Message Edited by SR45 on 03-09-2007 03:51 PM

19 Posts

March 9th, 2007 19:00

I just did the google search and found a ton of info, but a lot of it is going over my head.  Basically what I want to know is did I waste my money buying 4GB because only 3 of the 4 can be utilized?

March 9th, 2007 20:00

Hi Looks like all the poop I have seen is that we should have bought the 64 bit version. Of course there are very few drivers for 64 bit. I'm having enough problems locating 32 bit drivers. I actually see less memory with Vista than I saw with XP. Good luck

2 Intern

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12.1K Posts

March 9th, 2007 20:00

With 4 gigs you still have dual channel and that will give you some performance over a non dual channel set up.  And you will be ready for the 64 bit OS as well.  Nothing you can do about it, so sit back and enjoy what you have.  Nice system

1 Rookie

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70 Posts

March 9th, 2007 21:00

Not so fast on the 64 bit. I have an Inspiron 9400 bought specifically to run Vista64, and because of a bug in Dell's BIOS, it can't address the additional memory. WinXP, WinXP64, Vista32, Vista64 all show the same amount of RAM, 3335MB available. This is expected for WinXP and Vista32, but WinXP64 and Vista64 can't get to the 700MB of missing memory because the Dell BIOS doesn't expose it. I suggest really asking Dell for what its worth to confirm that the machine you have really does support 64 bit OS and can address >4GB address space.
 
Further, when you call into Dell Support, no one after 2 weeks of calling them (no call backs yet), knows anything about 64 bit WinXP or Vista. So asking (as I did before I purchased) may not yield anything. Maybe if enough Dell users scream, Dell will get its 64 bit act together.
 
Good luck,
Michael

35 Posts

March 9th, 2007 23:00

I'm still confused.    I ordered my E521 with 2Gig of ram with plan add 2 more Gig later.
Now...    should I just get 1 more gig to make it 3G???  or should I add 2 Gig.
 
Does 4th gig even get used???
 
::Confused::

March 10th, 2007 00:00

64dude: I still don't have an answer for you, but a Vista 64-bit install I did on an Optiplex 745 showed a full 4 GB available in Windows.
 
So it is possible, let me see what else I can dig up for you. This is kinda curious why it would work on one system and not the other.....

2 Posts

March 10th, 2007 02:00

Hi I have the same issue with my Dell e521.
 
I found an article in the MSKnowledgebase that addresses this issue but I still have a question
 
ARTICLE:
 
The system memory that is reported in the System Information dialog box in Windows Vista is less than you expect if 4 GB of RAM is installed
Article ID : 929605 Last Review : February 21, 2007 Revision : 1.0
 
If a computer has 4 gigabytes (GB) of random-access memory (RAM) installed, the system memory that is reported in the System Information dialog box in Windows Vista is less than you expect. For example, the System Information dialog box may report 3,120 megabytes (MB) of system memory on a computer that has 4 GB of memory installed (4,096 MB).

Note You can access the System Information dialog box in the following ways: • Click Start, type System in the Search box, and then click System under Programs. • Double-click System in Control Panel. • Click Start, right-click Computer, and then click Properties. • Click Show more details in the Windows Vista Welcome Center window.

This behavior is the expected result of certain hardware and software factors.

Various devices in a typical computer require memory-mapped access. This is known as memory-mapped I/O (MMIO). For the MMIO space to be available to 32-bit operating systems, the MMIO space must reside within the first 4 GB of address space.

For example, if you have a video card that has 256 MB of onboard memory, that memory must be mapped within the first 4 GB of address space. If 4 GB of system memory is already installed, part of that address space must be reserved by the graphics memory mapping. Graphics memory mapping overwrites a part of the system memory. These conditions reduce the total amount of system memory that is available to the operating system.

The reduction in available system memory depends on the devices that are installed in the computer. However, to avoid potential driver compatibility issues, the 32-bit versions of Windows Vista limit the total available memory to 3.12 GB. See the "More information" section for information about potential driver compatibility issues.

