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April 17th, 2013 13:00

Dimension E310 RAID Level1

Hello.   I am hoping there is someone on the forum who is able and willing to answer my several questions.

Where is the software that manages the RAID stored?

Is it in the BIOS?

Is it  on a separate ROM chip?

Is it on the hard disk?

If it's on the hard disk:

- is it in the MBR?

- is it in a partition boot sector?

- is it in the filesystem somewhere?

- If it's in the filesystem, does Windows have to "install" it?

Why are there two different places (and software/firmware from two different companies) for setting up RAID for this machine?

    1) CMOS/BIOS (Phoenix) has a setting for RAID

    2) CTRL-I takes me to an Intel RAID setup screen

I apologize for all the questions, but I have been unable to locate *any* documentation for this machine which answers these questions.  If I could get a better handle how this all interacts I think it would go a long way toward helping me know what absolutely needs to be backed up, and keeping me from doing something foolish and irreversible as I try to do a CTRL-F11 restore on this machine.

Thank you.

6.4K Posts

April 18th, 2013 14:00

I believe I answered the question at 12) in the post I made earlier.  You have the RAID drivers in your Windows installation; when you switch to Auto, the controller goes to IDE compatible mode, and you don't have the driver for that mode.  No driver, no hard drive.  The rest of your post I understood.

Good luck to you!

6.4K Posts

April 19th, 2013 16:00

To be honest, I haven't made a study of how members of a RAID are configured.  I just use them, and how they work inside their configurations hasn't been of interest.  I believe you will find, however, that a hard drive that is a member of a RAID does not have a Master Boot Record.  The sectors that would normally be occupied with the MBR data has instead the RAID signature that allows the RAID ROM to recognize how the RAID has been set up.  After you have created a RAID, you don't format the individual hard drives; you format the virtual disk that is made up by the individual drives.  That virtual disk drive is where the MBR would reside.  If I make a bootable RAID, I essentially select the RAID ROM as my boot device.  The firmware in the ROM reads the signature on the drives, figures out how the virtual disk drive is configured, and forwards the data from the virtual drive to the firmware in the SATA controller that in turn forwards it to the driver software in the operating system.

So far as the operating system is concerned, the virtual drive on the RAID looks just like a standard hard disk drive.  If I examine the virtual drive in Disk Management, it shows up just as a regular hard disk drive.  You cannot tell the difference at the OS level.  RAID 1 has the advantage that if you delete the array or reset the drives to non-RAID, the RAID signature gets overwritten by the MBR that was placed on the virtual drive.  That is what allows you to boot from a hard drive that was part of a RAID 1 after the array itself was deleted.

6 Professor

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8.8K Posts

April 17th, 2013 13:00

You might consider imaging the drive prior to reinstalling.

The 915GV chipset supports Matrix RAID, but unless you have two hard drives, it is not in use.

6 Professor

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8.8K Posts

April 17th, 2013 21:00

The RAID is an Intel product and it is in the firmware. If you have data you want to keep, imaging the drive to a backup via the Linux 'dd' utility is easy insurance.

RAID 1 is mirroring (two disks with identical data) and you'd think either one could boot. If neither drive is damaged, you should be able to use either one as the primary and the other for data.

I have an E310 (actually it is a Dimension 3100 -- identical model), but I've never tinkered with the RAID. Instead, I wanted to determine if it would support 4gb memory (it does), an SSD (it does) and Windows 8 64-bit (it does), and whether the Startech adapter will allow the use of a PCIe x16 video card. (It does.) I was going to try an E4700 CPU, but I think that's an exercise in futility.

40 Posts

April 17th, 2013 21:00

This Dimension E310 came from the factory with 2 identical 75GB disks configured as RAID Level1.

I have already made a complete image backup.  But with this RAID thing, it's possible to screw things up so that the computer won't even recognize the disks, so the image backup software won't be able to restore the image.   That happened to me already, and I had to boot a Linux live CD and use dd to restore the MBR I'd previously saved with Dan Goodell's DSRfix.  It's just pure serendipity that I had the DSRfix MBR backup.   I don't want to depend on serendipity.  Are there drivers or other software or hidden sectors that I should save as files?  The image backup software I have doesn't support extracting files from the image.

There's a setting for the RAID in the BIOS: you can either turn RAID "ON" or set it to "Auto".   There's no "OFF" option.  What's up with that?  Then there's an "Intel Option ROM" (accessed via CTRL-I).  What does each of these *do* ?   I can't find an explanation anywhere.

