3200MP - Keystoning, Light Path, Ceiling Mount

Clyons,

Thank you for using the Dell Community Forum.
We don't have much information on how the projector will act when connected to an HDTV device.
This may be normal behavior for the projector. To test this you need to attach the projector
to another HDTV device in the same manner and see if you have the same problem.
Also, the problem could be caused by the fact you are using a composite cable for an HDTV signal.
Try using the "M1-A signal cable for HDTV/component" that came with your projector, to go from Component on you
X-box to the M1-A signal input on the projector.
M1-A signal cable for HDTV/component.

Hi,

Thanks for the reply.  I have been using the M1-component signal cable, not composite.  Sorry that was a typo on my original post.  You guys are selling the 3200MP as capable of properly displaying HDTV signals, has'nt DELL tested it ???  I do not have access to another HDTV source, so it will be pretty hard for me to test it.  Can't you get HDTV handling verified from your technical support department ?  If it is handling this strangely, then I'm sure mine will not be the only question concerning it that you receive. 

Regarding my other questions, what about the light path issue (original question #2) ?  Like I said, it appears that the image is being displayed quite high.  Looking at the lens output, you can see that the image is displayed way up at the top of the lens - is this normal ?  I would expect the image to be displayed roughly in the middle of the lens.  I can send you a picture of what I'm talking about here if this is not clear.

What about ceiling mount options (original question #3) ? 

Also, when showing a DVD in widescreen format (again, from my xbox via component input), it almost appears that the image is being letterboxed.  Again, this is very similar to the light gray border around the image that I see with keystoning, but MUCH larger.  It appears to fill the 4:3 area with this border and the 16:9 image is shown roughly in the middle.  The source is 16:9 (via the DVD) and the 3200MP is set to 16:9.  Again, is this normal ?  Is there any way to eliminate or reduce this effect ? 

Thanks,

Chris

 

Clyons,

Can't you get HDTV handling verified from your technical support department ? If it is handling this strangely, then I'm sure mine will not be the only question concerning it that you receive.
I'm trying to get information on this from engineering, but it may take a little while.

Like I said, it appears that the image is being displayed quite high. Looking at the lens output, you can see that the image is displayed way up at the top of the lens - is this normal ?
Is the projector on a level surface?
Do you have the tilt foot or height adjustment foot out?

What about ceiling mount options (original question #3)?
The projector can be mounted on the ceiling, but I don't know if that is going to fix the
problem.

Also, when showing a DVD in widescreen format (again, from my xbox via component input), it almost appears that the image is being letterboxed. Again, this is very similar to the light gray border around the image that I see with keystoning, but MUCH larger. It appears to fill the 4:3 area with this border and the 16:9 image is shown roughly in the middle. The source is 16:9 (via the DVD) and the 3200MP is set to 16:9. Again, is this normal ? Is there any way to eliminate or reduce this effect ?
These problems may be caused by the fact that the projector is being connected to the Xbox.
Can you connect the projector directly to the TV?
Do you get any of these problems when running of S-Video like you mentioned earlier?
I'm not to familiar with the Xbox as I don't have one.
Are you connecting the projector to the back of the Xbox directly?
Or, do you have a "expansion pack" that connects to the Xbox and then the projector connects to the expansion pack?
If you have an expansion pack, what is the brand/model?

Hi,

Thanks for your quick replys.

When you say it may take alittle while, about how long are you anticipating ?  I have about 3 weeks left on my 30-days, and I'd like to get some verification on my issues before the end of that period.  If it may take you a bit longer, would it be possible to get the 30-day period extended until you can get answers ?

The projector is on a level surface (or at least a surface that can be made level) and both feet are NOT extended (if they were, that would place the image higher onto the ceiling).  Actually, I have the projector on (a fully adustable) platform that is mounted to my tripod.  The platform is approx. 32" high (about as low as I can get it on my tripod) and the distance to the wall is approx. 12'10" (the projector is zoomed to the max for the largest image).  Even at this height, I have to tilt the platform somewhat down in order to get the image on the wall (which is what is leading to my keystoning issues). Maybe you could test a setup like this and see where your image shows up - again, mine is partly on the ceiling if the projector is on a level surface at 32".  Again, if it is possible that this projector is defective, then we probably should not waste any more time trying to track down the other issues until I can get a replacement and see if the other issues go away also.  If this is what you recommend, how do I get a replacement ?  If any pics would help, let me know and I can get you pics of my setup, where the image is showing in the lens, or anything else that might help.

