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maaximuus

30 Posts

223179

August 29th, 2006 07:00

Inspiron 9400/ATI x1400/video flicker on external dual lcds

I researched the forum and found that flickering on the external outputs may be related to font size and cables...
I've checked those items they are correct. My issue has been narrowed down to having both the DVI and VGA running together in a dual monitor setup... as long as only one is running, everything is nice and dandy... put both running and there's a quick (less than a second) flicker and it's something that could happen one second and not happen again for 30-90 seconds... maybe more...
 
I've read that running both external outs puts load on the card, but I couldn't imagine that  it's something that can't be resolved...
 
I am running the latest drivers from dell 7/15/2006 for ATI... what are the chances that the card is defective?
 
any other suggestions?
 
if the opinion is that the card is defective, what is the best way to warranty it? meaning... I don't want to be on the phone with a dell tech support guy for 3 hours before they finally realize, "Ok... we'll look into it"
 
inspiron 9400
core duo @1.83
2gb ram
x1400

notebookvet

54 Posts

September 16th, 2006 08:00

I won one battle for sure, for now!
 
I complained on this Inspiron 9400 with ATI X1400 when I came back after at Ctrl-Alt-Del and password entry I'd get that three (2 or 5, not sure) seconds later screen turning black for a redraw that altogether takes forever (over a second?).  Gets obnoxious if you're locking per company policy and try to get back in quickly to answer questions and you're delayed, visually jerked, etc.  Our other Inspirons (with same apps running) don't have the problem.
 
The solution: Control Panel -> Administrative Tools -> Services.  Take that Ati HotKey Poller service and switch it from Automatic to Manual startup.  Restart.  No more black screens and redraws seconds after logging in with Ctrl-Alt-Del.  Happier.
 
Now regarding the whole screen flicker at undetermined internvals, you may remember I thought I had it fixed.  Went fine for days, not sure whether a week or two.  Then, in the "cold" client office of all places, it was back worse than before.  Had internal fans running per I8KfanGUI, had Catalyst settings kept the same.  Maybe I worked more?
 
So I followed maaximuus and Glen and installed the Omega driver.  Works so far.  Did notice it is old style control panel.
 
Down side:  Lack of possibility to do separate color adjustment per screen, e.g. Gamma to match external LCD with built-in.  The Catalyst Control interface by ATI by now had that built-in.
 
Is it the latency setting that makes it work?
 
Omega driver says it sets PCI latency to what BIOS suggests, which may be 32.
 
To late at night to write my thoughts on PCI latency.  Let's say some of the tools displayed stuff that didn't make sense.

Glen T

61 Posts

September 16th, 2006 14:00

Disappointment...
 
Flicker has returned with Omega drivers. I have not played with the default Omega settings.
 
I am now becoming intrigued with the possibility of a thermal problem ... but maybe this is the INVERSE of what you thought. What if the chipset is sensitive to COLD rather than heat???
 
Here's my evidence: when I installed fan GUI my problem became much worse with the extra cooling. When I installed Omega drivers, my house was at room temperature. Right now, my house is about 65 degrees (cooler weather) and I haven't got the furnace set up to go yet. NOW I have flicker again.
 
You said more flicker in cooler client office. Maybe this is the pattern that we have missed??

maaximuus

30 Posts

September 17th, 2006 05:00

might as well... place a post...

yes... unfortunately I got flicker with Omega drivers too... but it happened several days after the install...

so I decided to go ballistic...

I installed vista.

Mind you... If you have the 350 Internal Bluetooth the toshiba stack is not ready yet... I still had two other microsoft dongles, so no biggie for me. Besides that, upon initial install, the only things that needed drivers was the ricoh mem card on my end...

The install was flawless for me.

Now to the dual video setups... Which is one of the reasons I bought the 9400(mainly as a desktop replacement)

microsoft video driver does support the x1400, but it's kinda quirkie...