If a computer has many installed devices, the available memory may be reduced to 3 GB or less. However, the maximum memory available in 32-bit versions of Windows Vista is typically 3.12 GB.

For Windows Vista to use all 4 GB of memory on a computer that has 4 GB of memory installed, the computer must meet the following requirements: • The chipset must support at least 8 GB of address space. Chipsets that have this capability include the following: • Intel 975X • Intel P965 • Intel 955X on Socket 775 • Chipsets that support AMD processors that use socket F, socket 940, socket 939, or socket AM2. These chipsets include any AMD socket and CPU combination in which the memory controller resides in the CPU. • The CPU must support the x64 instruction set. The AMD64 CPU and the Intel EM64T CPU support this instruction set. • The BIOS must support the memory remapping feature. The memory remapping feature allows for the segment of system memory that was previously overwritten by the Peripheral Component Interconnect (PCI) configuration space to be remapped above the 4 GB address line. This feature must be enabled in the BIOS configuration utility on the computer. View your computer product documentation for instructions that explain how to enable this feature. Many consumer-oriented computers may not support the memory remapping feature. No standard terminology is used in documentation or in BIOS configuration utilities for this feature. Therefore, you may have to read the descriptions of the various BIOS configuration settings that are available to determine whether any of the settings enable the memory remapping feature. • An x64 (64-bit) version of Windows Vista must be used.Contact the computer vendor to determine whether your computer meets these requirements.

Note When the physical RAM that is installed on a computer equals the address space that is supported by the chipset, the total system memory that is available to the operating system is always less than the physical RAM that is installed. For example, consider a computer that has an Intel 975X chipset that supports 8 GB of address space. If you install 8 GB of RAM, the system memory that is available to the operating system will be reduced by the PCI configuration requirements. In this scenario, PCI configuration requirements reduce the memory that is available to the operating system by an amount that is between approximately 200 MB and approximately 1 GB. The reduction depends on the configuration.

MORE INFORMATION

PAE-mode-induced Driver compatibility issues that are related to Data Execution Prevention (DEP) are typically physical address extension (PAE) mode-induced compatibility issues.

Note PAE is required only on computers that have processors that support hardware-enforced DEP.

DEP may cause compatibility issues with any driver that performs code generation or that uses other techniques to generate executable code in real time. Many drivers that experienced these issues have been fixed. Because DEP is always on for drivers that are on 64-bit versions of Windows, these drivers typically experienced compatibility issues. However, there is no guarantee that all drivers have been updated to fix PAE-mode-induced compatibility issues. However, there are few drivers that use these techniques. DEP alone does not typically cause driver compatibility issues.

The primary driver compatibility issues that you may experience occur when you run PAE mode on 32-bit computers. PAE mode enables processors to use more than 4 GB of memory. The primary difference between PAE memory paging schemes and non-PAE memory paging schemes is the additional level of paging that is required in PAE mode. PAE mode requires three levels of paging instead of two levels of paging.

Some drivers might not load if PAE mode is enabled because the device might be unable to perform 64-bit addressing. Or, the drivers might be written with the assumption that PAE mode requires more than 4 GB of memory. Such drivers are written with the expectation that the drivers will always receive 64-bit addresses in PAE mode and that the driver or the device cannot interpret the address.

Other drivers might load in PAE mode but cause system instability by directly modifying system page table entries (PTE). These drivers expect 32-bit page table entries but receive 64-bit PTEs in PAE mode instead.

The most common PAE compatibility issue for drivers involves direct memory access (DMA) transfers and map register allocation. Many devices that support DMA, typically 32-bit adapters, cannot perform 64-bit physical addressing. When these devices run in 32-bit mode, the devices can address all physical address space. In PAE mode, data can be present at a physical address that is larger than 4 GB. To enable devices that have these constraints to function in this scenario, Microsoft Windows 2000 Server and later versions of Windows provide double-buffering for the DMA transaction. Windows 2000 Server and later versions of Windows do this by providing a 32-bit address that is indicated by a map register. The device can perform the DMA transaction to the 32-bit address. The kernel copies the memory to the 64-bit address that is provided to the driver. When the computer runs with PAE mode disabled, drivers for 32-bit devices do not require that system memory be allocated to their map registers. This means that double-buffering is not required because all devices and all drivers are contained within the 32-bit address space. Tests of drivers for 32-bit devices on 64-bit processor–based computers have demonstrated that DMA-capable drivers that are client tested typically expect unlimited map registers.

