EDIT: as so often happens, i see that my buddy Joe53 was composing a response at the same time i was, and beat me to the post by two minutes :emotion-5: I am leaving my post here, intact, and hope that joe will do the same...
--------------------------
Jeff,
I think most of us... myself included... have been "blindly" installing (and updating) java --- for YEARS now.
Let's start with the bad... by virtue of its extreme popularity (along with other programs like Internet Explorer, Adobe Reader, and Adobe Flash), Java has been the continual target of virus/malware writers, whose goal it is to infect as many machines as possible. How exceedingly convenient it is to infect many machines, when they all contain a common vulnerability!
Being more specific, a few years ago, Java 1.4.2 was blamed as being the likely "entry point" through which Vundo infections were being spread. Ever since then, Sun Microsystems (which just recently was purchased by Oracle) has been releasing version after new version of Java, doing its best to keep it up to date and secure... but inevitably finding that someone (perhaps via "reverse engineering" of the program's code) could hack their way in, disclosing yet another vulnerability.
Since the latest MAJOR version, Java 6, was released, Secunia, a company that discloses vulnerabilities to the public, has issued a total of 17 advisories --- covering a total of 142 vulnerabilities in Java 6 !!! (6 advisories in 2007, 5 in 2008, 4 in 2009, and 2 so far in 2010).
so, for those of us who wish to keep java around, we must make every effort to keep it as up to date as possible, never settling for an old version.
-----------
now, to the more significant question: just how important is it for us to have java installed in the first place?
well, most of us were under the belief that java was indispensable for the proper viewing of many animated webpages. i strongly believe the computer experience should be enjoyable, and figured it was reasonable to keep java around, to enjoy the best of the net.
after the most recent java updates, both joe53 and I decided to do some experimenting, to see if our actual experiences confirmed the popular belief.
i spent a few days surfing, using a restricted version of IE (no add-ons), so java was disabled. so far, i came across only one webpage (among my favorites) that makes essential use of java: the secunia ONLINE scanner
Joe53, as of the last I heard from him, also found no (other) web pages that he used that require Java.
I must make two points/comments here:
1) quite obviously, web-surfing can vary greatly from person to person. so it's entirely possible that you --- or others --- may in fact be visiting some (many?) web pages that actually do make essential use of java. So I can't simply advise "all" people to get rid of it. On the other hand, if you do decide to test things out by uninstalling java, it's easy enough to reinstall, at any time in the future, should/if/when you encounter a page that needs it --- the page will advise you that you don't have java, and tell you that you need to install it.
2) we typically think of Java as being an online/webpage enhancement. but that's not completely accurate: there's a program called OpenOffice, written in large part by Sun Microsystems, that makes significant use of Java. Specifically, its (data)Base module, and its "wizards", won't run without java. so anyone using these MUST keep java around.
If someone has a few minutes would you give me a quick explanation on why Java is bad/should not be used? I thought it was required for some programs........
Jeff:
Sun's Java Runtime Environment (JRE) is a 3rd party (non-Microsoft) program that enables some web content to be displayed from certain websites in your browser. It is not a bad program per se, but like many 3rd party programs, has vulnerabilities that can be exploited by hackers to compromise your PC, and in the worst case scenario, allow your PC to be be taken over by hackers.
Usually these vulnerabilities are quickly "patched" by updates to new versions by the vendor, but until they are, your PC is vulnerable. We just went through a period where no patch for a vulnerability in JRE was available for many days, leaving the most used browsers (IE, Firefox, and Opera) open to exploits, for those that had Java installed.
This latest vulnerability in Java has now been patched. But it raised the question "How important is it that I use Java?"
After going about a week without JRE, I find I do not need it at all. Some websites require it, such as Secunia's Online Software Inspector, but the vast majority that I use on a daily basis do not. (I am not a gamer, and don't use social networks, and can't answer about their needs for Java).
My understanding is that that the free "Open Office" software also requires Java.
I have decided that, in my circumstances, having Java installed is not worth the risk. YMMV.
