It's hard to say what Microsoft was thinking (or drinking :emotion-4: ) when they created win 8. While I can certainly see the value of them offering an alternative Operating System to run just on tablets, so as to compete with Apple and Android O/S, I don't understand why they have decided to make it their mainstream next generation O/S. It's a radical change, and consumer users will have to adjust --- changing just about everything they've become used to since Win 95 [and continuing through 98, ME, 2000, XP, Vista, & 7]. Going a step further, I have serious doubts how --- and even if --- Win8 will be accepted by the business community. As we know, many consumers/businesses still continue to run XP, having concluded that Vista [as it was implemented, despite attempted gains in security] was a "mistake". Many companies bypassed Vista, and then went to Win7. I too recently purchased a Win7 system, not wanting to get stuck with Win8 if I waited any longer.
First and foremost, Win8 pushes the touch-screen concept, as has been popularized by the iPad. While "cute", and while kids may love it, I don't see Microsoft winning-away any users from Apple, nor do I really see Win8 being accepted by the business community. Secondly, the START button is missing, so people will have to learn a new way to access their programs. I also believe [and if this is incorrect, please, someone, let us know] that you can't set-up side-by-side windows, seeing two [or more] programs run simultaneously... if accurate, that's terrible for business users, who might want to easily copy/paste information between, for example, a word processor in one window and a spreadsheet in another. And then, there's WinRT, a "special" version of Windows 8 that runs under an ARM processor, meaning that it's NOT "Intel compatible" --- all the programs you already own, and are used to, will NOT run under WinRT. [But they should run under Win8 PRO, with an Intel processor.]
For what it' worth, Win8 DOES offer major improvements in security... I've read where an expert considers it the most secure version of Windows ever made! But what good is all the additional security, if no one likes/wants it???
I just hope Microsoft isn't digging its own grave...
Well, they've started to turn over the earth with this version, can the grave be far beind... :emotion-42:
Perhaps MS sees the future buyers wanting to carry everything with them...computer, email, phone...but it is a only a wild guess (won't even attempt to put a certain word after wild) that the market will really be all that impressed enough to make the switch . I use the computer in the comfort of my home, as I am sure a large percentage of other desk top users do. The other alternative is to go to the library. I simply don't wish to carry around anything other than a basic cell phone that will fit in my pocket.
Businesses have basic things they want done, like having multiple screens up or using various applications of Office or other production software. So I doubt that there will be a large and immediate crossover to W8 from the corporate world. They will probably wait as long as possible until the NEXT version comes out.
It is so simple right now to pull up the Desktop (in Classic View...we should have seen all this coming!) and use the Start button to bring up several choices, be it Search, Documents, Run, Programs, and Windows Updates among others. Then I have the various icons on the Desktop for IE, Control Panel, Recyle Bin, most of my security programs...and a few I never touch. It will interesting to see how well this goes over David...probably like a lead balloon.
I like it, but it takes some practice at first. I remember when IT at my workplace told us years ago, "Windows XP is a different animal!" People were hanging onto older OS for as long as they could in order to avoid updating to XP. Change is good. Without it there would be no butterflies. I will admit, however, that for the desktop and laptop user there are a few extra steps in 8 that are hard to get used to. It seems to be hot-key heavy, and like playing a musical instrument, if you hit the right key(s) you can play the tune. :emotion-21:
I've been testing the pre-release version Of Win 8 for a few days, after reading a few tutorials. I have no plans to get a new PC anytime soon, and hope my Win 7 systems last a long time. But sooner or later I'll probably need a new PC that undoubtedly will come with Win 8. So I thought I should check it out, while it is still free.
Although I agree with much of what has been said, I must say that one or two hours invested in learning how to use this OS paid great dividends for me. You can choose to use a desktop format, and pin your programs to the taskbar. (You still will not get a "start" button). And after investing this learning time, I can say that I am comfortable using Win 8, in both "tile" and "desktop" format. Not completely yet, but in general terms.
