You are really unlucky to receive three flat panels with stuck pixels in a row. I guess everyone who's aware of deal pixel problem crosses his/her fingers when ordering a flat panel online. So did I and I was lucky so far with two orders and no dead pixels. Dell probably can politely refuse another replacement since their quality standards allow up to 5 dead pixels. (http://support.dell.com/us/en/kb/document.asp?dn=1018431)
With flat panel production reaches mass quantity and manufacturing technology improves, throwing away dead pixel panels probably won't cost too much as it was for manufacturers, so the dead pixel policy should be changed accordingly. No dead pixel is what every consumers want. It's not really being fanatic.
You probably want to try another model. 17" is a little small for me when viewing text. The text is clear and legible just small.
Disclosure: FWIW, the two flat panels I ordered (from Dell) with no dead pixels are Viewsonic VP171b and Dell 1901FP.
Up to 5 dead pixels are acceptable and industry standard?!? That anything less does NOT detract from the image quality of the monitor?
What kind of standard is that? I think Dell needs to put this link/disclaimer on all their product webpages for their monitors.
What if other businesses took on that same standard? When you buy a new car, suppose there's 5 paint chips or dents on the car. What if the contact lenses or pair of sunglasses have 5 cracks, rips or scratches on them? Suppose you get laser surgery and you have 5 dead spots with your vision?
Had I known about this industry standard before things may have been different.
Message Edited by Moose Knuckle on 03-18-2004 10:31 AM
Wow! Either you are really unlucky, or the quality standard has gone way down hill. Did you happen to check the build dates on any of the monitors you returned? Rumor is that the early build dates are the worst for dead/stuck pixels. By now I'm sure Dell is re-shipping the early returned monitors. I wonder if you got a couple of original returns with a November build date that was checked by Dell then shipped again as new?
I received two of these monitors at school on Monday. One for myself and the other for the secretary. I set both up and they were perfect in every way! Great colors NO DEAD pixels. The only complaint I have, is wow, what a bright screen! I had to turn the brightness down to 70 which fixed that........... Seems to be pretty good!
One question. Do they have a 1 or 3 year warranty? I bought it with a system with a one year basic warranty. However if you by the monitor by itself its 3 years???????????
One question. Do they have a 1 or 3 year warranty? I bought it with a system with a one year basic warranty. However if you by the monitor by itself its 3 years???????????
Yep. Strange but true! I bought my first with a system (1 year system warranty) thinking I would be getting the advertised 3 year monitor warranty. Now I buy the monitors separately (usually cheaper too since you can get them on sale and buy the computer when the "special" is something other than monitor discounts). Oh, of the 4 Dell LCD monitors there were no dead pixels (1504FP, 2-1702FP, 2001FP).
Well keep in mind, you didn't buy one of the ULTRA SHARP displays, I bet you wouldn't have had one dead pixel on it! I know TONS of people who have them and never once have I heard one complaint! If you go cheap, you get cheap:)
"Well keep in mind, you didn't buy one of the ULTRA SHARP displays, I bet you wouldn't have had one dead pixel on it! I know TONS of people who have them and never once have I heard one complaint! If you go cheap, you get cheap:) "
My school has 5 of the Ultra sharp monitors that are on 24hrs a day, never shut off. TWO died after only 2 weeks of use and had to be replaced last week. I would say thats worse than a dead pixel. I also wouldn't say $450 for a monitor is cheap... JMO
I saw the specs on the UltraSharp and on the only thing majorly different is another 5 degrees or so of viewing angle. Even the Dell sales rep on the phone said that it's not worth it and to use the money on upgrades for the computer. I don't know about you, but I don't have friends over the house to watch movies on a computer monitor--that's what my 65" widescreen TV is for. There isn't a bunch of people corraled around a screen to watch something. It's me and only me. Plus I don't want people at an angle to know when I'm looking at porn.
Message Edited by Moose Knuckle on 03-24-2004 12:16 PM
The extra viewing angle means you can move around with less dimming and the screen will also appear more uniform, especially if you are sitting close. It's more than 5 degrees -- E172 is +/-60V +/-70H while the 1703FP is +/-85V and +/-85H -- basically you can view from any angle at all! In addition the 1703FP has 600:1 rather than 400:1 contrast ratio, supports portrait mode, and, perhaps most important of all, supports a DVI connection.
Well keep in mind, you didn't buy one of the ULTRA SHARP displays, I bet you wouldn't have had one dead pixel on it! I know TONS of people who have them and never once have I heard one complaint! If you go cheap, you get cheap:)
-----------
I bought a 17" ULTRA SHARP and I got one dead pixel.
To the person above, did you end up keeping the monitor or getting a replacing it?
Thanks for the info, talmy. I was actually too lazy to read the specs, but the Dell sales rep still said it wasn't worth it. I wouldn't mind upgrading once I get a computer for the family. I'm just scared of going through all the hassle again. It wasn't until the 4th monitor did I finally get a perfect one. After going back and forth with Dell, I'm not willing to go through that again.
