you've read about some 5150 users having problems and mistakenly think that you're suffering from the same issue. you're not. overall failure rates are very low -- even for the 5150 which is admittedly higher than most.
yes, you're going to see a ton of people posting about problems here -- because surprise, that's primarily what these forums are for.
chances are the board in your other computers was made by the same company as your dell board (there aren't that many places that make them). given that, next time, regardless of what you buy, buy a longer warranty.
325 is silly for a harddrive -- i'm suprised even dell would try to sell one for that much. goto zipzoomfly or newegg if you ever need a new drive in the future.
lastly, what, if anything, happens when you press the power button on your notebook?
Thanks for your email. Regardless whether there was a warranty or not - the lack of integrity of what they are selling is shameful. ANd yes, they do have control of that. They can demand better and more reliable parts from those companies with whom they deal.
I did have a warranty - it expired, OF COURSE, a bit before the problem started -- SURPRISE SURPRISE! haha Did I get a bad motherboard compared to others that are out there? Could be. Did others who have posted seem to have the same or similar problem? Seems so.
And yes, I am aware of what boards are for and how to search for those that apply to my system (if it is in the posting, of course. :) I have been fortunate, however, to have had quality notebooks - enough so, that I have never had to deal with such things - for myself or for my clients - sure little things, but not motherboards and hard drives at the same time (which I understand, the motherboard helped to fry the hard drive). No warning and no diagnostics on the system to accurately notify me of a potential problem.
"lastly, what, if anything, happens when you press the power button on your notebook?"
Well, it will boot up - and I can even get some files that I had not backed up -- Saturday was the backup day and of course, the problem started on Thursday of last week. So, it will boot up and the system will stay on for about 10 minutes or so. Gradually, the time it is staying on is less and less. Then, when it freezes and shuts itself off, I have to wait about 30 minutes or longer for it to allow me to boot up again. Of course, I took most things out of Startup since that was eating away at my limited time.
A local computer shop has it, so now that they have diagnosed the real problem (I am sure they turned it on and off many times), it may no longer boot up at all - simply because I was on borrowed time. We will see when I pick it up tomorrow.
Oh yeah - and the $325 hard drive Dell wanted to sell me -- was REFURBISHED, not even new, with the standard 90 day warranty.
Thanks for replying to the venting. I know there is nothing that Dell will do. They have no obligation to do so. Good thing is, I have a choice where I purchase my next notebook - and what I recommend to my clients. It's not the fact that there was a problem, it's all about customer service.
do you mind troubleshooting this a bit further? i assume you don't have much to lose
when you say it won't boot up when you turn it on, do you mean that nothing happens at all when you hit the power button or just that it never makes it to windows
if the "DELL" screen appears when you hit the power button, it's a good sign about the motherboard
No, no - I don't mind. If it could POSSIBLY help solve the problem, I am OPEN to discussing! :)
There are two things that occur when turning on the system. It will either:
1) Turn on and boot up just fine all the way to the Desktop and everything is functional. The functional part lasts about 10-15 minutes. Then, the cursor first starts to freeze - then does freeze, sometimes the screen dims just slightly and then brightens again. Then, it will sometimes start to work again, but at that point, I REALLY know I am on borrowed time - and usually very soon thereafter, the system shuts down. This occurs either when turned on for the first time that morning OR, if the system has off for about 20-30 minutes.
or
2) IF it is right after the system has shut itself down - and I IMMEDIATELY try to boot up again, I press the POWER button and the three little lights next to the POWER button flash for a split second like it wants to boot up, but it then immediately shuts down again. I can try that a few times, with the same result, sadly.
Sometimes when the system has the frozen cursor, I noticed if I press together various areas of entire side to the left of the keyboard, it will cause things to work again. So, I hold my left hand pressing - not too hard - say, the bottom left to the keyboard, it will start working again. That can be good, sometimes for another 10 minutes, if I am lucky. Then, it gets to a point where the pointer stays froze - and then it shuts down.
Once, when the pointer/cursor froze, I was out of the room for about an hour because I figured it would shut itself down in a moment, like all the other moments before. But, after an hour, the system was still on, but the pointer was still frozen -- and as soon as I pressed that area to the left of the keyboard, it shut the system down.