This is a viable OS. Why MS would foist it upon desktop users with no touch-screen capability is beyond me. But it does work, and the security advantages cannot be ignored.
This new version of Windows is a disaster. Power users can't wait to replace the UI, and businesses are avoiding it like the plague. I'm talking, of course, about Windows XP. Ah, how quickly we forget.
The article's point is not lost: people are reluctant to change... reluctant to leave their "comfort zone". Which is why I still choose to run some software programs that are over 11 years old... they're "oldies, but goodies": they still do an adequate job --- and more importantly, I know where all the buttons/functions are (without losing time having to locate where they've been moved to on the "new/improved" menus)! [That's why I kept around SpyBot for much longer than I should have... and only gave it up gradually, and with great reluctance. But that's another story...]
Maybe my memory isn't as good as I thought, but I don't recall there being quite so dramatic a change in appearance/functionality going from Windows ME to XP, as there seemingly is going from 7 to 8. From ME to XP, you still had the desktop, START button with pull-down programs-menu, and the ability to open, move, and re-size multiple windows side-by-side on the desktop. In contrast, going to Win8, the desktop is not there (at least, not by default settings), there is no START button [so other means must be used to access your programs], and unless I've been misinformed, you can't open multiple side-by-side windows for multi-tasking, and copying/pasting between them. [I concede that I am speaking based on what I've read elsewhere... I've had no "hands-on" contact with Win8.]
Sure, there WERE significant changes from ME to XP... such as replacing FAT by NTFS. "What", you ask? That's the method Windows used to allocate and store files on the disk. NTFS makes use of advanced data structures to improve performance, reliability, and disk space utilization. But the bottom line here is that this MAJOR change in structure was transparent to the user: he/she didn't even notice it [nor did he/she have to know any details about it, nor adjust/tweak it in any way].
Each "generation" of Microsoft's operating systems was pitched as being an improvement over its predecessors. And solely from a security perspective, I believe that assertion to be true. In contrast, from an acceptance/usefulness perspective, it seems that Microsoft has been alternating between good [98SE, XP, 7] and bad [ME, Vista].
Windows 3.x and 95 represent the "infancy" of the GUI-based Windows. 98 tried to improve things, and with the release of its Second Edition (98 SE), proved to be quite successful. ME, the Millennium Edition, attempted to make a major improvement in security: System Restore was introduced, and Windows had a way to replace system files that had been [accidentally] deleted or damaged. While the idea was great in principle, it's implementation was a disaster: it demanded too much of the hardware (CPU and disk drive) --- so much so, that a "rule of thumb" people used back then was to say that an ME system running at any particular CPU speed was only as efficient as a 98 system running at half that speed!! ME was especially notorious for generating "blue screens". For these reasons, people would joke that ME really stood for "Mistake Edition" :emotion-5:. Many people "downgraded" back to 98SE.
When XP was released, ME users were happy for the chance to try something else. It was the satisfied 98SE users that were reluctant to change. As the saying goes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". The biggest issue facing businesses contemplating upgrading from 98/ME to XP [and likewise, years later, from XP to Vista], was the availability of drivers for all their peripherals: many people were disappointed to discover that their printers, which had worked under the older operating system, would no longer function [properly, or even at all] under the new one :emotion-6: But as compatible drivers eventually became available, XP ultimately became Windows greatest success --- so much so, that many people (myself included) and especially businesses are still using it today, years after it was introduced, despite two [and soon three] newer operating systems having become available.
In some ways, Vista parallels ME: it attempted to make major security changes, introducing UAC (User Account Control). But it did so in a way that most users found annoying. [As a result, some users decided to turn off UAC, disabling this potentially significant security move.] Combined (at least initially) with an even greater lack of drivers for legacy peripherals, Vista had a very hard time gaining acceptance in the business community, which to a large extent opted to "ignore" it in favor of the older XP. Indeed, in order to force its sales, it became standard for PC manufacturers to offer "Vista, with an XP-downgrade license included"!