The third-party products that this article discusses are manufactured by companies that are independent of Microsoft. Microsoft makes no warranty, implied or otherwise, about the performance or reliability of these products.
 
Now for My Twist on this issue:
 
Does the Dell Bios Support the memory remapping feature discussed in this article and if so is it automatic becouse I cannot find a setting remotely related to it in the BIOS?  If it is automatic then thats fine but if not then installing a 64 Bit Windows Vista OS will make no difference and may break the drivers that are currently working fine.
 
Any Ideas?
 

2 Intern

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12.1K Posts

March 10th, 2007 08:00

64Dude... On a 64 bit desktop at least yes you can have the entire amount of 4 gigs addressed but you have to remove two sticks of ram first, than you have to boot back up, than you have to download Micorsofts update to fix the memory issues, than you have to re-install the two sticks of memory again.  Now it will show all 4 gigs on a 64 bit OS. 
 
Another member wrote about the proceedures just a day or so ago.  I'll try and find it.

2 Intern

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12.1K Posts

March 10th, 2007 09:00

How to show all 4 gigs of memory on a Vista OS 64 bit system linked below
 

March 11th, 2007 00:00

Wow, awesome work guys! This thread gets a gold star.

2 Intern

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3.3K Posts

March 11th, 2007 01:00

Try this:

Type MSCONFIG in the "start search"

Click the BOOT tab

Click the ADVANCED button

Uncheck the box that says "Maximun Memory" ( mine was checked with 2048 ) no need to set it just uncheck it.

Reboot and you should now see all your memory.

1 Rookie

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70 Posts

March 11th, 2007 04:00

Unfortunately, for my Inspiron 9400 (aka 1705 and M90), SR45's procedure doesn't work,
http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=xps_desk_genhdw&thread.id=44611. The Msft patch doesn't apply to my system (according the the patch), and my BIOS doesn't show a remap feature. Dgwrnch3's MSConfig procedure unfortunately also doesn't work as the Maximum Memory defaults to unchecked, and doesn't accept manually entering 4096MB.  The Msft article posted earlier in the thread by kenhi007 also indicated the MB has to support 8GB, which I know the Dell laptops use of the Intel 945 chipset is not spec'd to do so. I really appreciate the help, but I've got a sinking feeling I'm going to lose this one and conclude no Dell laptop can use a full 4GB of installed RAM with any 64 bit OS. Dell Support is 64 bit clueless. Most Dell support Technicions don't know Vista64 exists. I'll keep after them. Any other suggestions?
 
PS. The reason I could really use the RAM is for VirtualPC2007 running demos and development.
 
Thanks

4 Posts

March 30th, 2007 12:00

I have an XPS M1710 that utilizes the 945 chipset and it to has the same problem. Only able to use 3.25GB of RAM no matter what O/S is used. I have been on at DELL support for about 6 weeks trying to drum into there thick skulls that it's a BIOS issue and that a memory remapping feature is needed before all 4GB can be accessed. I have also threatened to report them to Trading Standards in the UK and the US for mis-representing a product as they do not mention that you cannot use all of the 4GB of very expensive memory when you order the machine. It is only when you receive it do you find out you cannot use it.
 
I have tried contacting Intel as well to find out if it is a limiting factor of the 945 chipset but they have been as helpfull as DELL !!!!!!!
 
It looks like we are stuck with out 3.25GB, but I know I will never buy a DELL again and I certainly will not be recommending them to any of my customers. There support is the worst in the business.
 
My 2 pence worth.
 
WhiteGSD
 

March 30th, 2007 23:00

Well, seeing that it's a limitation of the 32-bit architecture, I don't see where to apply blame?
 
Perhaps math. Yes, let's all blame those darn mathematicians for not allowing us to use 4GB with a 32-bit OS.

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