After reading several threads here, I'm thinking it might be better just to junk the RAID and run the second disk as a data disk to be used for backups.  But how do I turn the RAID *OFF* ??  There is no "off" setting in the system BIOS (only choices are "on" and "auto").  

As things stand, the system is bootable from sda (disk 80h) and the setting in BIOS is RAID "ON".  This works, even though the MBR on sdb (disk 81h) is trashed (according to DSRfix).   If I change the setting in BIOS to RAID "auto", the system won't boot.  I can't make any sense of this.  That's why I'd like to understand how this works, so I can make somewhat informed guesses at what to try next.

40 Posts

April 17th, 2013 22:00

When you day "the" firmware, what firmware are you talking about?  From the name "Intel Option ROM" it sounds like it's firmware in a separate chip, or perhaps in the disk driver chipset.

If that is so, why are there separate RAID setup options in both the Phoenix BIOS and the Intel chipset. and how do they interact?

I'm not worried about data.  I'm worried about doing something that will render the system unbootable.  I do not want to have to  reinstall the OS from scratch, and go searching for all the drivers.   I do not want to destroy the ability to restore from the factory image in the DellRestore partition.  

I understand what RAID1is.  I do not understand how it is implemented on this machine.  Without this understanding, it is difficult to lay out a plan of attack with any assurance.

I know that I should be able to boot from either disk.  The question is, what is the correct approach for achieving this, without destroying the ability to use the factory restore image.  How do I disable RAID so that the disks are no longer interacting:  as mentioned in my previous post, when I simply change the BIOS setting from "RAID ON" to "RAID Auto", the system becomes unbootable.  What I am seeking is an understanding of why that is.

6.4K Posts

April 18th, 2013 01:00

Please excuse the intrusion, I believe the following may help.

Enabling the RAID option in the SATA controller on a Dimension 3100 turns on the capability of creating and using a RAID volume.  It also enables the AHCI controller so that the computer can make use of the enhancements provided by that interface.  It does not, however, automatically create a RAID.  In order to create the RAID, two acceptable hard disk drives must be attached to the SATA controller, and the CTRL i key combination used to bring up the RAID configuration page.

A RAID 1 would be created on a Dimension 3100 by starting the computer, pressing CTRL i during the RAID status screen to bring up the RAID configuration page, and selecting the type of RAID and the disk drives that will be used for the RAID.  On the Dells I have used, if you have only two eligible hard drives attached, they will be automatically selected.  When you create the RAID, the programming in the RAID ROM creates a virtual drive that includes the two selected disk drives.  Each disk drive will have parametric data written to them that allows the RAID ROM to recognize them as belonging to a RAID.  When you format a RAID volume, it is the virtual drive that is affected, not necessarily the physical hard drives.  If you attach one of these drives to a controller that does not understand RAID you cannot generally read or boot the drive because the sectors that are supposed to hold the Master Boot Record for the drive are instead filled with the RAID parameters.

Returning the drives to a basic status requires that you start the computer, go to the RAID configuration page as you did to set up the RAID, and choose the option to delete the RAID or reset the hard drives to non-RAID.  This removes the RAID parametric data, and if the array you have deleted was a RAID 1, the two disks should be returned to basic hard drives.  If the RAID was a bootable array, each hard drive should also be bootable.

With regard to the Dell PC Restore partition, it should not be damaged by returning the drives to non-RAID status.  Unfortunately, there is no guarantee when dealing with computers.  Though most people I've helped have had no trouble using the individual drives that have been reset to non-RAID, I remember one who found it necessary to use his Windows disk to repair the Windows start-up.  PC Restore for Windows XP uses a special Master Boot Record to enable the PC Restore feature.  Anything that alters the MBR or the partition structure of the hard drive can disable PC Restore.  Most folks don't see this as a problem as they seldom wish to return to factory delivered condition.  As this seems to be a concern for you, you might want to consider using a program that can make a back-up image of your system before you begin to modify it.  Programs I have used include Symantec Ghost and Acronis True Image.  Both of these require you to purchase them, but a vendor called EASUS makes a free version, I believe.

9 Legend

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47K Posts

April 18th, 2013 07:00

Enabling AHCI without F6 Drivers = "Stop error code 0x0000007B (INACCESSABLE_BOOT_DEVICE)"

support.microsoft.com/.../316401

support.microsoft.com/.../324103

Error message when you start a Windows 7

or Windows Vista-based computer

after you change the SATA mode of the boot drive

:"Stop error code 0x0000007B (INACCESSABLE_BOOT_DEVICE)"

40 Posts

April 18th, 2013 07:00

> Please excuse the intrusion, I believe the following may help.