Win7 "perfected" the security enhancements that Vista attempted, and was for the most part driver-ready when it was introduced. True, many businesses took a "wait and see" attitude toward it --- after Vista's disappointments --- and held on to XP for as long as they could. But given that Microsoft will end extended support (including security updates) for XP in 2014, while Win7 will be supported until at least 2020... and given that businesses tend to upgrade their equipment every 3 to 5 years [if for no other reason, to have things under warranty], I would not be surprised to see a sudden surge to Win7 over the next few months... as businesses contemplate bypassing Win8, hoping that Microsoft will "come to its senses" in time for Win9.
Since this is becomming an extended discussion on Win8, and since I've been making many negative comments about it, for ease of reference, I want to link users here to two other threads of interest:
From the "3-Year-Old Whiz" article: "Of course, the biggest advantage this kid has is probably learning his way around effectively from scratch. Grandma would be likely to have a bit more trouble with the change not because of the new interface itself, but rather because she's used to the old one".
It's often been asserted that the optimal time for a person to learn multiple languages is when they're growing up. Kids are not set in their ways... they're open to learning new things. Quoting what I wrote above: While [Win8 may be] 'cute', and while kids may love it, I don't see Microsoft winning-away any users from Apple, nor do I really see Win8 being accepted by the business community.
Having said all this, I am actually hoping to be proven wrong: I am financially invested in much of the PC community, and need for it to succeed. I surely hope, paraphrasing Mark Twain, that "The reports of [the PC's] death are greatly exaggerated".
I've never been quick to adopt new Windows operating systems. No XP til 2005, no Win 7 til 2011. In both cases I had used the older OS for over 6 years, and only upgraded because I needed a new PC that only was offered with the latest OS at the time. This strategy has served me well over the past 15 years, and I suspect it will be a few years before I need a new PC with Win 8 (or Win 9).
Learning a new OS is always a bit painful, and I suppose I was a bit lucky to get XP rather than ME, and Win 7 rather than Vista. But each new OS was a huge improvement on the last, and more secure. I grumbled, I learned, and I eventually was glad I upgraded.
If MS provided pre-release versions of XP or Win 7 for testing, I don't recall it. This time, for Win 8, they did, and I'm grateful. When the time comes to upgrade, I'll be better prepared.
I'm not rushing to embrace Win 8, because I don't have to. Give it a year or two for MS to work out the kinks, and to let the marketplace render its decision.
"Consumer satisfaction with PCs reached an all-time high last month... Thing is, the improvement is driven in part by tablets, which consumers seem to enjoy using...
Tablets are not entirely replacing PCs. They are being used as ancillary devices to the traditional desktops and laptops to watch videos, check email and play games. They remain consumption rather than creation devices. Productivity tasks, in contrast, are still the domain of traditional PCs".
Chris Pirillo, founder of LockerGnome, hits the streets to find out how real people experience Windows 8. Watch how people react when asked to complete simple tasks on the new Windows 8 operating system.
ky331
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October 20th, 2012 09:00
It's hard to say what Microsoft was thinking (or drinking :emotion-4: ) when they created win 8. While I can certainly see the value of them offering an alternative Operating System to run just on tablets, so as to compete with Apple and Android O/S, I don't understand why they have decided to make it their mainstream next generation O/S. It's a radical change, and consumer users will have to adjust --- changing just about everything they've become used to since Win 95 [and continuing through 98, ME, 2000, XP, Vista, & 7]. Going a step further, I have serious doubts how --- and even if --- Win8 will be accepted by the business community. As we know, many consumers/businesses still continue to run XP, having concluded that Vista [as it was implemented, despite attempted gains in security] was a "mistake". Many companies bypassed Vista, and then went to Win7. I too recently purchased a Win7 system, not wanting to get stuck with Win8 if I waited any longer.