The truth is that dead pixels are a fact of life with flat panels. It always has been. Untill they get better MFG. processes togather, it will always be a problem. I understand the frustration, but it is a common problem. I would say dell was nice to ship out 4 different displays just to make you happy. Try that with HP or Gateway, and I bet that you would have been refused. I am glad that you got a good one now, and I hope that I will too, mine is coming tomorrow :) but I would not be mad at dell for the problem. It is a wide spread problem, for every MFG'r.
I understand what you are saying, but I don’t buy it. As an electronics manufacturing engineer by profession that just goes against my grain. I would never manufacture, or release to the public a product that wasn’t 100%. Think about it. Would you accept a V8 in your car that only fired on 6, but the manufacturer said live with it? Would you accept a tire that wouldn’t hold air, but the manufacturer said that’s acceptable? Of course not! The same thing applies to LCD flat panels. If as a manufacturer you can’t build a product 100% then you simply don’t sell/release it! If at the end of the manufacturing process for a LCD panel there are 5 dead pixels out of 1,920,000 then you rework it until there are NO dead pixels. I don’t know who started that 5 dead pixels is Ok B.S., but I can tell you in my world that doesn’t work. I can also tell you as a consumer that if I ever heard that B.S. from a manufacturer I would never buy from them again. I would also go out of my way to make sure no one around me buys from that manufacturer. Just my .02 cents from someone that is in the electronics manufacturing business.
To the person above, did you end up keeping the monitor or getting a replacing it?
I kept it with the one dead pixel. I bought a NEC 1765 before this and it had 2 stuck pixels, one green and one teal (I guess 2 color were stuck). The stuck pixels were very noticeable while watching DVD. I returned the NEC and got the 1703FP instead. The one dead pixel on the 1703 is not that noticeable, so I decided to keep it.
I understand what you are saying, but I don’t buy it. As an electronics manufacturing engineer by profession that just goes against my grain. I would never manufacture, or release to the public a product that wasn’t 100%.
Nice thought, but the reality of the situation is that when LCD panels were first manufactured they probably would have had ZERO yield if they had to be perfect. So the manufacturers set a level of "acceptable" dead pixels which would give a reasonable enough yield to make the panels affordable. The problem is that as manufacturing processes improved the acceptance level was not changed. They could certainly grade them now and have a series with zero bad pixels and another (at lower cost) with some bad pixels for those people who don't mind but want a bargain (much like "seconds" of clothing at outlet stores). Actually, very analogous to this, back in my teenage years in the 1960's I used to make money replacing color picture tubes in peoples TVs. I'd buy RCA tubes and they came in two lines, the cheaper line would have some bad phosphor dots, giving the same appearance as these LCDs with dead pixels. Most people went with the cheaper tubes.
wtl
48 Posts
0
March 18th, 2004 14:00
With flat panel production reaches mass quantity and manufacturing technology improves, throwing away dead pixel panels probably won't cost too much as it was for manufacturers, so the dead pixel policy should be changed accordingly. No dead pixel is what every consumers want. It's not really being fanatic.
You probably want to try another model. 17" is a little small for me when viewing text. The text is clear and legible just small.
Disclosure: FWIW, the two flat panels I ordered (from Dell) with no dead pixels are Viewsonic VP171b and Dell 1901FP.
Moose Knuckle
5 Posts
0
March 18th, 2004 16:00
Up to 5 dead pixels are acceptable and industry standard?!? That anything less does NOT detract from the image quality of the monitor?
What kind of standard is that? I think Dell needs to put this link/disclaimer on all their product webpages for their monitors.
What if other businesses took on that same standard? When you buy a new car, suppose there's 5 paint chips or dents on the car. What if the contact lenses or pair of sunglasses have 5 cracks, rips or scratches on them? Suppose you get laser surgery and you have 5 dead spots with your vision?
Had I known about this industry standard before things may have been different.
Message Edited by Moose Knuckle on 03-18-2004 10:31 AM
Joe Average
179 Posts
0
March 18th, 2004 19:00
AximAl
2 Posts
0
March 19th, 2004 00:00
I received two of these monitors at school on Monday. One for myself and the other for the secretary. I set both up and they were perfect in every way! Great colors NO DEAD pixels. The only complaint I have, is wow, what a bright screen! I had to turn the brightness down to 70 which fixed that........... Seems to be pretty good!
One question. Do they have a 1 or 3 year warranty? I bought it with a system with a one year basic warranty. However if you by the monitor by itself its 3 years???????????
talmy
1K Posts
0
March 19th, 2004 13:00
Yep. Strange but true! I bought my first with a system (1 year system warranty) thinking I would be getting the advertised 3 year monitor warranty. Now I buy the monitors separately (usually cheaper too since you can get them on sale and buy the computer when the "special" is something other than monitor discounts). Oh, of the 4 Dell LCD monitors there were no dead pixels (1504FP, 2-1702FP, 2001FP).