I suppose there's a tiny chance that it's a bad keyboard. can you remove the hard disc and optical drive and try to boot? also, only use a single ram module (if you have 2 -- and change the slots each time you see a no boot situation. once it happens in both slots, use the other stick if you have 2 of them).
again, when you boot we're just looking for the dell screen ... you'll likely get an error after that with no drives in. again, we're just trying to get it up and past the dell screen.
I have no doubt that the professionals to whom I took my notebook did many things to determine what the problem is. They did rule out the keyboard and were able to determine it was the motherboard and then, by way of the motherboard dying - it impacted the hard drive.
they are guessing more than likely (and definitely guessing as to why the hard drive died). if you want to test things yourself, I'm more than willing to help if I can. if you want to call it a day and accept it as dead, that's perfectly within your rights.
I had run the diagnostics provided by Dell and it showed that the keyboard and everything EXCEPT the hard drive was OK.
When I took it to the computer shop, they took out the hard drive and used a good hard drive and the mother board did not respond -- and there was grinding noises.
They put back my hard drive and I got the laptop back today. UNFORTUNATELY, the hard drive cannot even be recognized now - it will not boot up at all. When I boot up, I will see the Dell screen and then I get a Boot Failure message and it says Press F1 to continue to Windows or press F2 (I think it was F2) to go to the System Setup area. If I press F1, it repeatedly shows the same message. If I press F2, it goes to the Dell System Setup.
Thank you again for your willingness to help.
Francine
Message Edited by FrancineSF on 11-15-2005 10:19 PM
try booting to the diagnostics CD again with the hard drive out ... or just booting up in general. you will get the a disk not found message -- the thing I want to test is whether the machine will complete its PowerOnSelfTest(POST) with the drive out. If it gets past the Dell screen, then the POST completed successfully.
the tech who examined your computer may have been correct. that said, the second drive he used might have been bad, it might not have ben seated properly, a blade adapter that connects the drive to the system may not have been installed (I'm actually not sure if the 8500 uses one of these adapters or not).
If it POSTs at this point, that will at least narrow the possible issues down.
HOPEFULLY, it will POST without the harddrive and with the CD drive. That will allow you to boot to the diagnostic CD and run the tests again. See if you can note what is being tested when the error codes are generated (if they are generated).
If you need clarification on any of these steps, just post back
I have not personally removed the hard drive, myself.
I did insert one of the Dell Diagnostic CD's and was able to run some of the tests (before it intermittently turned itself off again) and it did come up with the following error. I was not able to run all of the tests because the system shut itself down again.
error code: 4500:0119
Msg - port is operating outside of allowable speed tolerances. Port base address 3F8h is transmitting 0cps, again an expected 3840 cps.
Then, it had me continue testing. The next message was:
Msg - port is operating outside of allowable speed tolerances. Transmitting 92 cps against expected 1920 cps.
Then, another test: Transmitting 0cps against 960cps.
(This MAY have been a Baud rate test, I am not sure). Then, the system shut itself off.
When I boot up, it does tell me that the primary hard drive cannot be found.
Is there some sort of document you know of that shows what to do to remove the hard drive?
Again, thank you for your time and interest in helping me.
I am wondering why the computer technician (whose been doing this about 20 years) to whom I have taken other computers to deal with other things (and knew all the Dell colored diagnostic CD's without even seeing them) would tell me it is the mother board if it wasn't? There was nothing in it for him if it was? That is what is confusing to me. He could have sold me another hard drive and the installation of it.
OK, Nemesis, here are the preliminary results of where things are at. I have to let the system rest again before I can boot it up again.
1. I removed the hard drive.
2. Turned on the system - Dell screen displays - gets past the Dell splash screen.
3. Says "primary drive not found", then Starting Windows, then Loading Dell Diagnostics (because I had the CD in the drive.
Running some of the tests before it died on me.
PROCESSOR - all the tests passed.
SYSTEM BOARD - all the tests passed.
SYSTEM MANAGEMENT - all the tests passed.
Then, I decided to skip down to the Keyboard test - because YOU or someone suggested there might be a problem with the keyboard. I am going to rerun this test again, simply because I already had the system running for about 10 minutes and that is about the time things get squirrely, however - this is what the first results are:
Keyboard Controller Test -- passed
Stuck Key Test - FAILED error code: 2C00:041D
Stuck key detected.. The keyboard continuously transmitting a scan code of AAh.
