Way to many issues with Vista, it'll have you pulling your hair out.
You couldn't pay me to use Vista now, but some may like it :)
Use XP Pro and Dell won't tell you that, they’ll keep working with Vista :)
Vista + graphics driver = conflicts, all the time.
If you absolutely have to have Vista try the following, Oh and post back how you finally corrected the issue.
1. Does Dell force you to use a proprietary graphics driver?
2. Did you try nVidia 169 beta graphics driver from the nVidia website?
It corrects a lot of problems for many users.
Since the system slows with the (3. What Version of the graphics driver do you use?) nVidia driver, definitely there is your conflict.
Drivers, mobo, video card swapping , you are on the right track.
See if there is another Unified nVidia driver set, if your mobo uses that type driver set, it has GART, Audio, Nic, IDE drivers, Etc.
I think Unified 510 is good or newer.
Newer is not always better.
Don't install the IDE drivers, uncheck it, let Windows use it's own. Reboot twice or thrice and IDE’s will install automatically on the reboots.
The IDE's from nVidia can be problematic.
Don't waste your money with the Geek Squad, maybe some have luck with them but in general it's just a rip off.
The Geek squad is going to make millions off of Vista OS from Microstuff.
Your post is long if anything overlaps, ignore it :)
Post back I really want to know the fix for your problems.
When in doubt, dump Vista and use XP Pro :)
Good Day :)
Message Edited by all the facts on 12-16-2007 04:21 PM
Silver - thank you for your prompt response and for your advice. I will try to answer your questions, in the hope it will shed some light on the problem. Dell did not force me to use any proprietary drivers. I have tried the 8600 drivers from both the Dell and nVidia websites. I have tried version 169 Beta, as well as the 163 set from nVidia. Didn't help. According to my device manager, I am currently running version 7.15.11.622, from nVidia, on 7-06-07. At one point, I had let Windows choose the drivers, but that didn't help either. What is a "Unified" driver set? Where can I find the Unified 510 of which you make note? I'm not sure as to which IDE drivers you are referring. If you mean the drivers for the PCI bus, I let Windows choose. Currently, I have installed version 6.0.6000.16400, from Microsoft, on 6-21-06. At one point, I also let Windows choose the drivers for the video card. I also rebooted three or four times. Didn't help. Does the above help any? Does anyone know how I can contact nVidia about this problem? I have absolutely no problem with the tech sent by the Geek Squad from the local Best Buy. He is professional, knowlegable, thorough, and cooperative. This is in contrast to the techs sent by Dell. When I first bought the XPS 600, I purchased the home setup and data transfer option. the assigned tech didn't show up for his first two appointments. i therefore lost two entire days from my job right off the bat. the third day, he didn't show until after 4 PM, and didn't leave until after 7 PM. Another wasted day. I'm a doctor - do the math as to the system I could have bought had I been able to charge them for my wasted time. When Dell later sent more onsite techs to replace various hardware that failed on the 600, the first tech switched the order of my two mirrored hard drives. Dell tech support was subsequently mystified as to why i was having reinstall problems, not to mention an inability to reformat the raid configuration. Their solution was to replace the 600 with the 720. the Geek Squad tech finally figured it out when he was backing up my data. Boy, did that cost me a lot of time and money. thanks again.
TO: “gpro”, Please read the thread, what do you think?, ATI/nVidia driver or hardware conflict or switch to XP PRO? :)
Looks like Dr. Bill tried everything else.
Your opinion is welcomed and appreciated.
TO: Dr. Bill
Summary:
Uninstall ATI card and it’s drivers from PC.
Sometimes ATI drivers will leave files behind and still cause trouble. You may need a driver cleaner tool and if that doesn’t work then start from a fresh install and without that ATI card or its drivers, see if that works.
If that works then you might want to switch to an ATI Video card if you want to use that ATI analog/digital tuner card, you will see why as you read on.
Now for the long version, “the why”, for you and others that read here :)
Sometimes ATI and nVidia drivers will conflict and cause a slow down and hose your system to point of having to restore it. It will seem like it takes forever to boot or reboot your PC.