I want to thank both you And joe53! I believe that I have a better handle on things now. As I said I am new to this (after 10-12 years away) and am in your debt. I am constantly amazed by the information available here pretty much for the asking. I know that your time is valuable and thank you for sharing some of it with me. I hope to be able to return the favor someday. I have only had this system for about a month and so far so good.
I am now running McAfee, SuperAnti Spyware Pro, WinPatrol and PSI. I am still thinking I should get rid of McAfee for Avast! Suggestions??
Jeff wrote: "I am now running McAfee, SuperAnti Spyware Pro, WinPatrol and PSI. I am still thinking I should get rid of McAfee for Avast! Suggestions??"
i did not reply there, because you were getting some great advice.
like Joe, i don't feel comfortable telling someone to give up a legitimate paid program (emphasis on "legitimate" --- if someone inadvertantly purchased a "rogue" program, i would tell them to dump it immediately, in spite of any financial loss they might feel/incur). McAfee is a reputable program. so i would concur with Joe's suggestion --- as echoed by iroc9555 --- that you enjoy your investment in McAfee for the remaining 15 months. and then, when it comes time for renewal, you can consider one of the free alternatives.
by the way, be sure that McAfee won't AUTOMATICALLY renew your subscription. believe it or not, it's often the case that, as part of the original subscription agreement, they include a clause about automatic renewal, to keep you safe in the future. if you used a credit-card to pay for the subscription, be very careful... lest you find out they renew it without any further notice!
in 15 months, you can ask the question about what we'd recommend THEN. as of today, like Joe, I believe there are 3 excellent free anti-virus programs: avast, avira's antivir, and Microsoft's Security Essentials. each has its pros and cons. so, even though I personally am using avast, doesn't mean it's the solution for everyone.
I suggest you take the time to read though its 4 pages... it contains some great advice.... which i concur with and heartily endorse.
the programs you're currently running are a reasonable start. as for an immediate improvement, i would second two simple suggestions that Joe offered you in the other thread: set up OpenDNS, and download/install WOT (for IE and/or FireFox).
As for anything more, give youself some time to get acclimated with the current state of things. If you try to do too much all at once, and something backfires, it'll be harder to find the culprit. but if you proceed slowing... try/add things one step at a time... and then run into some trouble, you can (hopefully) assume the last thing you added was the problem.
having had the opportunity to read joe's post (after correcting a few typos in mine), i do want to say a few more words about one point he brought up: GAMING.
like Joe, I am not a "gamer". since java can impact some animated online presentations, i certainly could imagine that someone's online gaming experience may require java. and if so, for that person, java will be necesary... unless they choose to stop playing that game. hopefully, some gamer may get back to this thread, with their personal experience/comments.
now, to compound things a bit more... it's entirely possible that even gamers may find they don't need java. because beside java, there are at least 3 other online animation programs: Microsoft's Silverlight, Adobe's Flash, and Adobe's Shockwave(/Director).
of these 3, Flash is by far the most commonly used (at least, in my experience). while i don't play myself, I can attest to the fact that most games on FaceBook make essential use of Flash. And MANY webpages that i visit invoke flash. So, even though Flash is a high-probability target of vulnerabilities, I have chosen to keep it around --- as updated as possible --- to fully enjoy the web experience.
in contrast, I have just removed Shockwave/director from my systems, as I have no idea if i've EVER used it. as with java, should i ever encounter a site that requires shockwave, i can always reinstall it at that point.
Silverlight --- the newest entry into the animation arena ---has been described as Microsoft's own "version" of Flash. (Why should they use flash, if they can write a comparable program of their own?) it's typically used only at Microsoft websites. when you visit these, it makes the experience "alive". so it's somewhere "in between" in its usefulness... i have it... i think i'll keep it (at least in the foreseeable future)... but might be able to get along, for the most part, without it.
