problems with boot-- tried fixmbr, fixboot...still problems

Question

My XPS laptop was purchased in 2004 and has 2 Gig memory, with an upgraded 250 Gig Maxtor drive in it. The original 100Gig Fujitsu had gotten full, so I got a new drive, imaged the entire thing on to the new drive, and it was good to go. It has been running fine for years, and is a great machine. Then Saturday night I started up my Dell XPS/Inspiron Laptop (Model PP09L) and the regular XP OS didn't load at all. In fact, after the first BIOS screen, I got this message: Loading PBR for descriptor 2...done That was it. Nothing else. No errors beyond that. It just stayed there. Naturally, my first inclination was to go online with my desktop and contact Dell support. I logged in to check my support options and found my service agreement and support expired on Dec 16, 2007. Wonderful. :( 7 days later I am DOA on my laptop. So, I go online and look for the error and find plenty of information related to the MBR being problematic. I even found answers here talking about it. Specifically, I followed up with loading the Recovery Console and issuing the FIXMBR command on the \Device\HardDisk0 as suggested in this article (item #7) http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-10877-6031733.html When I did that, the boot up halted now, right after the first BIOS screen, and the message 'Loading PBR for descriptor 2...done' then no longer even appeared. I just got a blank screen with the single underline cursor. The disk didn't boot. Everything just hung. No boot. So, I looked at the forums again, and saw that similar symptoms occur with a problem in the boot partition, so I again looked at the article on techrepublic (and a couple I saw on these forums) and I tried the 'Fixboot C:' command, hoping it would clear things up. Well, then when I booted up I got the message: 'NTLDR is missing' I am very concerned that I have went down a path that is simply causing more and more problems. I was able to pull the drive out after the first error and image the drive (by attaching it to another computer as a separate device and using Acronis trueimage to copy it to a USB storage drive). In my final state I was worried that there might be some serious disk problems with the actual physical drive, so I rebooted one last time to the recovery console and tried 'chkdsk c: /r/f/p'. It looked like the operation ran, but it seemed to be running against a very small partition or drive. (said 10344 kilobytes total disk space). The check disk said it ran into problems that couldn't be recovered, but from what it reported (only 10meg or something located) that didn't seem right, so I am lost as to what it actually checked). This is a 240Gig drive. So somehow the chkdsk seems to be seeing maybe not all the drive. I noted when I looked at the drive when it was plugged into another machine that it contained 3 partitions. The first one looks like it is 141 Mb FAT /Healthy (EISA) partition. The second ons is 224 GB NTFS Healthy Active. The last one is a 8.75 GB FAT32 Healthy (Unknown Partition). From what I read on other forums, this is how Dell sets up some drives, where the last partition is an image of the installed PC (initial state). Right now, I am at a loss as to what to do. I don't know much about this stuff, and what I know is just stuff I have read without an expert actually understanding my situation and responding to it. PLEASE PLEASE.. I need some help. I install a lot of software and really don't want to have to rebuild the box. There are diagnostic tools that are built into the BIOS that I ran against the drive, and they didn't report any problems.

ellomei · Answer

:smileysad: :smileysad: This error message means that the computer cannot find a certain partition on the hard drive. Hard drives often have multiple sections or partitions. Dell computers have three or more partitions including: A hidden Dell utility partition, the main operating system partition, and a hidden Dell restore partition. > First possible resolution: Changing the USB Controller Setting to No Boot in the Computer BIOS. Restart the computer. Turn computer off and turn it back on again. During the startup process, press to open the 'System Setup' (BIOS) screen. Press the down arrow key until 'Onboard Devices', and then press . When the 'Onboard Devices' menu appears, press the down arrow key until the 'USB Controller' is selected. When the USB Controller menu appears, press the right arrow key to highlight 'No Boot', and then press . The No Boot option is selected. Press esc . Press the right arrow key repeatedly to highlight Save/Exit, and then press . The settings are saved to the BIOS, and the computer restarts. > Second possible resolution: Disconnect All USB Devices, and Start the Computer > Third possible resolution: Restore your operating system. NOW CONSIDERING THAT YOU HAVE NOW AN NTLDR IS MISSING AND THAT HDD DIAGS HAVE PASSED, YOU MIGHT TRY THE NEXT OPTION. 1. Start your computer with a Windows XP CD-ROM. 2. At the Setup screen, press R for repair. 3. Opt to use the Recovery Console (press c). 4. Type 1, and then press Enter (if you have more than one windows install then choose the number of the install you want to repair). 5. Type your Administrator password, (the one that you setup when you were installing the OS) and then press ENTER. If you do not know what it is try leaving it blank. If that does not work, find out what it is from the person that did the install. 6. Type map, and press Enter. This should tell you the drive letters assigned to the drives and what type of drives they are. this is very useful if you have multiple drives. This is for reference only. 7. Type: copy 'drive':\i386
tldr c:\ ('drive' will be the drive letter that corresponds to the CD-Rom Drive your XP CD is in. Refer to step 6.) Press Enter. 8. TYPE EXIT AND THE SYS WILL REBOOT. HOPE THIS HELPS YOU..... Message Edited by ellomei on 12-26-2007 06:58 AM