Sseaott
98 Posts
0
March 24th, 2004 08:00
AximAl
2 Posts
0
March 24th, 2004 11:00
NOT TRUE!
"Well keep in mind, you didn't buy one of the ULTRA SHARP displays, I bet you wouldn't have had one dead pixel on it! I know TONS of people who have them and never once have I heard one complaint! If you go cheap, you get cheap:) "
My school has 5 of the Ultra sharp monitors that are on 24hrs a day, never shut off. TWO died after only 2 weeks of use and had to be replaced last week. I would say thats worse than a dead pixel. I also wouldn't say $450 for a monitor is cheap... JMO
Moose Knuckle
5 Posts
0
March 24th, 2004 13:00
$450 is cheap for a monitor?
I saw the specs on the UltraSharp and on the only thing majorly different is another 5 degrees or so of viewing angle. Even the Dell sales rep on the phone said that it's not worth it and to use the money on upgrades for the computer. I don't know about you, but I don't have friends over the house to watch movies on a computer monitor--that's what my 65" widescreen TV is for. There isn't a bunch of people corraled around a screen to watch something. It's me and only me. Plus I don't want people at an angle to know when I'm looking at porn.
Message Edited by Moose Knuckle on 03-24-2004 12:16 PM
talmy
1K Posts
0
March 24th, 2004 16:00
PDA Stephen
22 Posts
0
March 24th, 2004 17:00
----------
Well keep in mind, you didn't buy one of the ULTRA SHARP displays, I bet you wouldn't have had one dead pixel on it! I know TONS of people who have them and never once have I heard one complaint! If you go cheap, you get cheap:)
-----------
I bought a 17" ULTRA SHARP and I got one dead pixel.
Moose Knuckle
5 Posts
0
March 24th, 2004 18:00
To the person above, did you end up keeping the monitor or getting a replacing it?
Thanks for the info, talmy. I was actually too lazy to read the specs, but the Dell sales rep still said it wasn't worth it. I wouldn't mind upgrading once I get a computer for the family. I'm just scared of going through all the hassle again. It wasn't until the 4th monitor did I finally get a perfect one. After going back and forth with Dell, I'm not willing to go through that again.
supacool
33 Posts
0
March 25th, 2004 02:00
The truth is that dead pixels are a fact of life with flat panels. It always has been. Untill they get better MFG. processes togather, it will always be a problem. I understand the frustration, but it is a common problem. I would say dell was nice to ship out 4 different displays just to make you happy. Try that with HP or Gateway, and I bet that you would have been refused. I am glad that you got a good one now, and I hope that I will too, mine is coming tomorrow :) but I would not be mad at dell for the problem. It is a wide spread problem, for every MFG'r.
SUPA
Joe Average
179 Posts
0
March 25th, 2004 10:00
I understand what you are saying, but I don’t buy it. As an electronics manufacturing engineer by profession that just goes against my grain. I would never manufacture, or release to the public a product that wasn’t 100%. Think about it. Would you accept a V8 in your car that only fired on 6, but the manufacturer said live with it? Would you accept a tire that wouldn’t hold air, but the manufacturer said that’s acceptable? Of course not! The same thing applies to LCD flat panels. If as a manufacturer you can’t build a product 100% then you simply don’t sell/release it! If at the end of the manufacturing process for a LCD panel there are 5 dead pixels out of 1,920,000 then you rework it until there are NO dead pixels. I don’t know who started that 5 dead pixels is Ok B.S., but I can tell you in my world that doesn’t work. I can also tell you as a consumer that if I ever heard that B.S. from a manufacturer I would never buy from them again. I would also go out of my way to make sure no one around me buys from that manufacturer. Just my .02 cents from someone that is in the electronics manufacturing business.
PDA Stephen
22 Posts
0
March 25th, 2004 12:00
To the person above, did you end up keeping the monitor or getting a replacing it?
I kept it with the one dead pixel. I bought a NEC 1765 before this and it had 2 stuck pixels, one green and one teal (I guess 2 color were stuck). The stuck pixels were very noticeable while watching DVD. I returned the NEC and got the 1703FP instead. The one dead pixel on the 1703 is not that noticeable, so I decided to keep it.
talmy
1K Posts
0
March 25th, 2004 13:00
Nice thought, but the reality of the situation is that when LCD panels were first manufactured they probably would have had ZERO yield if they had to be perfect. So the manufacturers set a level of "acceptable" dead pixels which would give a reasonable enough yield to make the panels affordable. The problem is that as manufacturing processes improved the acceptance level was not changed. They could certainly grade them now and have a series with zero bad pixels and another (at lower cost) with some bad pixels for those people who don't mind but want a bargain (much like "seconds" of clothing at outlet stores). Actually, very analogous to this, back in my teenage years in the 1960's I used to make money replacing color picture tubes in peoples TVs. I'd buy RCA tubes and they came in two lines, the cheaper line would have some bad phosphor dots, giving the same appearance as these LCDs with dead pixels. Most people went with the cheaper tubes.