I 've been plagued intermitently with the heat problem on my I 8500. What happens is it goes along for months and then it starts heating up. But because I'm such and idiot I alwas forget what I learned the last time to cure it. I've got the heat program 18kfanGui which works very good. And here is what I found out. If you go to the fan program and set it to run manually you can tell itf it's running by the sound level, set it off no sound, set it high- loud/fast run. Well when it runs on high the machine turns to and ice box, bot it just wasn't running.swith to high no fan? So as in the last two ttimes I went through this I drop drop drop the computer on the desk and wala running fan, just hard enough to make me feel like I'm on the edge of doing damage. No I don't want to kill it but that's what worked.
So I would say from my experience that this is a starting point. As a mechanic of sorts I would guess that there is a ?????? connection to the fan or from the ???? that tells the fan when to run. Yes I don't know what it looks like but that"s what would make sense. Or perhaps its a weak diode or pramistan or ????? cause I'm not a computer mech but If someone could help with the next level it would be helpful.
In my opinion, all of these run too hot. Dell would like us to fall into the belief that these are no longer LAPTOPS, but, in fact, NOTEBOOKS. Well, I really don't care what they want to call it. 90% of the time mine ends up on my LAP!!! If I am using a *notebook* it, too ends up on my LAP!!!
I know there have been hot laptops since Pentium 1 or even earlier (I recall some folks complaining of hot 486 laptops).....BUT..........that still does not excuse the fact that these things are just running too hot these days. I also have an IBM Thinkpad A22M and I can tell you that the thing gets no hotter than *warm*. Thus, it's a crying shame to see that we are to simply go along with all of this *hot* being OK business.
I can only hope that at some point in the future, someone at Dell makes the decision that it's no longer "OK" for these things to run so hot. I feel that it's just not right, and am for one, ashamed to see so many people rewarding mfgrs for selling hot laptops.
FWIW, there are also much cooler laptops out there. They are typically a few bucks more as Dell seems to be selling on price these days more than quality, but it just might be well worth the extra money spent to have a LAPTOP and not a clothes-iron furnace-type of a NOTEBOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :robotmad:
it is always the typical complaint of notebook or laptops if you want to call it that way.... But you would have to give this piece of machine some credit... The platform's agile and fast, the performance is higher than the previous generations, and basically, the technology is still pretty much the same except for some modifications here and there...
Most of Dell notebooks have the RAMs located underneath the chassis for easy access as many customers requested but this has resulted in extra heat "transmitted" to the bottom.
Most computers are built on the edge of thermal design, so have some gratitude for the great job the engineers did. I know it is kinda hot but considering you have so much in a small space, it is quite reasonable. I do like other notebooks that are warm to touch but I would rather prefer the heat being dissapated rather than "contained" inside. If itz too hot for you, get a notebook cooler... ;) Other designs from other manufacturers claim to maximise heat dissapation for lower temperature to the touch but this is reflected in the higher prices... eg, Asustek, etc . Furthermore, they are equipped with inferior hardware compared to Dell. Dell still has one of the best hardware (other than Alienware, etc) for power users and gamers alike... and not to mention, practical and cost-wise too!
And believe me, I'm trying hard to make this a better laptop. I'm working with a company on ordering from overseas the coolest version of RAM yet made in a SODIMM format. I've already tried Elixir's best attempt and it really isn't much different except for overall size. I commend them on that much as in such small bay areas such as the 600m and I'm sure other Centrinos that allows for more cubic air space, but it's still only a small improvement.
Another one of the items onboard that I'm quite surprised with is the Mini-PCI card. My 600m happens to be using the Intel 2200 b/g card, but this puppy gets as hot as the ram does. I would think they could control this better, but perhaps (again) I'm expecting too much. To my surprise, the original beef about the 600m during almost all of 2003 was the Hard Drive temps, but I find my Toshiba 40GB 5,400rpm drive to run tolerably. Its heat-up point is around 43*C and my palm rest gets warm but not hot. Others report 50's & 60's which is just outrageous, imho so I can't complain.