I have an ATI HDTV tuner card with an nVidia video card. If I open the HDTV tuner part it’s O.K., but if I open the analog cable TV part, the system stalls and hoses my XP Pro system where I have to do a restore point recovery. Nothing else will work at that point to recover my system to normal conditions.
Uninstalling the video card driver and reinstalling it won’t work either.
Important Note: When I do a fresh install of the OS (XP Pro), then install the HDTV ATI software, I do not install the cable TV or Analog part and only then can I can use my nVidia 6800XT with my ATI HDTV card in the same PC. If I install the analog cable tuner software and click on it to open it, that is the specific point that causes my system to slow to an unusable speed and then I have to do a system restore.
You stated, “Vista gives me a message saying there is a "problem caused by nVidia graphics driver", that’s a sign that there may be an ATI / nVidia drivers conflict and the message will only point you to nVidia and all the while it’s that ATI analog driver or whole ATI driver set in conjunction with the nVidia driver.
If your case is similar as above, do a fresh install of Vista and don’t install the ATI drivers at all, I don’t think you will have to remove the ATI card from your PC and see if it solves your video card driver issues.
You also stated, “I have been working for months with a senior resolution support tech to resolve the issue. All the Dell 32 bit hardware diagnostics are normal. We have been through the bios settings numerous times. We have uninstalled and reinstalled various drivers, ad infinitum. When we uninstall the nVidia drivers and the pci bus drivers, the system goes like lightning.”
If the ATI card is in a PCI slot and you remove the pci bus drivers then the nVidia driver won’t conflict with it because the OS shouldn’t be able to see that ATI card or it’s drivers if you uninstalled it and all of the remnants. That’s probably your conflict and that’s why when the drivers can’t see each other your system will run as you stated “system goes like lightning”.
So in your case if you need the ATI PCI card then you should consider switching to an ATI video card as their drivers should and do play better together.
If that idea above didn’t work.
Then you need to try XP Pro.
Don’t install the ATI drivers and may have to pull the card from the PC.
O.K., so here is what I would do now ,
1. Back up your data,
2. Do a fresh install of XP Home or XP Pro. I would use XP Pro.
3. Don’t hook up any peripherals, just mouse, keys and monitor.
4. Install any chipset drivers or SATA drivers you need for that mobo and then
5. Install the video card driver, try 169 beta
If that corrects the issues you are experiencing with your video card driver, then that’s it, you are done.
Finish your other application installs.
If the issues start again, then at that point of the newly added software, is your conflict point.
It shouldn’t occur with XP Pro.
You can take the same install approach with your Vista fresh install and see what happens and note at what point in time the video card driver issue starts to act up. Just trying to eliminate any peripheral driver conflicts with printers or scanners.
As far as office 2007 and Dragon NaturallySpeaking, I don’t have any issues with XP Pro.
System Monitors may slow your system down, but you said it’s the video card driver that causes your trouble.
You have tried all the run of the mill troubleshooting angles with no luck that’s why I recommend this course of treatment. A doc joke :)
In many similar situations such as yours, switching to XP Pro just works.
Another idea.
This may also be a PCI bus driver/chip issue.
I have personally experienced a motherboard South Bridge chip issue with an nVidia chipset driver conflict. What this would result in is that the optical dvd/cd drives would just stop reading files as it would loose it’s connection within minutes of any use.
In my case nVidia blamed the motherboard manufacturer and mobo manufacturer blamed nVidia. As a result of this I was stuck with the mobo until I exchanged it for another model that solved that. Thousands of customers were upset. to say the least.
Other Info.
Slow performance can be caused by driver to driver conflicts (especially nVidia / ATI drivers on the same PC), OS to driver conflicts, chipset to driver conflicts, hardware issues, Spyware, a Virus, the latest Microsoft recommended Security Updates, other Updates and Hot fixes as well as others.
I remember one of Microsoft’s fixes that crippled 1,000,000’s of PC’s, yes that was Millions.
Note:
Reinstall issues like unwanted reboots in the middle of the install process and blue screens of death can be power supply issues. Not enough juice.