I am using the Microsoft High-Definition expansion pack on my Xbox.  This provides 3 female component connections to which I am connecting the 3 male component cables from the M1-Component cable on the projector.  I first started playing with the projector using an S-video input (from the Advanced Video expansion pack on my Xbox), and although I did not test it much, I do not remember seeing the problems.  I will retest the S-video, composite, and M1-VGA inputs in a manner that will attempt to duplicate the keystoning & gray border problem on wide-screen to the extent possible.  The only real issue with this is that HDTV requires the 3 component input, and since I don't have access to another HDTV source, I really can't test that option.  In addition, I do not even have another source that uses the component inputs, so I really can't check this out for non-HDTV signals coming in via the component inputs either.  I'll test what I can and let you know what I find.

In general, when showing a wide-screen image on the projector, should it show a gray-border around the image of just the image ?

Regarding ceiling mount options, I think that is the way I want to go in the future.  However, why don't we try to work through this first set of problems first and then (if they can be resolved) we can discuss the ceiling mounting options in more detail.

Thanks for your help.

Sincerely,

Chris

Hi,

A week is fine.  I think testing information on how the projector handles HDTV signals would be very useful - whatever info you find here you probably should post as a white-paper on this issue, since I'm sure you'll be getting additional requests about it.  I'll post back my findings on the other input source tests later tonight.

How about testing the setup that I have (32" height, level platform, 12'10" distance to screen, no foot extensions, & full-zoom with ANY input source) and see what another 3200MP does in that configuration ?  For me, that puts at least 10% of the image on the ceiling.  Is'nt that something you can test easily, all you really need is a 3200MP and a room ?  If that fails, then at least we can determine that a replacement is in order, and I can get started with that.  Then once I get the new device, I can see where things stand and address the other issues as necessary.  What do you think ?

Thanks,

Chris

Clyons,

The time frame I am thinking about is a week.
If you want to try and get the projector replaced, you will have to contact Dell Tech Support.
They may have some information on hand that will clear up these questions.
I'm going to get this info to Dell engineering to get feed back on how/if this is the way
the projector is suppose to operate. I will post the info I get back.

Clyons,

Ok, I got response from engineering faster then I thought it would come.
But, I started asking about this the first time you posted so it has already been a couple days.
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1) I'm noticing some oddities when using keystone correction when displaying an HDTV (480i) signal (from my xbox) (via composite input). The keystone correction works, but it leaves a light gray border around the areas of the image adjusted by the correction. This is awfully disturbing. Is this behavior normal or is there something wrong ? Is there anything that can be done to eliminate it ? Will this occur for any HDTV signals ? Note that I did not see this border when I tried an S-video input signal.

This is normal and depends on the video signal, output source, and the video format that is
being used. Whenever you have a video source or output that does not take up the full screen
the border will appear around the edges of the video output. This behavior will differ from
video source to video source. It may do this with your Xbox, but not your HDTV or your computer that you may connect the projector too. It really depends on the video signal, so trying to use S-video
instead of composite or component may help. It depends on the output source, so it may be different when using your Xbox compared to a laptop or TV. It also depends on the video format, so it may be different when playing a game or watching a letterbox or Widescreen movie.

2) This is related to (1) above. Since I'm attempting to use the 3200MP in a pseudo home-theater setting, I want to have it in the rear of the room and somewhat elevated. It appears that if I put the device any higher then table height (which is too low for my environment), the image is displayed close to the ceiling. To deal with this, I need to angle it down, which leads to key stoning and the issue I have in (1) above. Is this behavior normal, or is there just something wrong with my 3200MP ?
Regarding my other questions, what about the light path issue (original question #2) ? Like I said, it appears that the image is being displayed quite high. Looking at the lens output, you can see that the image is displayed way up at the top of the lens - is this normal ? I would expect the image to be displayed roughly in the middle of the lens. I can send you a picture of what I'm talking about here if this is not clear.