Corvin · Answer

The BIOS screen says it is 137GB

Corvin · Answer

Here is the thing-- you say 'This error message means that the computer cannot find a certain partition on the hard drive. ' .. that is what I was thinking too... I believe that all the files are actually in the right place, but if my computer is not seeing the partition right, and I have 'fixed' the wrong partition, then putting the ntldr file on the wrong partition wouldn't seem to be the right thing to do... I will try the ntldr thing, but this is what I am worried about things looking like:   Partition 1 - [Dell hidden utility partition] Partition 2 - [user system - should be labeled as C:] Partition 3 - [hidden Dell restore partition]   Again, the drive itself seems in good health. But right now it seems that my drive is not properly recognizing the partition 2 as the C drive. I am worried that the other commands I issued might have made Partition 1 or 3 the C drive.    So... Now, when I am in the recovery console I type MAP and I get the following--   C:  FAT16  131072MB  \Device\Harddosk0\Partition1 D:                   \Device\CdRom0   This concerns me, since I figured I would see C as an NTFS drive. Also what is labeled as ' Partition1' on the map, is that actually the second partition (I don't know if partitions are 0 or 1 based).   Thanks for any help!!!  I am standing by my computer :)..

ejn63 · Answer

What size drive does the BIOS report (F2 at boot)?

Corvin · Answer

I tried the 'copy d:\i386
tldr c:\' suggestion and it didn't change anything. I still get 'NTLDR is missing'.  I am guessing the partition thing is still at issue.

Corvin · Answer

Also, I did try to reset the BIOS thing to ignore USB bootup devices, but my BIOS does not show that kind of screen that allows an option for 'Onboard Devices' and USB things.  The first screen of my BIOS is only editable on the TIME values. There are several pages to the BIOS tool, and some show USB enablement but none have what is described in the post. Since I have no USB devices attached, I am assuming I am likely ok on that.

ejn63 · Answer

There is your problem - you MAY be able to get it to work by loading Windows onto the drive when it's installed in the system - as long as you use a disc with SP1 minimum on it, but you're never going to be able to clone the drive - the BIOS doesn't have support for a drive that large.

You can clone a drive up to 120G maximum and it should work fine. As above, you can use a larger drive - BUT - NEVER, EVER use a CD/floppy booted utility on it - you MUST then run the OS as installed onto the drive. You'll end up in the same mess if you try to run a utility booted from a different OS, because you'll hit the same BIOS limitation you see now.

Corvin · Answer

ok, i think i get it... thanks for the help.   Not to be a pest, but if I took the drive out and attached it as a readable drive to another computer (where it wasn't the boot disk), I can see it and all its partitions and data... in that state, is there tools I can apply to it to fix the partitions to make it bootable and good when I reinsert it to my laptop?   Thanks

Corvin · Answer

Hold on!  I just realized that I was using the WindowXP install disk for my older machine, not for this machine.  I just tried the Windows XP install CD (with service pack 2) and now the map of the drives is showing the whole thing... as in:   So... Now, when I am in the recovery console I type MAP and I get the following--   C:  FAT16  238476MB  \Device\Harddosk0\Partition1 D:                   \Device\CdRom0   Does this help? Can I now do something that will help?  Oh please.. let it be so... should i try to reissue any the former commands fixboot fixmbr or such..

ejn63 · Answer

Unfortunately, what you're seeing is the unpredictable nature of running a drive the system doesn't support. Any number of things may have happened - if you tried a defragmenter, or another disc utility that needs the BIOS, you may have corrupted the drive. And you may be able to get the drive running again by cloning it from the original exactly the way you did before - but the inherent problem is that the result won't be reliable - it doesn't take much to push the drive into oblivion, since it's running in what amounts to a meta-stable state.

The BIOS supports a max of a 120G drive - that cannot be changed. I would strongly suggest you replace the drive with a 120, and use the large drive externally for storage. Doing otherwise is playing with fire.

ejn63 · Answer

You can try reading the data, but the chances you'll be able to restore the drive to bootable condition are close to zero.

Corvin · Answer

in the words of that famous programmer, Jim Carey, 'so you're saying there's a chance'....   dang it...   on a sad next question-- do the newer laptop BIOSes support bigger drives?

ejn63 · Answer

In general, support for large drives in notebooks arrived with Serial ATA (SATA) technology. Very few systems with PATA (EIDE) drives have support for large drives.

Corvin · Answer

ok, so the BIOS doesn't support the drive that large.  I am a little confused since the drive ran fine for months.  I also was able to clone the disk using Acronis Trueimage, when the disk was attached to another computer and it made a copy of the entire drive, all partitions (after the first failed state, as I mentioned in the original post).   but anyways, how are you suggesting I might be able to get this working at the present?

ejn63 · Answer

If there's data on the drive, back it up first - you can easily wind up with a scrambled mess if you try it. It's worth a try - but only if you have nothing on the drive to lose.

Storage, Drives & Media

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