Elaborating... I couldn't connect both DVI and VGA upon booting... I would have to wait till the windows startup was running and then connect it... just a tad dumb... tested that for two days and no flicker...

this is without running the fan utility or anything extra...

I knew that ATI had drivers out for vista... so after testing the MS driver, I went to ati to see if the Radeon Mobility for x1400 was supported... and to my relief... it was... so that's what I am running right now...

AND I can connect the DVI and VGA cables before/during boot at the same time...

MSTSC runs true full screen mode now on Vista (thought was kinda cool since I've always wanted to hack the 1600x1200 default for higher res)

Three days so far... Happy camper...

that's why I wanted to wait a bit more to post, just to see what my results were with Vista...

Overall... it seems that when we do swap drivers... things get better... its why I still think that it's a driver issue especially now that I am not running the i8kfan utility...

PS sorry glenT... I would have posted about the flicker on Omega drivers, but got swamped with a project and was basically under lock down

Message Edited by maaximuus on 09-17-2006 01:59 AM

Glen T

61 Posts

September 17th, 2006 13:00

"PS sorry glenT... I would have posted about the flicker on Omega drivers, but got swamped with a project and was basically under lock down"
 
No worries. The Omega drivers do seem to be an improvement over stock drivers. At least the flicker speed seems to be faster, which makes it a little less noticeable.
 
However, I won't be switching to Vista any time soon, so I can't follow you there.
 
Does anyone have an open incident number on this with Dell?

Glen T

61 Posts

September 17th, 2006 18:00

Breaking news:
 
I went to the ATI.com site to leave a message for them via their notebook feedback link. I added a link to this forum topic with an appeal for assistance.
 
What troubled me was that their response form includes a list of OEM notebook manufactures that you must choose from: and Dell is no longer on the list!
 
Further, when I did a quick survey of Dell Inspiron notebooks, almost none of them (now including the 9400) have ATI chipsets as an option. Dell appears to be switching over to NVIDIA chipsets or Intel onboard chipsets.
 
Looks like we now own orphaned ATI products. Time to start a letter writing campaign?

Glen T

61 Posts

September 17th, 2006 19:00

You're probably checking the US Dell site. I checked Dell.ca today (where I bought my 9400) and the ATI chipset appears to be no longer available -- NVIDIA is offered instead.
 
I'm pretty sure that Dell used to be on the ATI list. Can't figure out why the would not be. I've been buying Dell notebooks going back 8 or 9 years, and they've all been ATI chipsets.
 
I just get a bad feeling that we are going to have live with this problem for the lifetime of the machine, which may not be too long if I can't get this problem fixed.
 
Edit: here's what it says on the Tech Specs page for the 9400 in Canada:
 
 
Standard:
17 inch Wide Screen WXGA+
Integrated Intel®  Graphics Media Accelerator 950
 
 
Optional:
17 inch UltraSharpTM  Wide Screen UXGA with TrueLifeTM 
256MB NVIDIA®  GeForceTM  Go7900 GS 
 
There is one model left with X1400 chipset. Probably old MB stock.

Message Edited by Glen T on 09-17-200603:58 PM

Message Edited by Glen T on 09-17-2006 03:59 PM

maaximuus

30 Posts

September 17th, 2006 19:00

ATI never supported mobility chipsets... that as of a year ago... and yes I was impressed that they are adding notebook vendors now and I think is more of them supporting Dell than them kicking them out of support.

I just checked Dell and they are still offering the x1400 on 9400s

///

on the flicker being quicker on new drivers...

it's one of the reasons why I think it's driver related and could hopefully be fixed. I guess the keyword is hopefully.

Message Edited by maaximuus on 09-17-2006 03:07 PM

notebookvet

54 Posts

September 18th, 2006 13:00

I have a case number with Dell.  Why did you ask?

notebookvet

54 Posts

September 18th, 2006 13:00

It looks like there is three of us, maaximuus, Glen T and notebookvet who have a real problem.  I think the question is:  Did Dell sell 30000 of these X1400 in notebooks, of which only 300 use external monitors, or which we are the only 3 who care to try analyzing the problem?
 