It's not an intrusion.  Your comments are most welcome.

Here's the situation I have right now:

1) The OS on Drive 0 (SATA 0) has been restored to the factory image using the CTRL-F11 process.

2) Drive 1 (SATA 1) is physically connected, but its MBR has been scrambled, so it's presently unusable.  I have every reason to believe I can bring it back to life by re-writing the MBR I saved earlier with DSRfix.  If not, I can boot a Linux live CD and use dd to copy Drive 0 to Drive 1.

3) In the Phoenix BIOS, RAID is set to "ON".  The only other option is "Auto".

4) The drives are not in an array (CTRL-I was used to separate them, the array is not listed in the BIOS setup, and the boot menu lists the individual drives, not an array)

5) The machine is presently bootable (from Drive 0).

Now, if I go into the system BIOS setup and change "RAID ON" to "RAID Auto", the machine is no longer bootable.

Can someone please explain that to me?

9 Legend

 • 

47K Posts

April 18th, 2013 08:00

"My understanding is that the Dimension E310 machine I am working on does not require any "F6 Drivers".  All the code required is firmware in the Intel Option ROM chipset and the Phoenix system BIOS.  It that not correct? "  It is extremely unlikely that any software is going to fix a physically bad hard drive.

AHCI VS ATA has to do with F6 Windows Drivers.  You are not correct.

File names
f6flpy-x64_11.2.0.1006.zip
f6flpy-x86_11.2.0.1006.zip






AHCI: Intel® Rapid Storage Technology Driver for Intel Desktop Boards

Installs the Intel® Rapid Storage Technology (AHCI) driver version 11.2.0.1006 for Intel® Desktop Boards.

OS: Windows XP Home Edition*, Windows XP Media Cent .. More> Windows XP Home Edition*, Windows XP Media Center Edition*, Windows XP Professional x64 Edition*, Windows XP Professional*

6/11/2012

11.​2.​0.​1006

Latest

Drivers

6/11/2012

11.​2.​0.​1006

Latest

Drivers

6/11/2012

11.​2.​0.​1006

Previously released

Drivers

Intel® Rapid Storage Technology

Installs the Intel® Rapid Storage Technology (RAID) driver version 11.2.0.1006.

OS: Windows Server 2003 *, Windows Vista *, Windows .. More> Windows Server 2003 *, Windows Vista *, Windows XP *

6/7/2012

11.​2.​0.​1006

Previously released

Drivers

Note Mass storage controller drivers can be loaded only from floppy disks by using the F6 key.

The F6 key cannot be used to load drivers that are stored on USB flash drives, on USB hard disks, or on other external storage devices.

Limited OEM driver support is available with F6 during Windows XP ...


When you are installing Microsoft Windows XP or Microsoft Windows Server 2003 on a new computer or on a computer that has the latest SCSI or IDE controller technology, you may have to use an OEM device driver to support, for example, a new mass storage controller, to continue with the installation. The symptoms that you have to install an OEM device driver include the following:

  • The computer may keep restarting and never start the GUI installation after the text mode Setup is finished.
  • The Setup program may stop, and you may receive an error message if the Setup program does not correctly detect the controller.
  • If you are booting from the installation floppy disks or CD-ROM disc, you receive the following error message:
    Setup did not find any hard disk drives installed in your system
    If you are upgrading by using the Winnt32.exe file, or if you are performing a new installation by using the Winnt.exe file, you receive the following Stop error:
    Stop 0x0000007B Inaccessible_boot_device

Error message occurs after you change the SATA mode of the boot ...

After you use the BIOS setup of a Windows computer to change the Serial Advanced Technology Attachment (SATA) mode of the boot drive to use either the Advanced Host Controller Interface (AHCI) specification or redundant array of independent disks (RAID) features, you receive the following error message when the computer is restarted: 

STOP 0x0000007B INACCESSABLE_BOOT_DEVICE

40 Posts

April 18th, 2013 08:00

My understanding is that the Dimension E310 machine I am working on does not require any "F6 Drivers".  All the code required is firmware in the Intel Option ROM chipset and the Phoenix system BIOS.  It that not correct?   The OS is the original factory-installed XP Media Center Edition 2005.