First and foremost, Win8 pushes the touch-screen concept, as has been popularized by the iPad. While "cute", and while kids may love it, I don't see Microsoft winning-away any users from Apple, nor do I really see Win8 being accepted by the business community. Secondly, the START button is missing, so people will have to learn a new way to access their programs. I also believe [and if this is incorrect, please, someone, let us know] that you can't set-up side-by-side windows, seeing two [or more] programs run simultaneously... if accurate, that's terrible for business users, who might want to easily copy/paste information between, for example, a word processor in one window and a spreadsheet in another. And then, there's WinRT, a "special" version of Windows 8 that runs under an ARM processor, meaning that it's NOT "Intel compatible" --- all the programs you already own, and are used to, will NOT run under WinRT. [But they should run under Win8 PRO, with an Intel processor.]
For what it' worth, Win8 DOES offer major improvements in security... I've read where an expert considers it the most secure version of Windows ever made! But what good is all the additional security, if no one likes/wants it???
I just hope Microsoft isn't digging its own grave...
dalem29
2 Intern
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2.2K Posts
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October 20th, 2012 10:00
Well, they've started to turn over the earth with this version, can the grave be far beind... :emotion-42:
Perhaps MS sees the future buyers wanting to carry everything with them...computer, email, phone...but it is a only a wild guess (won't even attempt to put a certain word after wild) that the market will really be all that impressed enough to make the switch . I use the computer in the comfort of my home, as I am sure a large percentage of other desk top users do. The other alternative is to go to the library. I simply don't wish to carry around anything other than a basic cell phone that will fit in my pocket.
Businesses have basic things they want done, like having multiple screens up or using various applications of Office or other production software. So I doubt that there will be a large and immediate crossover to W8 from the corporate world. They will probably wait as long as possible until the NEXT version comes out.
It is so simple right now to pull up the Desktop (in Classic View...we should have seen all this coming!) and use the Start button to bring up several choices, be it Search, Documents, Run, Programs, and Windows Updates among others. Then I have the various icons on the Desktop for IE, Control Panel, Recyle Bin, most of my security programs...and a few I never touch. It will interesting to see how well this goes over David...probably like a lead balloon.
Bugbatter
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October 20th, 2012 13:00
I like it, but it takes some practice at first. I remember when IT at my workplace told us years ago, "Windows XP is a different animal!" People were hanging onto older OS for as long as they could in order to avoid updating to XP. Change is good. Without it there would be no butterflies. I will admit, however, that for the desktop and laptop user there are a few extra steps in 8 that are hard to get used to. It seems to be hot-key heavy, and like playing a musical instrument, if you hit the right key(s) you can play the tune. :emotion-21:
joe53
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5.8K Posts
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October 20th, 2012 21:00
I've been testing the pre-release version Of Win 8 for a few days, after reading a few tutorials. I have no plans to get a new PC anytime soon, and hope my Win 7 systems last a long time. But sooner or later I'll probably need a new PC that undoubtedly will come with Win 8. So I thought I should check it out, while it is still free.
Although I agree with much of what has been said, I must say that one or two hours invested in learning how to use this OS paid great dividends for me. You can choose to use a desktop format, and pin your programs to the taskbar. (You still will not get a "start" button). And after investing this learning time, I can say that I am comfortable using Win 8, in both "tile" and "desktop" format. Not completely yet, but in general terms.
This is a viable OS. Why MS would foist it upon desktop users with no touch-screen capability is beyond me. But it does work, and the security advantages cannot be ignored.
ky331
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15.6K Posts
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October 21st, 2012 05:00
Why MS would foist it upon desktop users with no touch-screen capability is beyond me.
Presumably, NEW monitors will now [or very soon] all be touch-screen capable???
Bugbatter
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October 21st, 2012 14:00
Windows 8 is the new XP
This new version of Windows is a disaster. Power users can't wait to replace the UI, and businesses are avoiding it like the plague. I'm talking, of course, about Windows XP. Ah, how quickly we forget.