If the Geek Squad or any other tech. help persons you have encountered haven’t recommended switching to XP Pro or explained the ATI/nVidia driver conflict issue, as it occurs all the time, they are either inexperienced or just useless. The Geek Squad is really good at taking your money politely. $750 and did not recommend trying XP Pro or ATI / nVidia issue as a solution is appalling to me (because I know better), they should have tried those solutions near the beginning. That’s just the way it is and well known in my world of I.T.
Troubleshooting here is a hobby.
I design and build PC’s for extreme multimedia applications, specialized speed demanding applications and high end gaming as a hobby and have resolved issues for 10,000’s of people that just can’t get their issues resolved elsewhere.
The issues you are experiencing would have never occurred from one of my builds, it would have never passed my Q.C testing and therefore never been released to you in the first place, but that’s just me. :)
Screen name is “all the facts” not Silver. Silver is a grade Dell uses for post counts.
Good Luck and Post back after you have tried the ATI/nVidia fix first and then XP Pro if needed, I really want to know if this information resolved your issues.
Happy Holidays to all :)
Message Edited by all the facts on 05-01-2008 08:00 AM
Message Edited by all the facts on 05-01-2008 08:02 AM
All the facts: Wow! Who are you? Even if your suggestions don't work, your delivery is fantastic! If you said "Trust me, I'm your doctor," I might even do anything you asked. Well, maybe not that far. You could be the IT equivalent of a sociopath. But I will try your suggestions, since I don't think they'll kill me (except for time and money). I'll let you know. By the way, if these issues are so well known, how come multiple senior techs at Dell don't admit to knowing about it; and how come Microsoft hasn't at least put out a warning; and what about ATI and nVidia? Are they all perpetuating/complicent in a conspiracy of silence? Doesn't denial of this sort of thing usually come back in the long run to bite a gluteus maximus or two (the site wouldn't let me use the vernaculars)? Doesn't anyone get held responsible? Or maybe some things progress so fast in the computer world that peripheral hardware and software attributes make some conflicts moot before they spread? Six-sigma is ignored, or cost-benefit makes it easier to ignore than to replace/recall? Or perhaps Enron-type deniability still works in the IT industry? Just curious. Personally, I find this aspect of the issue more interesting and worth exploring then my own specific problem.
ATI and nVidia driver conflicts have been ongoing for years. They are the two major competitors in the graphics card biz and they are very aware of compatibility issues. They are not going to work together to resolve these issues. If they had, my ATI HDTV / nVidia conflict issue would have been corrected by now, but it’s not and it’s been the same for 2 years. ATI would tell you to buy an ATI video card and nVidia may say dump the ATI tuner card and try another tuner card brand. It’s all about the money, customer base growth and retention in an economic down turn is crucial to their bottom lines. I provided workarounds, 1. ATI tuner card, eliminate the analog tuner software and that’s from a fresh install, the driver cleaner may not even work. You may have to pull the card from the PCI slot. That’s probably it and you won’t have to buy XP Pro or an ATI card. Hope it’s not a mobo bridge bus chip issue as that should only occur if the 600 and the 720 use the same model mobo and chipset.
You would think Dell techs. would know better, but unfortunately that’s not always the case. So much to learn, so little time. :)
ChrisM should see this thread and pass the information up the line since Dell is eating the cost of the replacement from a 600 to a XPS 720 and you still have the same issues.
ChrisM is an excellent moderator, very consciences and results orientated as you can tell from Chris’s posts here.
The reason for such detail and elaboration regarding workarounds and solutions as others will read this and they can learn from it. (Non-Sociopathic solutions, I also minored in psychology) I found that humorous. :)
It was quit obvious to me that you were oblivious to the wily ways of I.T. profiteering. :)
I am one of the ethical players in the biz. The Geek Squad recommended a new PC. That got you an upgrade from a 600 to a 720 at no cost to you, I hope, but that’s like you telling a patient, well I can’t cure the disease you have because I’m not knowledgeable enough to do so, so I recommend you get a new body and then expose your patient to the same disease. Just a vicious circle. You see how funny that is to me but probably not to you as it cost you a $750 lesson. Ouch! You are probably not aware of the Geek Squad employees that have been caught copying personal files from customers computers, that’s ought right theft. That was in the news. I’m sure they have some good techs. but they won’t last if they don’t bring in the cash. In the future, you may want to avoid them. Seek information in tech. forums and use Google to search, in your case “ATI Tuner card and conflicts with nVidia video card” and variations of that.
