KIDNAPPING HJT (HijackThis) THREADS

Message Edited by msgale on 03-14-2005 03:21 PM

ChrisM,

I wouldv'e preferred to keep these matters in pm(s), and off the boards to give your post rule, but...

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I think in any instance, if msgale would like to join the fight against malware by helping us clean off customers systems, then his opinion should be fielded, but sitting back and 'picking' at others doing the work, to me, just doesn't make any sense one, and so, should basically be ignored. It's like someone who doesn't work on cars, telling a mechanic just how, and under what circumstances they should do their work. I was very pleased with your approach, and was willing to make the effort, but i'm now beginning to see that this 'problem' is going to have no end, since this seems to be about who MUST BE RIGHT ... :(

I think that many of us, over the past few months have done an excellent job, without msgales 'forced' guidance, and would like to keep it so.


msgale,

Since we're the ones working the logs and responding to the customers posting for help, and one of the A B C scenarios must be me, I have no choice but to respond...

Which threads are you actively working on to help clean customers system(s), on a user to user help forum? I don't see any. A person doesn't have to use HJT to clean a system off; i've never seen you even offer to help them locate and run any anti-virus programs (even one of your choice) - but criticize our approaches to the problems.

Now, I must ask the question (other than your canned response of Dell TOS) - why are you here? Do you really think that this is helping us? If we say "no it isn't" then what? We would welcome another responder, but I don't believe that this is really about that, otherwise you'd make up the gap (just like the rest of us working this forum) for responder A B or C that didn't apparently come to the call on time.

Now, msgale, what if i'm right? That no one but yourself, is really interested in your opinion? What do we do then? - keep hammering at us when you feel the urge? If so, then i'd be glad to tell the extra help i'm trying to get us over here, just what to expect. This forum's already being labeled as "not a nice place to work". And youf name seems to be coming up more and more...I guess i'll just tell them that this situation has no controlling structures, and that if they post, be prepared to answer to you.

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Mike.

But all "B" says, "I can't help you but "C", "D", or "E" will help you some time in the future. At some point in the future "C", "D", or "E" comes along and does work on the problem. Howver that time can be along time, from teh original post.
* If more than 24 hours has passed, we could contact C", "D", or "E" and ask them if they need assistance with those post.

There is another classic "B" replies to "A", I am looking at you problem, I will get back to you.
* Again, if more than 24 hours has passed, we can contact B and ask if they need assistance.

Message Edited by msgale on 03-14-2005 06:17 PM

msgale,

I believe you were. If you respond here also, then i'd say you we're speaking for all of us, including yourself. But it seems you just speaking for everyone else (excluding yourself) ... :(

No, msgale, I didn't ask "why you don't become a HJT expert", but I think now i'm beginning to get a clearer much picture of the problem that all of us in this forum are facing; when you use words like "mystique" in referring to a piece of software, that says alot - you seem to be referring to the 'fact' that HJT responders feel themselves to be better than others - that I don't really understand. From what i've seen, the victims who we've helped clean their system were very appreciative and it really didn't matter than HJT existed - just that it worked and someone was there willing to take the risk to help them; which we've done very well by the way.

I believe, you misrespresented my statement so i'll sum it up again, I said - if you don't want to use HJT why don't you offer other cleanup tools? Including the ones that you yourself would personally recommend, rather than sit at a distance and 'pick' at other members who are trying to offer assistance. You use Nortons correct? Do you recommend Norton's on a regular basis, or come to the aid of those whose Norton's software stopped working? Couldn't I then say that you fail to respond, just like others have? Or does that rule only apply to those of use whose put in thousands of hours already on this forum helping out.

You do occasionaly post 'tests' for other members here, so wouldn't that mean that your capable of helping us get some of these victims fixed? Which we would welcome. Or should we start visiting other forums where someone is waiting, and post "It's just my opinion, but I think the reason no one has helped you, is they're not equiped to do so." - what would other members think of that? Now, why would I make a public statment like that? Wouldn't that 'imply' a presumtion on my part about the available skills of the posters here? Then I could say "Just ingore me if I bother you, but i'll be in and out saying stuff like that from time to time".

I don't think we're really talking about proof here. If that's the case, then what would make you qualified to 'test', or impose your system, or 'supervision' on a forum you don't really contribute any cleanup effort on? That remains my main question? Why are you here? If I start doing that on all the other forums here at Dell would I get repremanded for it?

Now, let me see if I understand this completely, your test conditions cover all hardware, all software, all scenarios and all possible 3rd-parth software conditions? Or are we still talking about a VPC running win98? Are you using one example to fuel your supposition and continue this thread, just to see who will have the last word? Where are your facts? Remember, nine times out of ten, when I offered something to your questions (posed to the entire forum) in an open thread, I believe your response was "meaningless" nine out of ten times. Now, why would you say that? What makes your opinion more qualified than mine? Remember, up until now, i've never said publically in an open forum that your advice, opinion or ideas were "meaningless" - but maybe it's time I started.

You once challeged the other responders in this forum to prove themselves - remember? Who made them an expert, and what are their credentials? Now it's time i've asked you the same - where are the customers (victims) your helping here? Let us see your work - we might learn something from it and add to our knowledge.