Continued:
http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-is-the-new-xp-7000006095/
ky331
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October 21st, 2012 16:00
The article's point is not lost: people are reluctant to change... reluctant to leave their "comfort zone". Which is why I still choose to run some software programs that are over 11 years old... they're "oldies, but goodies": they still do an adequate job --- and more importantly, I know where all the buttons/functions are (without losing time having to locate where they've been moved to on the "new/improved" menus)! [That's why I kept around SpyBot for much longer than I should have... and only gave it up gradually, and with great reluctance. But that's another story...]
Maybe my memory isn't as good as I thought, but I don't recall there being quite so dramatic a change in appearance/functionality going from Windows ME to XP, as there seemingly is going from 7 to 8. From ME to XP, you still had the desktop, START button with pull-down programs-menu, and the ability to open, move, and re-size multiple windows side-by-side on the desktop. In contrast, going to Win8, the desktop is not there (at least, not by default settings), there is no START button [so other means must be used to access your programs], and unless I've been misinformed, you can't open multiple side-by-side windows for multi-tasking, and copying/pasting between them. [I concede that I am speaking based on what I've read elsewhere... I've had no "hands-on" contact with Win8.]
Sure, there WERE significant changes from ME to XP... such as replacing FAT by NTFS. "What", you ask? That's the method Windows used to allocate and store files on the disk. NTFS makes use of advanced data structures to improve performance, reliability, and disk space utilization. But the bottom line here is that this MAJOR change in structure was transparent to the user: he/she didn't even notice it [nor did he/she have to know any details about it, nor adjust/tweak it in any way].
Each "generation" of Microsoft's operating systems was pitched as being an improvement over its predecessors. And solely from a security perspective, I believe that assertion to be true. In contrast, from an acceptance/usefulness perspective, it seems that Microsoft has been alternating between good [98SE, XP, 7] and bad [ME, Vista].
Windows 3.x and 95 represent the "infancy" of the GUI-based Windows. 98 tried to improve things, and with the release of its Second Edition (98 SE), proved to be quite successful. ME, the Millennium Edition, attempted to make a major improvement in security: System Restore was introduced, and Windows had a way to replace system files that had been [accidentally] deleted or damaged. While the idea was great in principle, it's implementation was a disaster: it demanded too much of the hardware (CPU and disk drive) --- so much so, that a "rule of thumb" people used back then was to say that an ME system running at any particular CPU speed was only as efficient as a 98 system running at half that speed!! ME was especially notorious for generating "blue screens". For these reasons, people would joke that ME really stood for "Mistake Edition" :emotion-5:. Many people "downgraded" back to 98SE.
When XP was released, ME users were happy for the chance to try something else. It was the satisfied 98SE users that were reluctant to change. As the saying goes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". The biggest issue facing businesses contemplating upgrading from 98/ME to XP [and likewise, years later, from XP to Vista], was the availability of drivers for all their peripherals: many people were disappointed to discover that their printers, which had worked under the older operating system, would no longer function [properly, or even at all] under the new one :emotion-6: But as compatible drivers eventually became available, XP ultimately became Windows greatest success --- so much so, that many people (myself included) and especially businesses are still using it today, years after it was introduced, despite two [and soon three] newer operating systems having become available.
In some ways, Vista parallels ME: it attempted to make major security changes, introducing UAC (User Account Control). But it did so in a way that most users found annoying. [As a result, some users decided to turn off UAC, disabling this potentially significant security move.] Combined (at least initially) with an even greater lack of drivers for legacy peripherals, Vista had a very hard time gaining acceptance in the business community, which to a large extent opted to "ignore" it in favor of the older XP. Indeed, in order to force its sales, it became standard for PC manufacturers to offer "Vista, with an XP-downgrade license included"!
Win7 "perfected" the security enhancements that Vista attempted, and was for the most part driver-ready when it was introduced. True, many businesses took a "wait and see" attitude toward it --- after Vista's disappointments --- and held on to XP for as long as they could. But given that Microsoft will end extended support (including security updates) for XP in 2014, while Win7 will be supported until at least 2020... and given that businesses tend to upgrade their equipment every 3 to 5 years [if for no other reason, to have things under warranty], I would not be surprised to see a sudden surge to Win7 over the next few months... as businesses contemplate bypassing Win8, hoping that Microsoft will "come to its senses" in time for Win9.
