So far as I know, Oracle Specialists is only available to EMC folks, one of the reasons I posted this here. Thanks for your comments. You are correct on the issue of CBT and the Data Guard license requirement, annoyingly.
Thanks for reposting this - is the Oracle Specialists lists where this originally was posted public or only available to EMC people?
A couple of things I'd like to draw attention to in Bart's post
1) Regarding the maximums with Oracle Standard and Enterprise Editions, instead of using the term processor, I believe much would be gained by referencing processor sockets and cores per processor. I believe Standard is limited by # of sockets, regardless of cores per socket, whereas Enterprise is licensed by core, regardless of how many cores per socket. This further expands the suitability of Standard Edition for many workloads.
2) Starting with Oracle 11gR1, Oracle actually added another scenario when Active Data Guard licensing (and hence Oracle EE) is required. If you are using a block change tracking file on a physical standby (for example, to offload the I/O associated with RMAN backups entirely from the production system and instead do backups on the standby), you must now purchase a license for Active Data Guard Option.
"You can only enable block change tracking at a physical standby database if a license for the Oracle Active Data Guard option is enabled."
3) Bart wrote "Oracle only supports Oracle RAC on VMware for one specific version (11.2.0.2). Any other version with RAC is not recommended on VMware because of support issues. Expected to change in the future."
It's 11.2.0.2 and above - I say this because 11.2.0.3 is now out and available and IS supported by Oracle when running Oracle RAC on VMware.
Overall, a very good post and highlights many of the things I've heard Jeff say over the years.
Thanks for your feedback, I wasn't aware of the BCT issue. Good to know. Same for the RAC support - I thought Oracle made an exception for support probably because one large customer had pushed them hard for this.
Regarding the processors vs cores vs sockets issue: very true and I admit I used information in somewhat older sources where they just discussed processors.
The fact that Oracle seems to limit sockets on SE and counts cores when using EE is adding to the confusion. Still, the overall message does not change. On the contrary, if it is true that the limit is by socket then Oracle SE can drive even more workload and all the more reason for customers to consider deploying their non-mission critical stuff on a separate VMware farm which is SE (not EE) licensed.
But you probably run into some operational issues there like I said. For example you could not restore a database that uses Advanced Compression (licensed on EE) to a server that is SE licensed (any ideas on how to deal with such stuff are appreciated!)
Any feedback on how this works out with customers is also welcome. We're just starting and I really want to know if and how customers can apply this to really reduce cost.
BTW the reason that I didn't post this on EO@EMC myself is that it is a bit agressive with respect to our Oracle partnership. But then - they start to compete with us too, so why not...
Thanks Jeff for putting this up here and boldly go where I didn't dare going before :-)
You triggered me to post it on my own blog, too...
Luckily I'm just an EMC and Oracle (and VMware) customer so besides giving my Oracle sales reps heartburn I'm generally not too worried with what I say as long as I stick to facts.
First and foremost I'm an Oracle E-Business Suite DBA. Given that Oracle requires Enterprise Edition for Oracle E-Business Suite and I believe that holds true for JD Edwards and Peoplesoft, when I come to a customer they're already licensed for X processor licenses of EE. I then work to leverage those EE licenses in a VMware environment by creating a VMware "island" of 2 or more vSphere hosts and limiting all the Oracle DBs to that vCenter cluster of Oracle DB hosts. That way I've met Oracle's licensing requirements, I'm able to start consolidating Oracle workloads and avoid purchasing more Oracle licenses and I don't have to worry about the EE vs Standard Edition issues.
On my wish list is for Oracle to publically consider VM to host affinity rules in vSphere 4.1 and above a valid form of segmenting Oracle workloads from the main vSphere cluster and also to consider vSphere at least the same sort of hard partitioning as it considers OracleVM.
Regarding the Advanced Compression restore issue, couple of things
1) If you're doing that restore due to a DR type scenario, the Oracle licensing allows for a 10 days per calendar year grace period. Basically, they don't want you worrying about buying new licenses while you're in a disaster situation.
2) One thing customers who buy Advanced Compression and other EE add ons need to consider is if they're in a virtualized environment, they'll actually get even more benefit out of those licenses. In a physical environment they've licensed Advanced Compression to probably one physical host running one DB. By licensing Advanced Compression for a vSphere host and running the DB on that host (heck, with free ESXi even), they can now run multiple Oracle VMs and leverage Advanced Compression across all of them. This is one of the reasons why I see virtualization even for very small Oracle environments to make good sense.
I suspect there's probably many Oracle customers out there using features like Advanced Compression without realizing the features they're using require an additional license. For example in Advanced Compression, you need to buy that license if you're using SecureLobs with Compression or Deduplication, table level compression, or even if you use certain levels of RMAN compression. It's very easy to accidentially start using a feature requiring a license without knowing it.