I still think I could ventilate this machine better as I've had to find complex ways to cool combustion engines before in cramped quarters and I find this no different. (Air-cooled German engines, no less so I don't buy the "radiator" bit). But, I'll just have to improve as I go & report back here so hopefully other folks can gain as well. If I patent the pcmcia fan, I'll be sure to post my website here. :smileywink:
Sorry guys if this looks like I'm trying to divert this thread to somewhere else, but the reasons I state before is the ones I feel could explain why the notebooks are so hot. :)
I do agree they're a little too hot to use comfortably on the lap, and it sounds a bit funny "defending" the problem (actually, I'm not... just giving the engineers some credit :) ).... I'm also as frustrated that the lappys are emitting a little too much heat than I like it to.
However, I surved other laptops (with similar specs to the one from Dell I currently have), in shops (where they leave them turned on for the whole day), they also run equally as hot. So I don't think this is an isolated problem with just Dells. IBM's good but make no mistake, IBM's targeting a slightly more different group than Dell. However, I do agree with your comment that Dell can attempt to make laptops cooler but cannot see how they can given that they only assemble computers and when the way of reducing heat is typically by designing new electronics [e.g. new processors that run cooler, etc, etc] (which they do not do).
[Look at Clarence Schmalenberg's comment - he's a Dell techie]
One way... wait for newer technologies to come out. ;)... they're sure to run cooler and for more performance. Blame Intel if your lappy gets too hot... hahaha... j/k
Ok, I'll get to work on the .00005 amp draw pcmcia fan.......:smileyvery-happy:
Ya, I know it ain't too bad, though the dell (600m in particular) is warmer than most. The Sony S260 (?) and HP dv1000 (aka 1040, 10x0) are good units that get no more than warm, but they only have onboard video and are unique to the person who shops them as the Sony is 12" and the HP is more a portable dvd player, but good nonetheless. Both are widescreen (which I'm not a fan of yet) and have slightly different aesthetics/ergonomics so probably just a matter of getting used to.
I just like the 600m as it's perfect for me. It has great size. Good weight. Great ergonomics/aesthetics w/ buttons in the right places........(being a Thinkpad person, I'm a fan of onboard buttons for volume, etc.) Wish it had play/rew/ff/pause/stop buttons, but can't have everything in one laptop.
And as for newer technology, that's kinda' what prompted me to comment about these newer units as my 5100 which has been hounded repeatedly on this forum and others for having *overheat* problems and burning people, etc. etc. was one of the cooler running Dells I've ever encountered. The 600m, on the other hand is quite warm in comparison. This, prompted my hounding of the almighty CENTRINO technology. In fact, the cpu *can* run cooler.....(though not always)....but it's the other components that seem to run warmer, or IOW, trap more heat due to the nature of the beast. ???
No offense meant, none taken, just wishin' I was a little closer to the ODM source. (Oh, and that reminds me........I was going to suggest that it appears many ODM's cater heavily to the sellers like Dell, HP, etc. so I figured if Dell wanted 'em cooler, they'd tell folks like Compal, Sager, Quanta, Winstron, etc. to make 'em cooler or lose thier business............Hmmmmmmm..........now there's a thought, Michael Dell!!!?!?!)
Yes... in fact, most of those heat coming from laptops aren't only just from the processor alone. The RAM, Wireless Card runs pretty hot too. I know this because I use them in lectures and it can be a real pain.
They [Dell] can request that ODMs manufacture higher quality products with lower heat dissapation but I doubt that would be ever likely to happen unfortunately. :(... Consumers want the best performance per buck, so they're already cutting corners here and there... esp on the Insp 8600 line which is a real pity.
I thought the 600m line didn't have much heating problems... I know the 8600 runs a bit hotter as we have the Mobility 9600 Pro graphics in there... :). The 5100/5150/5160 line is poorly designed with all the heat problems, etc but I think it is just the platform and processor (P4M) that is running into a brick wall b/c they produce too much heat... thatz why Intel's scraping it sometime very soon.
True, although my 5100 was particularly cool. Gaming could get the cpu up into the low 60's celsius, but I can do the same with my 600m too, (though usually mid 50's for the 600m).
But my 5100 also idled and ran mid-range cpu-intensive stuff cooler than my 600m does. And since there was more room it didn't get as hot as my 600m does on the bottom
My 5100 was a P4/2.66Ghz/512mb/ATI7500 32mb/30gb/dvd-cdrw. It was a great machine just a little slow due to the 4,200rpm drive. If I put a 7,200rpm drive in it, it'd probably have been at least as fast as my 600m.
The 600m won't burn the skin...(I don't think, anyway).....but it will certainly get hot enough to make a lap uncomfortable.