As for all your business related questions, I have covered that ground many times before. Customers like you should keep asking those questions because if they don’t the big corporations will ignore them.
I picked this post to resolve your issue because you stated you have been at this for 6 months, way to long, and you provided your issue history in great detail.
I’ll stick with this until your PC issues are resolved. One of the above solutions should resolve your issues.
You won’t have to pay my exorbitant consulting fee. :)
Good Luck and post back with any specific questions.
Also, post here and let everyone know what solution resolved your issues.
“gpro” is a forum member and very good at resolving issues and providing information in great detail. Maybe gpro will have something to add if you get into trouble.
Dr. Bill
4 Posts
0
December 16th, 2007 18:00
all the facts
2 Intern
•
983 Posts
0
December 16th, 2007 20:00
You couldn't pay me to use Vista now, but some may like it :)
Use XP Pro and Dell won't tell you that, they’ll keep working with Vista :)
Vista + graphics driver = conflicts, all the time.
If you absolutely have to have Vista try the following, Oh and post back how you finally corrected the issue.
1. Does Dell force you to use a proprietary graphics driver?
2. Did you try nVidia 169 beta graphics driver from the nVidia website?
It corrects a lot of problems for many users.
http://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us
Since the system slows with the (3. What Version of the graphics driver do you use?) nVidia driver, definitely there is your conflict.
Drivers, mobo, video card swapping , you are on the right track.
See if there is another Unified nVidia driver set, if your mobo uses that type driver set, it has GART, Audio, Nic, IDE drivers, Etc.
I think Unified 510 is good or newer.
Newer is not always better.
Don't install the IDE drivers, uncheck it, let Windows use it's own. Reboot twice or thrice and IDE’s will install automatically on the reboots.
The IDE's from nVidia can be problematic.
Don't waste your money with the Geek Squad, maybe some have luck with them but in general it's just a rip off.
The Geek squad is going to make millions off of Vista OS from Microstuff.
Your post is long if anything overlaps, ignore it :)
Post back I really want to know the fix for your problems.
When in doubt, dump Vista and use XP Pro :)
Good Day :)
Message Edited by all the facts on 12-16-2007 04:21 PM
Dr. Bill
4 Posts
0
December 17th, 2007 02:00
all the facts
2 Intern
•
983 Posts
0
December 18th, 2007 00:00
TO: “gpro”, Please read the thread, what do you think?, ATI/nVidia driver or hardware conflict or switch to XP PRO? :)
Looks like Dr. Bill tried everything else.
Your opinion is welcomed and appreciated.
TO: Dr. Bill
Summary:
Uninstall ATI card and it’s drivers from PC.
Sometimes ATI drivers will leave files behind and still cause trouble. You may need a driver cleaner tool and if that doesn’t work then start from a fresh install and without that ATI card or its drivers, see if that works.
If that works then you might want to switch to an ATI Video card if you want to use that ATI analog/digital tuner card, you will see why as you read on.
Now for the long version, “the why”, for you and others that read here :)
Sometimes ATI and nVidia drivers will conflict and cause a slow down and hose your system to point of having to restore it. It will seem like it takes forever to boot or reboot your PC.
I have an ATI HDTV tuner card with an nVidia video card. If I open the HDTV tuner part it’s O.K., but if I open the analog cable TV part, the system stalls and hoses my XP Pro system where I have to do a restore point recovery. Nothing else will work at that point to recover my system to normal conditions.
Uninstalling the video card driver and reinstalling it won’t work either.
Important Note: When I do a fresh install of the OS (XP Pro), then install the HDTV ATI software, I do not install the cable TV or Analog part and only then can I can use my nVidia 6800XT with my ATI HDTV card in the same PC. If I install the analog cable tuner software and click on it to open it, that is the specific point that causes my system to slow to an unusable speed and then I have to do a system restore.