This behavior is normal as well, and is by design.
On the inside of the outer lens there is a "cut out" for lack of a better term, that makes the
picture look the way it does. It's kind of like a dome with a flat bottom line and the top line
being bowed in shape. So the bottom edge of the picture appears flat, and the top edge appears
higher then it should be. Turning the projector upside down will help this, because the flat edge
of the picture will then be at the top, and the bowed end at the bottom.

3) Would a ceiling mount help me out ? If the light path is really aimed up when the 3200MP is used normally, then I'm assuming that ceiling mounting it would aim the image down (which is where I want it) since the device would be mounted up-side down. Hopefully, this would eliminate key stoning issues since the image should be closer to where I need it to be. What are the mounting options for the ceiling mount and how can cabling be handled ? Any help would be appreciated.
I don’t have any pictures for that. It would help.

Engineering stated that this option would help for the reasons I explained above.
You can find some ceiling mounts here.
You can also purchase one from Dell Spare Parts.
Dell Spare Parts Phone# 800-372-3355 Ext:6-9937
Part#.........Description:
7W641.........Kit, Bracket, Ceiling, Front Projection Display, 3200MP

4) Also, when showing a DVD in widescreen format (again, from my xbox via component input), it almost appears that the image is being letterboxed. Again, this is very similar to the light gray border around the image that I see with key stoning, but MUCH larger. It appears to fill the 4:3 area with this border and the 16:9 image is shown roughly in the middle. The source is 16:9 (via the DVD) and the 3200MP is set to 16:9. Again, is this normal ? Is there any way to eliminate or reduce this effect ? In general, when showing a wide-screen image on the projector, should it show a gray-border around the image of just the image ?

Engineering stated this is normal behavior as well, for the reasons I explained under the first question. It all depends on the video signal, the output source, and the video format.
So, it may do this while connected to your Xbox, but it may not do this if connected to another device like a TV or Laptop computer.
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Hi,

Well, thanks for the info (I think).  I'm still a little uneasy on the answers, since everything is pointing towards having to live with what the projector is currently doing - which is a little disheartening.  But, overall, I'm fairly satisfied with the picture quality on everything except composite input and most of the other aspects of the projector (i.e. size, weight, noise, etc.) seem to be very good.

I'm still a bit concerned about the light path issue.  Even though engineering states this is normal, could I ask that you (or anyone else with an 3200MP who is in the forum and reading this thread) verify my setup (32" height / flat platform / 12'10" to wall / max. zoom) and confirm that you get (or don't get) similar results (at least 10% of image on ceiling).  If I had this on a normal table in a conference room and wanted to project a max. image at 12', the projector would not be able to do it - this seems very odd to me.  Again, all other projectors I've used in the past would handle this fine and would require the front foot to be elevated a bit to get the image up on the wall.  If you could verify this, I'd really appreciate it.  If this is truely by design, then I think you should publish this in the projector specs, since it sets limits to what can be projected based on zoom-ratio and distance-to-screen.  Maybe this is already there and I missed it, but I don't remember seeing anything pertaining to this.

Let me look over the ceiling mount information and I'll post back if I have any questions.

Thanks for all your help.

Chris

Hey,

I bought a Dell 2200MP projector about 1.5 weeks ago.

I have noticed that the image is projected very high and is a the top of the lense. I have it at desk high. I used the REAR legs of my projector too SLIGHTLY raise it and now the projected image is at a good height with minor keystone correction. I use about -8 keystone and the image works great.

About the XBOX, I have an xbox aswell and use the HDTV AV Pack, I love the results. I used to use the normal composite cables but the image was too blurry. With the HDTV pack I hooked it up to the projector and I got amazing results.

On your XBOX did you change the VIDEO settings in the dashboard to support HDTV? I had that problem at first but than I changed the XBOX's settings and it worked.