A quick fix for some of this would be a finned bottom. If they truly want to dissipate heat from the bottom of these systems, I don't understand why they don't do that. My old A22m Thinkpad utilizes this feature and the ribbing is actually quite thin, but effective in the *feel* department. And, imho, if you can convince the MIND, then you can convince the SOUL!! LOL!!! And, actually, my Thinkpad's bottom is more of what I'd call ***ribbed*** than finned, but you get the idea. This actually allows for a better grip on the bottom when you're "one-handing" it. ????
Wow, that's quite interesting. I must say that I've also heard that Samsung chips run cooler. I wonder if you'd be willing to use Fangui to monitor the temps on your ram??
It appears that you could get *all* of the temps on your 8500 as it does on my 600m. It won't tell you what temps your Intel 2200 is running, but it will tell you CPU/GPU/HD and (most interesting to me) your DIMM temps. Once installed you just use the options button and look around on the folder tabs and you'll be able to see where you can make it monitor your other temps. (by default it'll just monitor your CPU). It's a simple, effective and harmless program that'll let you into "the know" on your system.
Another reason I thought of that *might* make it seem as though your Intel 2200 isn't running very hot is that your bay doors may be plastic like my 5100's were as opposed to aluminum like my 600m's are. The aluminum bay doors absorb the heat much more and Dell's even installed "heat catchers" (Yes, the sticker inside even says the word "catcher") on the inside of the already heat-catching aluminum bay doors. Do ya' think they want these bay doors to catch heat or what?? LOL!!!
Anyway, if you'd be willing to check some temps & report back here, I'd appreciate it and I'm sure others would too as we march toward trying to make these things cooler. TIA
I have an 8500. I just upgraded the RAM to 1 gig (two 512 meg SODIMMs). The new RAM is manufactured by Samsung. The two 256 meg SODIMMs that were in the laptop previously have a manufacturer stamp of hynix. The new RAM (Samsung) seems to run a lot cooler than the old RAM. I have been sitting here with the laptop on the couch tonight and it is noticeably cooler.
I also added an Intel 2200BG internal wireless card as well. I am surprised that it doesn't seem to be running too hot at full throttle (54 Mbps).
I believe the compartment doors are the same... plastic with an aluminum lining. I have a friend who has the 5150. I noticed that it seems to be better equipped for cooling than this 8500.
yea... I have been running i8fangui since I got the laptop. The DIMM temps are currently at 47 degrees C. I have had the laptop sitting on my lap and I have been doing some intensive stuff. If it was sitting on my Targus Cool Pad getting good air flow, then the temps would probably be a little lower.
Just as I posted that message, I noticed that the DIMM temps had gone down to 46. :)
Man, now you're makin' me feel "whiny". LOL!!!! My DIMM temps in my 600m are usually around 43*C. Hot is usually 45*C. I'm hoping a new RAM that I'm going to try will put me closer to 40*C as a constant and possibly into the 30's.
Can you tell me if your bay doors are aluminum or plastic??
(Be careful not to be tricked too as my 5100's were plastic BUT they did have an aluminum plate lining the inside. But my 5100's also had a vent slit in the door......maybe another idea these other Dells should've incorporated? And my 600m's are ALL aluminum with that film-type heat catcher inner lining.) Thanks again.
Clzwld
22 Posts
0
November 20th, 2004 15:00
Clzwld
22 Posts
0
November 22nd, 2004 17:00
quietpc
285 Posts
0
November 23rd, 2004 23:00
Can you also mention which model you have??
In my opinion, all of these run too hot. Dell would like us to fall into the belief that these are no longer LAPTOPS, but, in fact, NOTEBOOKS. Well, I really don't care what they want to call it. 90% of the time mine ends up on my LAP!!! If I am using a *notebook* it, too ends up on my LAP!!!
I know there have been hot laptops since Pentium 1 or even earlier (I recall some folks complaining of hot 486 laptops).....BUT..........that still does not excuse the fact that these things are just running too hot these days. I also have an IBM Thinkpad A22M and I can tell you that the thing gets no hotter than *warm*. Thus, it's a crying shame to see that we are to simply go along with all of this *hot* being OK business.
I can only hope that at some point in the future, someone at Dell makes the decision that it's no longer "OK" for these things to run so hot. I feel that it's just not right, and am for one, ashamed to see so many people rewarding mfgrs for selling hot laptops.