Then, it brought me to a keyboard layout and had me press each key, starting at the top. When it reached the F8 key, that is where things hung - BUT, it was also about 12-15 minutes into doing the test - which is pretty much when things shut down.
OK - I waited a few minutes and did the Keyboard test again. This time, it passed. I think when I did it earlier, it was really at the tail-end of its ability to stay on - which is when the keyboard does start to freeze and then the system shuts down.
I then did the BATTERY test - and that passed.
Then, I started the CD/DVD test and because I didn't wait for more than the time it took me to write the above info, it shut down the system sooner.
Interestingly - even with the hard drive removed, whenever I press down on the top left portion of the notebook - to the left of the touchpad - I can get a few more seconds or even minutes from the session before it shuts down.
Thanks again! I owe you a bottle of your favorite beverage! :)
Francine
Message Edited by FrancineSF on 11-15-2005 11:53 PM
if the keyboard is continually transmitting a key, that could lead to instability .... i agree with your decision to try and rerun the keyboard test later (we'll see if the problem repeats). consider also running tests on the thermal probe and fan, and on the ram
truth be told, i was hoping things would be fine without the hard drive in.
I need to know what happened when you said things "pretty much shut down." did the computer turn itself off. did the screen freeze but the system stayed on?
if it locked up but stayed on, I would definitely test the ram.
If your machine is turning off, as opposed to just locking up, what happens if you remove the optical drive and turn it on? would it eventually turn itself off or just sit there?
Do these steps when you have time -- there's not really a rush. Post back and I'll try to at least check this thread nightly if not more often.
The fact that you have to wait before you can turn it back on almost suggests a heat problem -- but it's hard to be sure. What happens exactly when you try to turn it back on immediately after a problem? Does the dell screen never come up? If there is an error code (a pattern of flashing lights for instance), it won't hurt to post it -- although I probably won't know what it means
OK -- our emails crossed paths. I went back and edited the post to say that the Keyboard test passed.
What happens is that first, the cursor stops - intermittently it MIGHT function again, but I know I only have a few seconds or minutes to finish what I am doing. If I am in the middle of a test, it stops the test (really, I think the screen freezes) -- and then, if I get another few moments/minutes/seconds, it will start again - but then, the screen freezes and then the system completely shuts down/turns itself off.
I have run the Fan test - which I will do again -- and that passed. I believe earlier, I had tested the Thermo(something - I forget the name) and all of that passed, too.
Believe you me, I really hoped that removing the hard drive was the sole problem, too!! :)
Removing the optical drive - I will look to see if those were in the instructions you posted to me and I will try that. As soon as the computer has finished "resting", I will try finishing up the tests tonight. I know, this is NOT looking very good.
When I turn the power on again IMMEDIATELY after it has shut itself down is NOTHING happens. Well, the green lights will flash for a millisecond and then immediately shut down. It doesn't even get close to the point of getting to the Dell screen. It literally just flashes the lights and wham - they turn off. The pattern -- hmmmm, all three lights on the left turn on and the furthest vertical light on the right turns on -- but I think that is just the power -- and that is it.
from what your describing it's likely either the motherboard or ram... test the ram if you can ... better still, if you have two sticks of ram, try them one at a time (and try them in both slots for a total of four possible combinations) and see if it makes any difference on preventing the problem
NemesisDB
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November 15th, 2005 00:00
you've read about some 5150 users having problems and mistakenly think that you're suffering from the same issue. you're not. overall failure rates are very low -- even for the 5150 which is admittedly higher than most.
yes, you're going to see a ton of people posting about problems here -- because surprise, that's primarily what these forums are for.
chances are the board in your other computers was made by the same company as your dell board (there aren't that many places that make them). given that, next time, regardless of what you buy, buy a longer warranty.
325 is silly for a harddrive -- i'm suprised even dell would try to sell one for that much. goto zipzoomfly or newegg if you ever need a new drive in the future.
lastly, what, if anything, happens when you press the power button on your notebook?
FrancineSF
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November 15th, 2005 01:00
"lastly, what, if anything, happens when you press the power button on your notebook?"