I removed Java from my PC for now. I removed the Java via the control panel (add-remove) and from the (document/setting folder under (C:). After the Error 20599 situation, I have to repair my KAV 2010. Also, I was not able to used Firefox/EI8 and no Internet connection. Finally, I have to do a system restore to get back to normal. Also, Secunia is also clear for now. By the way, JavaRa did not work on my PC, maybe I used it incorrectly or maybe because (it did not state that JavaRa would be compatible with W7).
I am using Win 8 IE10. Java installed is 7u15. But i checked on IE10 Internet Options - manage adds-on, i found these problems : Deployment Toolkit, isInstalled Class and Sun Java Console are still listed in the adds-on list, even after I uninstalled and installed the latest J7u15. So, I disabled them.
I believe one of these or all of them have caused my IE10 unable to display/run some Java contents/apps/programs on some secured websites, even though i disabled them under the "manage adds-on".
Can you help advise how to remove, first of all, the (Oracle) Deployment Toolkit from my system? As this should be the remainder of old Java component which can't be removed by the add/remove program in Windows. And causing the problem above, "crashed" with the latest Java 7 u15 installed in my system.
Subsequestly, what are these isInstalled Class and Sun Java Console adds-on in my system? Are they risky or creating problem? Can or should I remove them as well? And how to do that?
For the isInstalled Class, I checked its details/more info, it reads...i approved it to run it on website : "facebook.com", and is a file name as wsdetect.dll.
As for the Sun Java Console, I checked its details/more info, it says...a Browser Exention type, showing no file no folder for it though.
ky331
3 Apprentice
•
15.6K Posts
0
April 17th, 2010 17:00
EDIT: as so often happens, i see that my buddy Joe53 was composing a response at the same time i was, and beat me to the post by two minutes :emotion-5: I am leaving my post here, intact, and hope that joe will do the same...
--------------------------
Jeff,
I think most of us... myself included... have been "blindly" installing (and updating) java --- for YEARS now.
Let's start with the bad... by virtue of its extreme popularity (along with other programs like Internet Explorer, Adobe Reader, and Adobe Flash), Java has been the continual target of virus/malware writers, whose goal it is to infect as many machines as possible. How exceedingly convenient it is to infect many machines, when they all contain a common vulnerability!
Being more specific, a few years ago, Java 1.4.2 was blamed as being the likely "entry point" through which Vundo infections were being spread. Ever since then, Sun Microsystems (which just recently was purchased by Oracle) has been releasing version after new version of Java, doing its best to keep it up to date and secure... but inevitably finding that someone (perhaps via "reverse engineering" of the program's code) could hack their way in, disclosing yet another vulnerability.
Since the latest MAJOR version, Java 6, was released, Secunia, a company that discloses vulnerabilities to the public, has issued a total of 17 advisories --- covering a total of 142 vulnerabilities in Java 6 !!! (6 advisories in 2007, 5 in 2008, 4 in 2009, and 2 so far in 2010).
so, for those of us who wish to keep java around, we must make every effort to keep it as up to date as possible, never settling for an old version.
-----------
now, to the more significant question: just how important is it for us to have java installed in the first place?
well, most of us were under the belief that java was indispensable for the proper viewing of many animated webpages. i strongly believe the computer experience should be enjoyable, and figured it was reasonable to keep java around, to enjoy the best of the net.
after the most recent java updates, both joe53 and I decided to do some experimenting, to see if our actual experiences confirmed the popular belief.
i spent a few days surfing, using a restricted version of IE (no add-ons), so java was disabled. so far, i came across only one webpage (among my favorites) that makes essential use of java: the secunia ONLINE scanner
http://secunia.com/vulnerability_scanning/online
Joe53, as of the last I heard from him, also found no (other) web pages that he used that require Java.
I must make two points/comments here:
1) quite obviously, web-surfing can vary greatly from person to person. so it's entirely possible that you --- or others --- may in fact be visiting some (many?) web pages that actually do make essential use of java. So I can't simply advise "all" people to get rid of it. On the other hand, if you do decide to test things out by uninstalling java, it's easy enough to reinstall, at any time in the future, should/if/when you encounter a page that needs it --- the page will advise you that you don't have java, and tell you that you need to install it.