 

 

Hey,

Well, when it is sitting right on my desk. than the image is spilling onto the ceiling. My projector is about 30 inchs above the floor.

I also have a problem with my satellite reciever since it uses only RCA composite cables the quality isn't great, but its better than dishing out a ton of cash for an expensive HDTV reciever.

I have tried a 1024i Xbox game on my projector, the quality is great. But I've noticed that the image is smaller. I was using Soul Calibor 2 for that test. I also tested Tony Hawk Undergroud and it ran at 720i and it was great. The 480p/i games also look quite good.

Overall I'm happy with it. Ive also noticed when watching 16:9 DVD'S you should leave the Projector on 4:3 for the largest possible image.

The greyish/black lines from keystone don't really bother me but I do know they are there.

Like I said, overall, I'm pretty happy with it as well.  It is just some of this weird stuff that gets me thinking whether I should keep looking or not.  Does'nt it seem strange that when the projector is at a standard table height that it can't project it's image to the wall ?  Why was it designed to not allow this at standard table heights ?  I use an NEC LT155 at work and this has never been a problem - I generally have to raise the front of the projector to get the image up on the wall regardless of distance to the wall.  I guess this may be bothering me just because it is 180deg. different then the NEC.  You have to raise the rear on the Dell and the front on the NEC.  The only difference is that it appears almost impossible to project an image without the use of keystone correction.  With the NEC I never have to use keystone correction and this affects image quality and the banding issues.  Again, thanks for your input.

Chris

Thanks for your input.  I'm guessing that the light path issues are probably the same on the 2200MP and the 3200MP.  How high do you have your projector from floor and how far to the wall you are projecting on ?  When you say the project image is high, do you mean that it spills over to the ceiling or just high on the wall ?  In my case, it spills right over to the ceiling.  I've done something similar to what you have, but since my platform is fully adjustable, I just lower the front of the projector down a bit (instead of raising the rear of the projector).  My keystone value is around -10 -- but this still means my image has a slight gray border around the bottom of it (due to the correction being applied). 

Yes, I've setup all the HDTV options on the dashboard (480, 720, & 1080 set).  I don't have any complaints on the image quality itself - it is very good.  I've not tried composite input from my Xbox, but I have from my cable box and I'm not too excited about the quality.  But I need to play with that a bit to see if I can make it more tolerable.  I did try S-video input from the Xbox, and the quality of that appears very close to what the HDTV input is providing (at least at 480 - I've not tried any games that support 720 or 1080 yet). 

Chris

Yes, that makes sense.  However, it certainly seems like a limiting factor in the design that they should have picked up early in the design process.  I would guess this limitation crept in due to the fact that they tried to make the size of the projector so small.  There are always tradeoffs to every decision you make  !

Personally, if I do decide to keep the 3200MP then I will certainly be ceiling mounting it.  Dell rates it for ceiling mounting and sells ceiling mounts specifically setup for the 3200MP.  Having to have the projector so low is a problem in my home-theater environment, since I have to move furniture around in order to allow a clear low path to the wall for the projector.  With it ceiling mounted, I would not have to do that since it would reside high up.  If this will also help eliminate the keystoning issues, then that is another benefit to ceiling mounting it.  This will also make it's installation cleaner and make it easier to cable route everything to cut down on the wire clutter that I have now.  I am also planning on running all wiring for my 5.1 sound system in the walls as well to further cut down on wire clutter. 

Thanks,

Chris

Im using it in a small bedroom. I have a loft bed with a desk under it that has the projector. What I plan on doing is making a custom wall mount for it so that I can have easier movement under the desk since the projector restricts movement because I would block the light path. But its a small price to pay considering the 2200mp is at a really low price compared to some other projectors.

I'm guessing that its because the placement of the lens is too low. Looking at my projector, nothing can be done. I built an LCD projector before getting this one. I'm willing to bet that the DLP chip is placed too high or the lense is placed too low. Again like the moderator said, nothing can really be done except to flip the projector over.

Also from building a projector, flipping the projector might have a negative effect on the bulb. I wouldn't recommend it but than again if DELL says its ok than I guess it might be. But I won't be flipping my projector upside down due to that reason.