Well, it will boot up - and I can even get some files that I had not backed up -- Saturday was the backup day and of course, the problem started on Thursday of last week. So, it will boot up and the system will stay on for about 10 minutes or so. Gradually, the time it is staying on is less and less. Then, when it freezes and shuts itself off, I have to wait about 30 minutes or longer for it to allow me to boot up again. Of course, I took most things out of Startup since that was eating away at my limited time.
A local computer shop has it, so now that they have diagnosed the real problem (I am sure they turned it on and off many times), it may no longer boot up at all - simply because I was on borrowed time. We will see when I pick it up tomorrow.
Oh yeah - and the $325 hard drive Dell wanted to sell me -- was REFURBISHED, not even new, with the standard 90 day warranty.
Thanks for replying to the venting. I know there is nothing that Dell will do. They have no obligation to do so. Good thing is, I have a choice where I purchase my next notebook - and what I recommend to my clients. It's not the fact that there was a problem, it's all about customer service.
Thanks again!
NemesisDB
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November 15th, 2005 02:00
FrancineSF
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November 15th, 2005 05:00
No, no - I don't mind. If it could POSSIBLY help solve the problem, I am OPEN to discussing! :)
There are two things that occur when turning on the system. It will either:
1) Turn on and boot up just fine all the way to the Desktop and everything is functional. The functional part lasts about 10-15 minutes. Then, the cursor first starts to freeze - then does freeze, sometimes the screen dims just slightly and then brightens again. Then, it will sometimes start to work again, but at that point, I REALLY know I am on borrowed time - and usually very soon thereafter, the system shuts down. This occurs either when turned on for the first time that morning OR, if the system has off for about 20-30 minutes.
or
2) IF it is right after the system has shut itself down - and I IMMEDIATELY try to boot up again, I press the POWER button and the three little lights next to the POWER button flash for a split second like it wants to boot up, but it then immediately shuts down again. I can try that a few times, with the same result, sadly.
Sometimes when the system has the frozen cursor, I noticed if I press together various areas of entire side to the left of the keyboard, it will cause things to work again. So, I hold my left hand pressing - not too hard - say, the bottom left to the keyboard, it will start working again. That can be good, sometimes for another 10 minutes, if I am lucky. Then, it gets to a point where the pointer stays froze - and then it shuts down.
Once, when the pointer/cursor froze, I was out of the room for about an hour because I figured it would shut itself down in a moment, like all the other moments before. But, after an hour, the system was still on, but the pointer was still frozen -- and as soon as I pressed that area to the left of the keyboard, it shut the system down.
OK - that's all I can think of at the moment.
Thanks!
NemesisDB
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November 15th, 2005 12:00
I suppose there's a tiny chance that it's a bad keyboard. can you remove the hard disc and optical drive and try to boot? also, only use a single ram module (if you have 2 -- and change the slots each time you see a no boot situation. once it happens in both slots, use the other stick if you have 2 of them).
again, when you boot we're just looking for the dell screen ... you'll likely get an error after that with no drives in. again, we're just trying to get it up and past the dell screen.
will it still not boot sometimes if you do this?
FrancineSF
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November 15th, 2005 14:00
NemesisDB
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November 15th, 2005 21:00
FrancineSF
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November 16th, 2005 00:00
Message Edited by FrancineSF on 11-15-2005 10:19 PM
NemesisDB
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November 16th, 2005 01:00
i'd actually rather keep talking to you here for now ... as a very simple test, if you remove the current hard drive, does it ever not boot up?
if it boots up (i.e. it gets past the dell screen) then the motherboard is likely fine and it is likely just a hard drive problem
NemesisDB
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November 16th, 2005 02:00
FrancineSF
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November 16th, 2005 02:00
I have not personally removed the hard drive, myself.
I did insert one of the Dell Diagnostic CD's and was able to run some of the tests (before it intermittently turned itself off again) and it did come up with the following error. I was not able to run all of the tests because the system shut itself down again.
error code: 4500:0119
Msg - port is operating outside of allowable speed tolerances. Port base address 3F8h is transmitting 0cps, again an expected 3840 cps.
Then, it had me continue testing. The next message was:
Msg - port is operating outside of allowable speed tolerances. Transmitting 92 cps against expected 1920 cps.
Then, another test: Transmitting 0cps against 960cps.
(This MAY have been a Baud rate test, I am not sure). Then, the system shut itself off.
When I boot up, it does tell me that the primary hard drive cannot be found.