Bugbatter
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20.5K Posts
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October 21st, 2012 16:00
Watch This 3-Year-Old Whiz Fly Around Windows 8 Like a Boss
http://gizmodo.com/5953561/
ky331
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15.6K Posts
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October 21st, 2012 17:00
Since this is becomming an extended discussion on Win8, and since I've been making many negative comments about it, for ease of reference, I want to link users here to two other threads of interest:
Windows 8 strongly advances security: http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/virus-spyware/f/3522/t/19470487.aspx
Windows "RT": Caveat Emptor: http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/virus-spyware/f/3522/t/19471487.aspx
ky331
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October 21st, 2012 17:00
From the "3-Year-Old Whiz" article: "Of course, the biggest advantage this kid has is probably learning his way around effectively from scratch. Grandma would be likely to have a bit more trouble with the change not because of the new interface itself, but rather because she's used to the old one".
It's often been asserted that the optimal time for a person to learn multiple languages is when they're growing up. Kids are not set in their ways... they're open to learning new things. Quoting what I wrote above: While [Win8 may be] 'cute', and while kids may love it, I don't see Microsoft winning-away any users from Apple, nor do I really see Win8 being accepted by the business community.
Having said all this, I am actually hoping to be proven wrong: I am financially invested in much of the PC community, and need for it to succeed. I surely hope, paraphrasing Mark Twain, that "The reports of [the PC's] death are greatly exaggerated".
joe53
2 Intern
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5.8K Posts
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October 21st, 2012 20:00
Good discussion!
I've never been quick to adopt new Windows operating systems. No XP til 2005, no Win 7 til 2011. In both cases I had used the older OS for over 6 years, and only upgraded because I needed a new PC that only was offered with the latest OS at the time. This strategy has served me well over the past 15 years, and I suspect it will be a few years before I need a new PC with Win 8 (or Win 9).
Learning a new OS is always a bit painful, and I suppose I was a bit lucky to get XP rather than ME, and Win 7 rather than Vista. But each new OS was a huge improvement on the last, and more secure. I grumbled, I learned, and I eventually was glad I upgraded.
If MS provided pre-release versions of XP or Win 7 for testing, I don't recall it. This time, for Win 8, they did, and I'm grateful. When the time comes to upgrade, I'll be better prepared.
I'm not rushing to embrace Win 8, because I don't have to. Give it a year or two for MS to work out the kinks, and to let the marketplace render its decision.
ky331
3 Apprentice
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15.6K Posts
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October 22nd, 2012 05:00
"Consumer satisfaction with PCs reached an all-time high last month... Thing is, the improvement is driven in part by tablets, which consumers seem to enjoy using...
Tablets are not entirely replacing PCs. They are being used as ancillary devices to the traditional desktops and laptops to watch videos, check email and play games. They remain consumption rather than creation devices. Productivity tasks, in contrast, are still the domain of traditional PCs".
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/10/22/how-the-tablet-is-saving-the-pc/
ky331
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15.6K Posts
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October 22nd, 2012 15:00
A history of Windows - Highlights from the first 25 years: http://windows.microsoft.com/is-IS/windows/history
ky331
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15.6K Posts
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October 23rd, 2012 04:00
Chris Pirillo, founder of LockerGnome, hits the streets to find out how real people experience Windows 8. Watch how people react when asked to complete simple tasks on the new Windows 8 operating system.
http://techtalk.pcpitstop.com/2012/10/16/how-people-react-to-windows-8/
Comments:
1) I'm assuming this was real... but it could have been staged. So take it for what it's worth.
2) The video ends with an ad for a Start Menu ap. I know nothing about this. Anyone who chooses to pursue it, caveat emptor!
Bugbatter
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October 23rd, 2012 08:00