Dell Dimension E310 DV051 Series

Phoenix ROM BIOS PLUS Version 1.10 A04 04/04/06

Intel Matrix Storage Manager option ROM v5.0.2.1005 ICH6R

SATA-0 WDC WD800JD-75MS

SATA-2 WDC WD800JD-75MS

Pentium 4:  2.80GHz CPU; 800MHz Bus; 1MB L2 Cache; Hyperthreading Capable Yes; EM64T 64-bit;

Memory: 2x512MB DIMM DDR2 SDRAM 533MHz; Dual Interleaved; ECC no; Unbuffered;

Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005

6.4K Posts

April 18th, 2013 10:00

ether333;

You have cleared up something for me that I've been wondering about.  If your RAID was still active, changing the SATA controller to Autodetect should have still allowed the machine to boot.  That is what RAID Autodetect/ATA is all about; if you have no RAID, the controller gets set to a Parallel ATA/IDE compatible state that allows the old IDE drivers to work with your SATA drives.  Windows XP was produced a long time before SATA became widespread in PCs, so most copies of the Windows XP installation disk only have the drivers for IDE.  That is what Speedstep is writing about.  Unless you have one of the Win XP install disks that Dell released for SATA machines (they had the SATA drivers slipstreamed into them), or a copy of Windows XP with Service Pack 3 already included on the disk, Windows XP Setup can't see a SATA controller that has been AHCI enabled, which includes the RAID On setting.

Since your RAID has already been disabled, the only feature that the RAID setting enables for you is the AHCI interface.  Since your computer was set up using RAID On, that is the driver that your Windows XP installation is using.  When you switch to Autodetect, AHCI is disabled, and you need the old IDE driver, which has not been installed on your system, in order for Windows XP to see the hard drives.  Consequently, when you make the switch, you have no hard drives.

At this point, you can do pretty much whatever you wish with the second drive.  You can use the Intel Matrix Storage application to migrate back to RAID 1, you can repair it for use as a spare system drive, or you can delete all existing partitions, reformat, and simply use the second drive for data.

6.4K Posts

April 18th, 2013 11:00

rdunnill;

Not necessarily.  There are complications as he is using Media Center, and we don't know if his installation disk (assuming he has one) has the SATA drivers.

He states that he has managed to repair one disk, and is using that to boot.  If I were in his place, I would save the working drive as a back-up, and try to repair the second drive for use (assumes he doesn't want to deal with RAID anymore).  Since his SATA controller is set to RAID On, and the computer is working with at least one drive, it is safe to assume that the SATA drivers are already contained in his existing installation.  I nearly always follow the philosophy of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".  I frequently regret ignoring that maxim.

6 Professor

 • 

8.8K Posts

April 18th, 2013 11:00

If this is the case, an XP Repair Install should make the primary drive bootable.

40 Posts

April 18th, 2013 13:00

Clearing up some misunderstandings:

1) both hard disks are physically fine. Both passed the testing performed by the "Hard Disk Diagnostics" boot menu option.  I understand that you can't fix a physically inoperative disk by installing software on it.

2) the two hard disks are the exact same model

3) I have multiple image backups of the entire disk, and separate image backups of the individual partitions.

4) I have a backup of the MBR using Dan Goodell's MBRSAVER program

5) I do not have any Windows installation media for this machine.  That is why I do not want to destroy the ability to restore using the factory image in the DellRestore partition.  Even if I had Windows installation media, I don't want to have to hunt for all the machine-specific drivers and figure what order in which to install them.  Been there, done that on other machines, don't want a repeat experience.

6) I don't think I need to download or install any "F6 drivers".  They should already be in the factory image, since the machine was shipped from the factory with these very disks in RAID Level 1.

7) I have filesystem-level backups of the data

8) The disks are presently NOT in a RAID volume.  They show up as individual disks in the boot menu (F12), in the BIOS setup (F2), and in the Intel Option ROM screen (CTRL-I).

9) Disk0 has been restored to factory condition using CTRL-F11 to access the factory image in the DellRestore partition.  Disk1 is presently unreadable, not because of any physical reason, but because the MBR got trashed earlier and I have not yet restored it.  

10) Both disks are physically connected to their respective power and data lines, in the original factory configuration.

11) The orginal factory setting in system BIOS for RAID was "RAID Auto".

12) I get the BSOD with the "STOP 7B" code when I set the RAID to "AUTO" in the BIOS. When I set the RAID to "ON" in the BIOS, the machine boots and operates normally.  I would like to understand why this is.

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