2) we typically think of Java as being an online/webpage enhancement. but that's not completely accurate: there's a program called OpenOffice, written in large part by Sun Microsystems, that makes significant use of Java. Specifically, its (data)Base module, and its "wizards", won't run without java. so anyone using these MUST keep java around.
joe53
2 Intern
•
5.8K Posts
0
April 17th, 2010 17:00
Jeff:
Sun's Java Runtime Environment (JRE) is a 3rd party (non-Microsoft) program that enables some web content to be displayed from certain websites in your browser. It is not a bad program per se, but like many 3rd party programs, has vulnerabilities that can be exploited by hackers to compromise your PC, and in the worst case scenario, allow your PC to be be taken over by hackers.
Usually these vulnerabilities are quickly "patched" by updates to new versions by the vendor, but until they are, your PC is vulnerable. We just went through a period where no patch for a vulnerability in JRE was available for many days, leaving the most used browsers (IE, Firefox, and Opera) open to exploits, for those that had Java installed.
This latest vulnerability in Java has now been patched. But it raised the question "How important is it that I use Java?"
After going about a week without JRE, I find I do not need it at all. Some websites require it, such as Secunia's Online Software Inspector, but the vast majority that I use on a daily basis do not. (I am not a gamer, and don't use social networks, and can't answer about their needs for Java).
My understanding is that that the free "Open Office" software also requires Java.
I have decided that, in my circumstances, having Java installed is not worth the risk. YMMV.
Jeff Hoffman
2 Intern
•
881 Posts
0
April 17th, 2010 18:00
I want to thank both you And joe53! I believe that I have a better handle on things now. As I said I am new to this (after 10-12 years away) and am in your debt. I am constantly amazed by the information available here pretty much for the asking. I know that your time is valuable and thank you for sharing some of it with me. I hope to be able to return the favor someday. I have only had this system for about a month and so far so good.
I am now running McAfee, SuperAnti Spyware Pro, WinPatrol and PSI. I am still thinking I should get rid of McAfee for Avast! Suggestions??
Many, many Thanks.
Jeff
ky331
3 Apprentice
•
15.6K Posts
0
April 17th, 2010 18:00
Jeff wrote: "I am now running McAfee, SuperAnti Spyware Pro, WinPatrol and PSI. I am still thinking I should get rid of McAfee for Avast! Suggestions??"
i am aware of your other thread http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/virus-spyware/f/3522/t/19330558.aspx
i did not reply there, because you were getting some great advice.
like Joe, i don't feel comfortable telling someone to give up a legitimate paid program (emphasis on "legitimate" --- if someone inadvertantly purchased a "rogue" program, i would tell them to dump it immediately, in spite of any financial loss they might feel/incur). McAfee is a reputable program. so i would concur with Joe's suggestion --- as echoed by iroc9555 --- that you enjoy your investment in McAfee for the remaining 15 months. and then, when it comes time for renewal, you can consider one of the free alternatives.
by the way, be sure that McAfee won't AUTOMATICALLY renew your subscription. believe it or not, it's often the case that, as part of the original subscription agreement, they include a clause about automatic renewal, to keep you safe in the future. if you used a credit-card to pay for the subscription, be very careful... lest you find out they renew it without any further notice!
in 15 months, you can ask the question about what we'd recommend THEN. as of today, like Joe, I believe there are 3 excellent free anti-virus programs: avast, avira's antivir, and Microsoft's Security Essentials. each has its pros and cons. so, even though I personally am using avast, doesn't mean it's the solution for everyone.
toward the bottom of each of Joe's posts, he includes a link to his own "(Mostly) Free Security Software - A Primer" http://naut.homestead.com/files/Free/free1.html
I suggest you take the time to read though its 4 pages... it contains some great advice.... which i concur with and heartily endorse.
the programs you're currently running are a reasonable start. as for an immediate improvement, i would second two simple suggestions that Joe offered you in the other thread: set up OpenDNS, and download/install WOT (for IE and/or FireFox).