Final bit of babble (sorry!), I'm a huge fan of customers virtualizing Oracle EE under VMware and licensing Advanced Compression... not only for the reasons I listed above, but as that customer's data grows, when they look at buying EMC's FAST Cache or such, they're now getting even more benefit since more data is stored in each block. Of course, as Darryl rightly pointed out in another thread, in very high transactional environments you may NOT want to do that on certain tables because of all the transactions against the table.
I was not thinking about SE not being licensed for partitioning, advanced compression and the like, but more about the functionality simply not being available in the binaries. Thus, apart from being licensed correctly or not, it will simply not work (or at least this is my expectation).
In other words, if you run a prod database with partitioning or advanced compression, then the blocks on disk are compressed. If you clone it using EMC replication manager (clones or snaps) then the copy will have compressed blocks (and/or partitioned tables).
Now if you try to mount this database clone image on a server with SE binaries, it will probably refuse because it lacks the binary code to understand these data structures.
My idea of using SE was for test/acceptance/training/staging etc. where you would use EE for the real production environment. But then cloning from prod to the other systems will probably cause some issues.
Interesting point on the use of Advanced Compression with VMware. I had not thought of that! We really need to look at the use of EE add-ons in a virtualized context, and evaluate the potential savings in terms of license costs for the add-ons themselves.
In terms of your approach of using a physically isolated Oracle ESX cluster, that is certainly the most conservative position, and forces Oracle to acknowledge that your VMs are not creating licensing havoc for you. Check here if you want to see an analysis that Sam Lucido and I performed on this issue. (Pay special attention to the section on Licensing obviously. ) There is certainly some indication from the field that Oracle is granting special dispensation to good customers for the use of host affinity on this stuff. I have said more often than I should (remember that I am an attorney), that litigation is likely on this eventually. (It has already happened in Canada.) If you simply read the Oracle license agreement, as well as the technology price list, it is clear that Oracle licensing only attaches on server sockets where the code actually runs. It is difficult to reconcile Oracle's position on this with their own licensing documents. Clearly, you should be able to provide Oracle with convincing evidence of actual usage (in the form of VMotion logs for example), and avoid any licensing surprises.
Glad to hear that you are a happy VMware customer with EBS. We love it!
jeff_browning
256 Posts
0
November 8th, 2011 05:00
So far as I know, Oracle Specialists is only available to EMC folks, one of the reasons I posted this here. Thanks for your comments. You are correct on the issue of CBT and the Data Guard license requirement, annoyingly.
jweinshe
40 Posts
0
November 8th, 2011 05:00
Thanks for reposting this - is the Oracle Specialists lists where this originally was posted public or only available to EMC people?
A couple of things I'd like to draw attention to in Bart's post
1) Regarding the maximums with Oracle Standard and Enterprise Editions, instead of using the term processor, I believe much would be gained by referencing processor sockets and cores per processor. I believe Standard is limited by # of sockets, regardless of cores per socket, whereas Enterprise is licensed by core, regardless of how many cores per socket. This further expands the suitability of Standard Edition for many workloads.
2) Starting with Oracle 11gR1, Oracle actually added another scenario when Active Data Guard licensing (and hence Oracle EE) is required. If you are using a block change tracking file on a physical standby (for example, to offload the I/O associated with RMAN backups entirely from the production system and instead do backups on the standby), you must now purchase a license for Active Data Guard Option.
From http://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/E18283_01/backup.112/e10642/rcmbckba.htm
"You can only enable block change tracking at a physical standby database if a license for the Oracle Active Data Guard option is enabled."
3) Bart wrote "Oracle only supports Oracle RAC on VMware for one specific version (11.2.0.2). Any other version with RAC is not recommended on VMware because of support issues. Expected to change in the future."
It's 11.2.0.2 and above - I say this because 11.2.0.3 is now out and available and IS supported by Oracle when running Oracle RAC on VMware.
Overall, a very good post and highlights many of the things I've heard Jeff say over the years.
BartS
46 Posts
0
November 8th, 2011 23:00
Hi Jay,
Thanks for your feedback, I wasn't aware of the BCT issue. Good to know. Same for the RAC support - I thought Oracle made an exception for support probably because one large customer had pushed them hard for this.
Regarding the processors vs cores vs sockets issue: very true and I admit I used information in somewhat older sources where they just discussed processors.
The fact that Oracle seems to limit sockets on SE and counts cores when using EE is adding to the confusion. Still, the overall message does not change. On the contrary, if it is true that the limit is by socket then Oracle SE can drive even more workload and all the more reason for customers to consider deploying their non-mission critical stuff on a separate VMware farm which is SE (not EE) licensed.
But you probably run into some operational issues there like I said. For example you could not restore a database that uses Advanced Compression (licensed on EE) to a server that is SE licensed (any ideas on how to deal with such stuff are appreciated!)
Any feedback on how this works out with customers is also welcome. We're just starting and I really want to know if and how customers can apply this to really reduce cost.
BTW the reason that I didn't post this on EO@EMC myself is that it is a bit agressive with respect to our Oracle partnership. But then - they start to compete with us too, so why not...
Thanks Jeff for putting this up here and boldly go where I didn't dare going before :-)
You triggered me to post it on my own blog, too...