Is there some sort of document you know of that shows what to do to remove the hard drive?
Again, thank you for your time and interest in helping me.
I am wondering why the computer technician (whose been doing this about 20 years) to whom I have taken other computers to deal with other things (and knew all the Dell colored diagnostic CD's without even seeing them) would tell me it is the mother board if it wasn't? There was nothing in it for him if it was? That is what is confusing to me. He could have sold me another hard drive and the installation of it.
FrancineSF
17 Posts
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November 16th, 2005 03:00
OK, Nemesis, here are the preliminary results of where things are at. I have to let the system rest again before I can boot it up again.
1. I removed the hard drive.
2. Turned on the system - Dell screen displays - gets past the Dell splash screen.
3. Says "primary drive not found", then Starting Windows, then Loading Dell Diagnostics (because I had the CD in the drive.
Running some of the tests before it died on me.
PROCESSOR - all the tests passed.
SYSTEM BOARD - all the tests passed.
SYSTEM MANAGEMENT - all the tests passed.
Then, I decided to skip down to the Keyboard test - because YOU or someone suggested there might be a problem with the keyboard. I am going to rerun this test again, simply because I already had the system running for about 10 minutes and that is about the time things get squirrely, however - this is what the first results are:
Keyboard Controller Test -- passed
Stuck Key Test - FAILED error code: 2C00:041D
Stuck key detected.. The keyboard continuously transmitting a scan code of AAh.
Then, it brought me to a keyboard layout and had me press each key, starting at the top. When it reached the F8 key, that is where things hung - BUT, it was also about 12-15 minutes into doing the test - which is pretty much when things shut down.
OK - I waited a few minutes and did the Keyboard test again. This time, it passed. I think when I did it earlier, it was really at the tail-end of its ability to stay on - which is when the keyboard does start to freeze and then the system shuts down.
I then did the BATTERY test - and that passed.
Then, I started the CD/DVD test and because I didn't wait for more than the time it took me to write the above info, it shut down the system sooner.
Interestingly - even with the hard drive removed, whenever I press down on the top left portion of the notebook - to the left of the touchpad - I can get a few more seconds or even minutes from the session before it shuts down.
Thanks again! I owe you a bottle of your favorite beverage! :)
Francine
Message Edited by FrancineSF on 11-15-2005 11:53 PM
NemesisDB
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November 16th, 2005 03:00
if the keyboard is continually transmitting a key, that could lead to instability .... i agree with your decision to try and rerun the keyboard test later (we'll see if the problem repeats). consider also running tests on the thermal probe and fan, and on the ram
truth be told, i was hoping things would be fine without the hard drive in.
I need to know what happened when you said things "pretty much shut down." did the computer turn itself off. did the screen freeze but the system stayed on?
if it locked up but stayed on, I would definitely test the ram.
If your machine is turning off, as opposed to just locking up, what happens if you remove the optical drive and turn it on? would it eventually turn itself off or just sit there?
FrancineSF
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November 16th, 2005 04:00
OK -- our emails crossed paths. I went back and edited the post to say that the Keyboard test passed.
What happens is that first, the cursor stops - intermittently it MIGHT function again, but I know I only have a few seconds or minutes to finish what I am doing. If I am in the middle of a test, it stops the test (really, I think the screen freezes) -- and then, if I get another few moments/minutes/seconds, it will start again - but then, the screen freezes and then the system completely shuts down/turns itself off.
I have run the Fan test - which I will do again -- and that passed. I believe earlier, I had tested the Thermo(something - I forget the name) and all of that passed, too.
Believe you me, I really hoped that removing the hard drive was the sole problem, too!! :)
Removing the optical drive - I will look to see if those were in the instructions you posted to me and I will try that. As soon as the computer has finished "resting", I will try finishing up the tests tonight. I know, this is NOT looking very good.
When I turn the power on again IMMEDIATELY after it has shut itself down is NOTHING happens. Well, the green lights will flash for a millisecond and then immediately shut down. It doesn't even get close to the point of getting to the Dell screen. It literally just flashes the lights and wham - they turn off. The pattern -- hmmmm, all three lights on the left turn on and the furthest vertical light on the right turns on -- but I think that is just the power -- and that is it.
Thanks again for your help.
Francine
NemesisDB
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November 16th, 2005 06:00