FWIW, there are also much cooler laptops out there. They are typically a few bucks more as Dell seems to be selling on price these days more than quality, but it just might be well worth the extra money spent to have a LAPTOP and not a clothes-iron furnace-type of a NOTEBOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :robotmad:
amazingspeed11
103 Posts
0
November 30th, 2004 10:00
hahaha....
it is always the typical complaint of notebook or laptops if you want to call it that way.... But you would have to give this piece of machine some credit... The platform's agile and fast, the performance is higher than the previous generations, and basically, the technology is still pretty much the same except for some modifications here and there...
Most of Dell notebooks have the RAMs located underneath the chassis for easy access as many customers requested but this has resulted in extra heat "transmitted" to the bottom.
Most computers are built on the edge of thermal design, so have some gratitude for the great job the engineers did. I know it is kinda hot but considering you have so much in a small space, it is quite reasonable. I do like other notebooks that are warm to touch but I would rather prefer the heat being dissapated rather than "contained" inside. If itz too hot for you, get a notebook cooler... ;) Other designs from other manufacturers claim to maximise heat dissapation for lower temperature to the touch but this is reflected in the higher prices... eg, Asustek, etc . Furthermore, they are equipped with inferior hardware compared to Dell. Dell still has one of the best hardware (other than Alienware, etc) for power users and gamers alike... and not to mention, practical and cost-wise too!
Amazingspeed. :)
Clzwld
22 Posts
0
November 30th, 2004 12:00
quietpc
285 Posts
0
November 30th, 2004 16:00
Agreed! :smileywink:
And believe me, I'm trying hard to make this a better laptop. I'm working with a company on ordering from overseas the coolest version of RAM yet made in a SODIMM format. I've already tried Elixir's best attempt and it really isn't much different except for overall size. I commend them on that much as in such small bay areas such as the 600m and I'm sure other Centrinos that allows for more cubic air space, but it's still only a small improvement.
Another one of the items onboard that I'm quite surprised with is the Mini-PCI card. My 600m happens to be using the Intel 2200 b/g card, but this puppy gets as hot as the ram does. I would think they could control this better, but perhaps (again) I'm expecting too much. To my surprise, the original beef about the 600m during almost all of 2003 was the Hard Drive temps, but I find my Toshiba 40GB 5,400rpm drive to run tolerably. Its heat-up point is around 43*C and my palm rest gets warm but not hot. Others report 50's & 60's which is just outrageous, imho so I can't complain.
I still think I could ventilate this machine better as I've had to find complex ways to cool combustion engines before in cramped quarters and I find this no different. (Air-cooled German engines, no less so I don't buy the "radiator" bit). But, I'll just have to improve as I go & report back here so hopefully other folks can gain as well. If I patent the pcmcia fan, I'll be sure to post my website here. :smileywink:
amazingspeed11
103 Posts
0
November 30th, 2004 19:00
One way... wait for newer technologies to come out. ;)... they're sure to run cooler and for more performance. Blame Intel if your lappy gets too hot... hahaha... j/k
Amazingspeed
quietpc
285 Posts
0
November 30th, 2004 20:00
Ok, I'll get to work on the .00005 amp draw pcmcia fan.......:smileyvery-happy:
Ya, I know it ain't too bad, though the dell (600m in particular) is warmer than most. The Sony S260 (?) and HP dv1000 (aka 1040, 10x0) are good units that get no more than warm, but they only have onboard video and are unique to the person who shops them as the Sony is 12" and the HP is more a portable dvd player, but good nonetheless. Both are widescreen (which I'm not a fan of yet) and have slightly different aesthetics/ergonomics so probably just a matter of getting used to.
I just like the 600m as it's perfect for me. It has great size. Good weight. Great ergonomics/aesthetics w/ buttons in the right places........(being a Thinkpad person, I'm a fan of onboard buttons for volume, etc.) Wish it had play/rew/ff/pause/stop buttons, but can't have everything in one laptop.
And as for newer technology, that's kinda' what prompted me to comment about these newer units as my 5100 which has been hounded repeatedly on this forum and others for having *overheat* problems and burning people, etc. etc. was one of the cooler running Dells I've ever encountered. The 600m, on the other hand is quite warm in comparison. This, prompted my hounding of the almighty CENTRINO technology. In fact, the cpu *can* run cooler.....(though not always)....but it's the other components that seem to run warmer, or IOW, trap more heat due to the nature of the beast. ???