If you don't like what I have to say, please feel free to ignore it also, but were not talking about personality conflicts, or disgruntled opinions; we're talking about being disruptive, and imposing a ruleset in a board that you don't actively contribute to ... :( - If you did, it would be a completely different matter altogether.

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Mike

aka "Midnight Star"

msgale,

Thanks for you support of the Virus/Spyware forums; not only for me, but also for others here. I personally didn't like those rules and regulations either, that's why I also took the path I did; yet still kept in contact with Chris and Russell over the months - but that has no way influenced my opinion in any of my postlings here.

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Let's look at all the other responders (not just the very few here)...

When referring to credentials, let's look at all responders not just singling out the ones here at Dell (since we're here). Both you and I know that credentials don't always sum up to shear potential and experience in a given subject: i'll tell you why :

Credentials don't equal talent. I've known some very successful people who have extraordinary degrees, but still ask my advice on something they're not sure of. If credentials only matter, why wouldn't they first point that out in a big speech, then ask for my assistance - simple, #1 respect for someone else, #2 they don't know everything, if they did, they wouldn't ask for help.

Let's me and you, next visit all the board(s) currently working logs using HiJackThis and other tools, and see if victims are actually getting helped, if so, let's then ask them what the responders credentials might be - just curious how long that list might be (some I bet would be very, very short). So, if, in this instance, their shear ability and experience in malware removal far outweight, let's say, working on a joint venture with Nasa on navigational algorithms used by the earlier shuttle models, then we need to start telling them that they're unqualified to work, helping anyone, without our personal supervision - they just simply don't have the credentials to offer help to anyone. This is about credentials.

I've found in my short lifetime, that ability and experience on a given subject far outweight work experience, if what a person knows doesn't benefit, nor are they able to work with anyone, nothing is gained.

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Let's take the logic one step farther (credential = experience = work time) ...

If, let's say they're in their late teens, twenty or thirties, then we'd have to conclude they've not worked long enough to build up the credentials to know what they're doing when cleaning up a system? Even if they could work malware problems that you or I can't? We're talking credentials here, not talent. Could we then ask the responder about a remote hardare quirk that had a specific timing, on a specific bus, in an architecture that the victim wasn't even using (just because it might be considered a WOW! system by some); and if the responder can't (or didn't) answer (really why should they), would that imply something? That their credentials were far inferior to the asker? I (by the way I don't really have any credentials per say - but my work is not half bad - wouldn't you agree?)

What about the older person who's helping fight malware, but has no programming experience whatsoever, is their opinion "meanlingless" too? Since no credentials would really exist. Or do we just reserve credentials for those we're seeing as direct competition in a given area or field?

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Let's also take this scenario...

What if a responder learned to program on a C-64, while, i've worked on manufacturing system at both Burroughs and Unisys; could I then say that they're less of a computer person than myself? We're talking about credentials here, not about talent, drive or experience in a given subject (like fighting malware to help keep things focued).

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Now, why would you say that most of what I post is 'opinion' or meaningless? Was that meant as a joke? Or do you feel your credentials far outweight mine, and that gives you the right to somehow challenge everything that you 'feel' is not according to how you think? If what I have to say is construed as meaningless by others, why would they even ask me for help? Why not go to the one with the most credentials?

Now let's say I went to Harvard (which I didn't by the way), would those credentials give me the right to disrupt someone else, for whatever reason I deemed fit? Credentials would demand it, since they would far outweight the work actually being done.

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Now, why would you think that this is sarchasm?...

For ... Next, or Do ... While?



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Mike.

...If that were the case, wouldn't I respond to your very next post, that the fortran remark is entirely "meaningless". Which in a way it was, since no one here uses it (nor have any of the victims i've met by the way). Couldn't I then go around telling everyone how I wrote assembler code back in the 80's - but that would be meaningless since we're not using outdated cpus and no one who posts here for help requires it. But that would be credentials too.

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The reason I asked you about your credentials (in the fashion I did), is, I felt it was important for you to tell me, which you have. I can't honestly say that i'm impressed, since i'm not really impressed with anything ... :) - I hope that doesn't offend you, but i'm a man who admires ability and talent not credentials. But more importantly, don't I have a right to?

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Michael, i've enjoyed this discussion as always, but can we come to a conclusion so I can get back to work? ... :)

Mike.

ky331,

I just wanted to let everyone know in this open forum, who it was, and that the advice was given to, and it was very much appreciated.

I know that things are running 'high' at the moment, and i'm no expert by far, but may I ask you a question (which is important to me) - did I ever make you feel that your advice wasn't welcome on any threads i've worked? If I did, I must apologize; but i've always posted that help from others is always welcome.

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Mike.

Message Edited by msgale on 03-15-2005 12:39 PM

ky331,

I believe that was me who you pm-ed about removing ViewPoint manager, the other day, and I was glad you did ... :)

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Mike.

ky331,

I was fairly upset with others who posted behind you on that thread you started to help on, in which you recommended the cleanup tool you've mentioned above; the thread was completely hijacked by a few other responders. I wouldv'e follwed your advice first. I was going to step in and say something about the others posting behind you, but didn't - now I see that I should have.

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Mike.

Message Edited by ky331 on 03-15-2005 10:15 AM