Best regards,
Bart
jweinshe
40 Posts
0
November 9th, 2011 06:00
Luckily I'm just an EMC and Oracle (and VMware) customer so besides giving my Oracle sales reps heartburn I'm generally not too worried with what I say as long as I stick to facts.
First and foremost I'm an Oracle E-Business Suite DBA. Given that Oracle requires Enterprise Edition for Oracle E-Business Suite and I believe that holds true for JD Edwards and Peoplesoft, when I come to a customer they're already licensed for X processor licenses of EE. I then work to leverage those EE licenses in a VMware environment by creating a VMware "island" of 2 or more vSphere hosts and limiting all the Oracle DBs to that vCenter cluster of Oracle DB hosts. That way I've met Oracle's licensing requirements, I'm able to start consolidating Oracle workloads and avoid purchasing more Oracle licenses and I don't have to worry about the EE vs Standard Edition issues.
On my wish list is for Oracle to publically consider VM to host affinity rules in vSphere 4.1 and above a valid form of segmenting Oracle workloads from the main vSphere cluster and also to consider vSphere at least the same sort of hard partitioning as it considers OracleVM.
Regarding the Advanced Compression restore issue, couple of things
1) If you're doing that restore due to a DR type scenario, the Oracle licensing allows for a 10 days per calendar year grace period. Basically, they don't want you worrying about buying new licenses while you're in a disaster situation.
2) One thing customers who buy Advanced Compression and other EE add ons need to consider is if they're in a virtualized environment, they'll actually get even more benefit out of those licenses. In a physical environment they've licensed Advanced Compression to probably one physical host running one DB. By licensing Advanced Compression for a vSphere host and running the DB on that host (heck, with free ESXi even), they can now run multiple Oracle VMs and leverage Advanced Compression across all of them. This is one of the reasons why I see virtualization even for very small Oracle environments to make good sense.
I suspect there's probably many Oracle customers out there using features like Advanced Compression without realizing the features they're using require an additional license. For example in Advanced Compression, you need to buy that license if you're using SecureLobs with Compression or Deduplication, table level compression, or even if you use certain levels of RMAN compression. It's very easy to accidentially start using a feature requiring a license without knowing it.
Final bit of babble (sorry!), I'm a huge fan of customers virtualizing Oracle EE under VMware and licensing Advanced Compression... not only for the reasons I listed above, but as that customer's data grows, when they look at buying EMC's FAST Cache or such, they're now getting even more benefit since more data is stored in each block. Of course, as Darryl rightly pointed out in another thread, in very high transactional environments you may NOT want to do that on certain tables because of all the transactions against the table.
BartS
46 Posts
0
November 9th, 2011 09:00
Jay,
I was not thinking about SE not being licensed for partitioning, advanced compression and the like, but more about the functionality simply not being available in the binaries. Thus, apart from being licensed correctly or not, it will simply not work (or at least this is my expectation).
In other words, if you run a prod database with partitioning or advanced compression, then the blocks on disk are compressed. If you clone it using EMC replication manager (clones or snaps) then the copy will have compressed blocks (and/or partitioned tables).
Now if you try to mount this database clone image on a server with SE binaries, it will probably refuse because it lacks the binary code to understand these data structures.
My idea of using SE was for test/acceptance/training/staging etc. where you would use EE for the real production environment. But then cloning from prod to the other systems will probably cause some issues.
btw good info, thanks!
jeff_browning
256 Posts
0
November 9th, 2011 12:00
Jay:
Interesting point on the use of Advanced Compression with VMware. I had not thought of that! We really need to look at the use of EE add-ons in a virtualized context, and evaluate the potential savings in terms of license costs for the add-ons themselves.
In terms of your approach of using a physically isolated Oracle ESX cluster, that is certainly the most conservative position, and forces Oracle to acknowledge that your VMs are not creating licensing havoc for you. Check here if you want to see an analysis that Sam Lucido and I performed on this issue. (Pay special attention to the section on Licensing obviously.
) There is certainly some indication from the field that Oracle is granting special dispensation to good customers for the use of host affinity on this stuff. I have said more often than I should (remember that I am an attorney), that litigation is likely on this eventually. (It has already happened in Canada.) If you simply read the Oracle license agreement, as well as the technology price list, it is clear that Oracle licensing only attaches on server sockets where the code actually runs. It is difficult to reconcile Oracle's position on this with their own licensing documents. Clearly, you should be able to provide Oracle with convincing evidence of actual usage (in the form of VMotion logs for example), and avoid any licensing surprises.
Glad to hear that you are a happy VMware customer with EBS. We love it!
Regards,
Jeff
jweinshe
40 Posts
0
November 11th, 2011 08:00
Just curious - how did the litigation in Canada turn out?
dba_hba
63 Posts
0
December 12th, 2011 06:00
Nice to see VMware openly address this and explain their position.
http://www.vmware.com/files/pdf/techpaper/vmw-understanding-oracle-certification-supportlicensing-environments.pdf
Allan