As for anything more, give youself some time to get acclimated with the current state of things. If you try to do too much all at once, and something backfires, it'll be harder to find the culprit. but if you proceed slowing... try/add things one step at a time... and then run into some trouble, you can (hopefully) assume the last thing you added was the problem.
ky331
3 Apprentice
•
15.6K Posts
0
April 17th, 2010 18:00
having had the opportunity to read joe's post (after correcting a few typos in mine), i do want to say a few more words about one point he brought up: GAMING.
like Joe, I am not a "gamer". since java can impact some animated online presentations, i certainly could imagine that someone's online gaming experience may require java. and if so, for that person, java will be necesary... unless they choose to stop playing that game. hopefully, some gamer may get back to this thread, with their personal experience/comments.
now, to compound things a bit more... it's entirely possible that even gamers may find they don't need java. because beside java, there are at least 3 other online animation programs: Microsoft's Silverlight, Adobe's Flash, and Adobe's Shockwave(/Director).
of these 3, Flash is by far the most commonly used (at least, in my experience). while i don't play myself, I can attest to the fact that most games on FaceBook make essential use of Flash. And MANY webpages that i visit invoke flash. So, even though Flash is a high-probability target of vulnerabilities, I have chosen to keep it around --- as updated as possible --- to fully enjoy the web experience.
in contrast, I have just removed Shockwave/director from my systems, as I have no idea if i've EVER used it. as with java, should i ever encounter a site that requires shockwave, i can always reinstall it at that point.
Silverlight --- the newest entry into the animation arena --- has been described as Microsoft's own "version" of Flash. (Why should they use flash, if they can write a comparable program of their own?) it's typically used only at Microsoft websites. when you visit these, it makes the experience "alive". so it's somewhere "in between" in its usefulness... i have it... i think i'll keep it (at least in the foreseeable future)... but might be able to get along, for the most part, without it.
control_tps
94 Posts
0
April 17th, 2010 22:00
Hello,
I removed Java from my PC for now. I removed the Java via the control panel (add-remove) and from the (document/setting folder under (C:). After the Error 20599 situation, I have to repair my KAV 2010. Also, I was not able to used Firefox/EI8 and no Internet connection. Finally, I have to do a system restore to get back to normal. Also, Secunia is also clear for now. By the way, JavaRa did not work on my PC, maybe I used it incorrectly or maybe because (it did not state that JavaRa would be compatible with W7).
Thanks everybody for all your help.
AndyGreen
1 Rookie
•
8 Posts
0
February 24th, 2013 23:00
Hi RD,
I am using Win 8 IE10. Java installed is 7u15. But i checked on IE10 Internet Options - manage adds-on, i found these problems : Deployment Toolkit, isInstalled Class and Sun Java Console are still listed in the adds-on list, even after I uninstalled and installed the latest J7u15. So, I disabled them.
I believe one of these or all of them have caused my IE10 unable to display/run some Java contents/apps/programs on some secured websites, even though i disabled them under the "manage adds-on".
Can you help advise how to remove, first of all, the (Oracle) Deployment Toolkit from my system? As this should be the remainder of old Java component which can't be removed by the add/remove program in Windows. And causing the problem above, "crashed" with the latest Java 7 u15 installed in my system.
Subsequestly, what are these isInstalled Class and Sun Java Console adds-on in my system? Are they risky or creating problem? Can or should I remove them as well? And how to do that?
For the isInstalled Class, I checked its details/more info, it reads...i approved it to run it on website : "facebook.com", and is a file name as wsdetect.dll.
As for the Sun Java Console, I checked its details/more info, it says...a Browser Exention type, showing no file no folder for it though.
hope so and can you please help me. thanks a lot!
andy
Bugbatter
3 Apprentice
•
20.5K Posts
0
March 12th, 2013 13:00
The original topic is outdated and will be closed. Andy, if you still need help. please start a new topic at the top of the forum. Thanks.