But what about the remaining units?  Are they all working well?  Hence, if we'd insist on a parts replacement would we get a working machine each of us?  Or would we waste our time and still have the same problem?
 
Part of the problem is that Dell support suggest a strategy like:  "Reinstall your operating system, if the problem still exists we'll talk again."  By the time I have reinstalled my operating system I'm out of business.  I've spent plenty of time on this already.
 
And what are they going to swap?  I paid for a brand new machine.  Am I going to get what?  A refurbished board someone had returned after flood damage?  If they'd clearly say what parts they'd swap I could get used to it.  But they don't even say whether the GPU is socketed or soldered.
 
Problem is that the regular support employees at Dell don't know the statistics, or don't share them, etc, so we can't make an educated decision.  I understand, it is a business secret.  Has to be.  But it is my time, my livelihood.
 
Is it fixable by replacement?  Or should they swap it for another card?  I'd consider paying for one if it can be done and I have a reliable machine.

Glen T

61 Posts

September 18th, 2006 13:00

"I have a case number with Dell.  Why did you ask?"
 
Just wondering what their position is on this problem. I've also started a case number via e-mail support. I think that Maaximuus should do the same. Give them a link to this forum. Maybe we can get some action on this: for example an RMA replacement to the new NVIDIA chipset.

Glen T

61 Posts

September 19th, 2006 00:00

Well, if there are three of us who have found our way to this forum, then then there are probably hundreds who are either cuing up for telephone support or who have already given up or who don't recognize the symptoms as a problem because it is intermittent.
 
Since my HD died at 7 weeks, I HAVE reinstalled the operating system (not by choice) so I have that covered. Note that they offered me a refurbished HD (if you can believe it). I refused it and they sent a new one. The HD incident alone cost me over $1000 in out-of-pocket expenses for data recovery and lost income. But a refurbished video chip wouldn't bother me so much, as long as it doesn't cost me a lot of downtime.
 
Be nice to know if the chip is socketed. I'm with you: I'd buy the thing if necessary.
 
The squeeky wheel gets the oil. If we complain long enough and loud enough, then maybe we will get some action. I said at the outset that this is the kind of problem that I don't want to phone in. But there are other avenues, such as the new Dell Exec Blog. Too bad Dell doesn't actually moderate these forums anymore.
 
 
 

Glen T

61 Posts

September 19th, 2006 13:00

To you, from failing hands, we throw the torch. Received the following from Dell e-mail support this morning:

Based upon the service tag entered, it appears that your Dell system was purchased in Canada. Unfortunately, you have reached Dell's Technical Support for the United States. Dell Canada Support is not currently available via e-mail.

Perhaps one of you is willing to take up the challenge and forward a link to this topic to US Dell Support via e-mail in the hope that someone at Dell will read these postings and avoid hours of pointless phone interrogation?

notebookvet

54 Posts

September 20th, 2006 01:00

More than 30 hours (happen to be 2 workdays), no reply from Dell.  I hope that means they really are investigating.
 
Interesting, but not sure whether the poster(s) know(s) for sure:
 

maaximuus

30 Posts

September 20th, 2006 02:00

I have a question for you guys...

Let me ask procedure of the conns to the externals...
sounds weird, but I am trying all options...

Are you guys trying to run the DVI out as the primary external and the VGA as secondary?

I do DVI as "1".

When I extend the desktop to the VGA, the VGA takes over as 1 and I set it back as DVI 1 and VGA 2... right now testing with VGA 1 and DVI 2... this is just to weird...
I haven't had any flicker in several days... so just still trying to test as many combinations as possible...

Glen T

61 Posts

September 20th, 2006 02:00

In my case, DVI = 1 and internal LCD = 2, both at home and at client's office. Desktop shows on DVI and is extended onto LCD internal (assumed to be VGA).

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