No offense meant, none taken, just wishin' I was a little closer to the ODM source. (Oh, and that reminds me........I was going to suggest that it appears many ODM's cater heavily to the sellers like Dell, HP, etc. so I figured if Dell wanted 'em cooler, they'd tell folks like Compal, Sager, Quanta, Winstron, etc. to make 'em cooler or lose thier business............Hmmmmmmm..........now there's a thought, Michael Dell!!!?!?!)
amazingspeed11
103 Posts
0
November 30th, 2004 20:00
Hello.
Yes... in fact, most of those heat coming from laptops aren't only just from the processor alone. The RAM, Wireless Card runs pretty hot too. I know this because I use them in lectures and it can be a real pain.
They [Dell] can request that ODMs manufacture higher quality products with lower heat dissapation but I doubt that would be ever likely to happen unfortunately. :(... Consumers want the best performance per buck, so they're already cutting corners here and there... esp on the Insp 8600 line which is a real pity.
I thought the 600m line didn't have much heating problems... I know the 8600 runs a bit hotter as we have the Mobility 9600 Pro graphics in there... :). The 5100/5150/5160 line is poorly designed with all the heat problems, etc but I think it is just the platform and processor (P4M) that is running into a brick wall b/c they produce too much heat... thatz why Intel's scraping it sometime very soon.
Cheers,
Amazingspeed
quietpc
285 Posts
0
November 30th, 2004 21:00
True, although my 5100 was particularly cool. Gaming could get the cpu up into the low 60's celsius, but I can do the same with my 600m too, (though usually mid 50's for the 600m).
But my 5100 also idled and ran mid-range cpu-intensive stuff cooler than my 600m does. And since there was more room it didn't get as hot as my 600m does on the bottom
My 5100 was a P4/2.66Ghz/512mb/ATI7500 32mb/30gb/dvd-cdrw. It was a great machine just a little slow due to the 4,200rpm drive. If I put a 7,200rpm drive in it, it'd probably have been at least as fast as my 600m.
The 600m won't burn the skin...(I don't think, anyway).....but it will certainly get hot enough to make a lap uncomfortable.
A quick fix for some of this would be a finned bottom. If they truly want to dissipate heat from the bottom of these systems, I don't understand why they don't do that. My old A22m Thinkpad utilizes this feature and the ribbing is actually quite thin, but effective in the *feel* department. And, imho, if you can convince the MIND, then you can convince the SOUL!! LOL!!! And, actually, my Thinkpad's bottom is more of what I'd call ***ribbed*** than finned, but you get the idea. This actually allows for a better grip on the bottom when you're "one-handing" it. ????
quietpc
285 Posts
0
December 1st, 2004 01:00
Wow, that's quite interesting. I must say that I've also heard that Samsung chips run cooler. I wonder if you'd be willing to use Fangui to monitor the temps on your ram??
http://www.diefer.de/i8kfan/
It appears that you could get *all* of the temps on your 8500 as it does on my 600m. It won't tell you what temps your Intel 2200 is running, but it will tell you CPU/GPU/HD and (most interesting to me) your DIMM temps. Once installed you just use the options button and look around on the folder tabs and you'll be able to see where you can make it monitor your other temps. (by default it'll just monitor your CPU). It's a simple, effective and harmless program that'll let you into "the know" on your system.
Another reason I thought of that *might* make it seem as though your Intel 2200 isn't running very hot is that your bay doors may be plastic like my 5100's were as opposed to aluminum like my 600m's are. The aluminum bay doors absorb the heat much more and Dell's even installed "heat catchers" (Yes, the sticker inside even says the word "catcher") on the inside of the already heat-catching aluminum bay doors. Do ya' think they want these bay doors to catch heat or what?? LOL!!!
Anyway, if you'd be willing to check some temps & report back here, I'd appreciate it and I'm sure others would too as we march toward trying to make these things cooler. TIA
dirgon
174 Posts
0
December 1st, 2004 01:00
I also added an Intel 2200BG internal wireless card as well. I am surprised that it doesn't seem to be running too hot at full throttle (54 Mbps).
dirgon
174 Posts
0
December 1st, 2004 02:00
dirgon
174 Posts
0
December 1st, 2004 02:00
Just as I posted that message, I noticed that the DIMM temps had gone down to 46. :)
Message Edited by dirgon on 11-30-2004 10:09 PM
quietpc
285 Posts
0
December 1st, 2004 02:00