You stated, “Vista gives me a message saying there is a "problem caused by nVidia graphics driver", that’s a sign that there may be an ATI / nVidia drivers conflict and the message will only point you to nVidia and all the while it’s that ATI analog driver or whole ATI driver set in conjunction with the nVidia driver.
If your case is similar as above, do a fresh install of Vista and don’t install the ATI drivers at all, I don’t think you will have to remove the ATI card from your PC and see if it solves your video card driver issues.
You also stated, “I have been working for months with a senior resolution support tech to resolve the issue. All the Dell 32 bit hardware diagnostics are normal. We have been through the bios settings numerous times. We have uninstalled and reinstalled various drivers, ad infinitum. When we uninstall the nVidia drivers and the pci bus drivers, the system goes like lightning.”
If the ATI card is in a PCI slot and you remove the pci bus drivers then the nVidia driver won’t conflict with it because the OS shouldn’t be able to see that ATI card or it’s drivers if you uninstalled it and all of the remnants. That’s probably your conflict and that’s why when the drivers can’t see each other your system will run as you stated “system goes like lightning”.
So in your case if you need the ATI PCI card then you should consider switching to an ATI video card as their drivers should and do play better together.
If that idea above didn’t work.
Then you need to try XP Pro.
Don’t install the ATI drivers and may have to pull the card from the PC.
O.K., so here is what I would do now ,
1. Back up your data,
2. Do a fresh install of XP Home or XP Pro. I would use XP Pro.
3. Don’t hook up any peripherals, just mouse, keys and monitor.
4. Install any chipset drivers or SATA drivers you need for that mobo and then
5. Install the video card driver, try 169 beta
If that corrects the issues you are experiencing with your video card driver, then that’s it, you are done.
Finish your other application installs.
If the issues start again, then at that point of the newly added software, is your conflict point.
It shouldn’t occur with XP Pro.
You can take the same install approach with your Vista fresh install and see what happens and note at what point in time the video card driver issue starts to act up. Just trying to eliminate any peripheral driver conflicts with printers or scanners.
As far as office 2007 and Dragon NaturallySpeaking, I don’t have any issues with XP Pro.
System Monitors may slow your system down, but you said it’s the video card driver that causes your trouble.
You have tried all the run of the mill troubleshooting angles with no luck that’s why I recommend this course of treatment. A doc joke :)
In many similar situations such as yours, switching to XP Pro just works.
Another idea.
This may also be a PCI bus driver/chip issue.
I have personally experienced a motherboard South Bridge chip issue with an nVidia chipset driver conflict. What this would result in is that the optical dvd/cd drives would just stop reading files as it would loose it’s connection within minutes of any use.
In my case nVidia blamed the motherboard manufacturer and mobo manufacturer blamed nVidia. As a result of this I was stuck with the mobo until I exchanged it for another model that solved that. Thousands of customers were upset. to say the least.
Other Info.
Slow performance can be caused by driver to driver conflicts (especially nVidia / ATI drivers on the same PC), OS to driver conflicts, chipset to driver conflicts, hardware issues, Spyware, a Virus, the latest Microsoft recommended Security Updates, other Updates and Hot fixes as well as others.
I remember one of Microsoft’s fixes that crippled 1,000,000’s of PC’s, yes that was Millions.
Note:
Reinstall issues like unwanted reboots in the middle of the install process and blue screens of death can be power supply issues. Not enough juice.
If the Geek Squad or any other tech. help persons you have encountered haven’t recommended switching to XP Pro or explained the ATI/nVidia driver conflict issue, as it occurs all the time, they are either inexperienced or just useless. The Geek Squad is really good at taking your money politely. $750 and did not recommend trying XP Pro or ATI / nVidia issue as a solution is appalling to me (because I know better), they should have tried those solutions near the beginning. That’s just the way it is and well known in my world of I.T.
Troubleshooting here is a hobby.
I design and build PC’s for extreme multimedia applications, specialized speed demanding applications and high end gaming as a hobby and have resolved issues for 10,000’s of people that just can’t get their issues resolved elsewhere.
The issues you are experiencing would have never occurred from one of my builds, it would have never passed my Q.C testing and therefore never been released to you in the first place, but that’s just me. :)
Screen name is “all the facts” not Silver. Silver is a grade Dell uses for post counts.
Good Luck and Post back after you have tried the ATI/nVidia fix first and then XP Pro if needed, I really want to know if this information resolved your issues.
Happy Holidays to all :)
Dr. Bill
4 Posts
0
December 18th, 2007 02:00
all the facts
2 Intern
•
983 Posts
0
December 18th, 2007 21:00
ATI and nVidia driver conflicts have been ongoing for years. They are the two major competitors in the graphics card biz and they are very aware of compatibility issues. They are not going to work together to resolve these issues. If they had, my ATI HDTV / nVidia conflict issue would have been corrected by now, but it’s not and it’s been the same for 2 years. ATI would tell you to buy an ATI video card and nVidia may say dump the ATI tuner card and try another tuner card brand. It’s all about the money, customer base growth and retention in an economic down turn is crucial to their bottom lines. I provided workarounds, 1. ATI tuner card, eliminate the analog tuner software and that’s from a fresh install, the driver cleaner may not even work. You may have to pull the card from the PCI slot. That’s probably it and you won’t have to buy XP Pro or an ATI card. Hope it’s not a mobo bridge bus chip issue as that should only occur if the 600 and the 720 use the same model mobo and chipset.
You would think Dell techs. would know better, but unfortunately that’s not always the case. So much to learn, so little time. :)
ChrisM should see this thread and pass the information up the line since Dell is eating the cost of the replacement from a 600 to a XPS 720 and you still have the same issues.
ChrisM is an excellent moderator, very consciences and results orientated as you can tell from Chris’s posts here.
The reason for such detail and elaboration regarding workarounds and solutions as others will read this and they can learn from it. (Non-Sociopathic solutions, I also minored in psychology) I found that humorous. :)
It was quit obvious to me that you were oblivious to the wily ways of I.T. profiteering. :)
I am one of the ethical players in the biz. The Geek Squad recommended a new PC. That got you an upgrade from a 600 to a 720 at no cost to you, I hope, but that’s like you telling a patient, well I can’t cure the disease you have because I’m not knowledgeable enough to do so, so I recommend you get a new body and then expose your patient to the same disease. Just a vicious circle. You see how funny that is to me but probably not to you as it cost you a $750 lesson. Ouch! You are probably not aware of the Geek Squad employees that have been caught copying personal files from customers computers, that’s ought right theft. That was in the news. I’m sure they have some good techs. but they won’t last if they don’t bring in the cash. In the future, you may want to avoid them. Seek information in tech. forums and use Google to search, in your case “ATI Tuner card and conflicts with nVidia video card” and variations of that.
As for all your business related questions, I have covered that ground many times before. Customers like you should keep asking those questions because if they don’t the big corporations will ignore them.
I picked this post to resolve your issue because you stated you have been at this for 6 months, way to long, and you provided your issue history in great detail.
I’ll stick with this until your PC issues are resolved. One of the above solutions should resolve your issues.
You won’t have to pay my exorbitant consulting fee. :)
Good Luck and post back with any specific questions.
Also, post here and let everyone know what solution resolved your issues.
“gpro” is a forum member and very good at resolving issues and providing information in great detail. Maybe gpro will have something to add if you get into trouble.
You all may want to see “Monitor fun”
http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=dim_monitor&thread.id=85766
Happy Holidays to All :)
all the facts
2 Intern
•
983 Posts
0
January 18th, 2008 01:00
I ASSUME YOU WERE ABLE TO CORRECT THE ISSUE IF YOU CAN FOLLLOW SIMPLE DIRECTIONS.
You wrote "You could be the IT equivalent of a sociopath."
WHAT ERROGENCE AND I SEE YOU HAVE A SMART A** (AS IN INTELLIGENT DONKEY) ATITUDE.
YOUR ARE OBVIOUSLY NOT A DOCTOR BUT JUST AN IMPERSONATOR OR FLAMER.
You wrote "I've already paid them in excess of $750. Now I have agreed to buy an 8800 card at my own expense, to see if that makes a difference."
The squad clipped you for $750.00 and didn't correct the issue and you think that's great service. LOL :) :)
What a customer. LOL There is one born every second. :) LOL