Just remember that this is a forum for users that have problems with their dell. You don't see praise for a dell laptop that is working properly because they have no need to be here.
For me personally, I found the service to be pretty good. I also had a friend that ordered something from Dell and they forgot to ship a memory card. He phoned them up and they shipped it. He got it within 2 days. No hassles.
You know you are right. These boards usually reflect the angry and dissappointed. The who Hitachi monitor thing may not be much of an issue for an everyday user. Tech heads seem to get so far into the minutia.
The customer service issues really have me spooked though. I can't imagine having to make hours worth of calls to slove an issue with someone who speaks broken English at best in India. My DSL company (sprint) has their customer service in India as well. I have to keep asking the guys to repeat themselves or that me. If it were a desk top computer I would not be as worried. I gutted my last dell. I now build my own. But a notebook is a different story. Very propriatary.
Im stil gonna have a look at Dell but the Fujitsu looks like the way to go so far. Unless I can get my hands on a refurb 8600 like I want it and can beat the Fuji price.
There are a lot of 'positive' posts on this forum; just like any other. When I had my I7500 and I8000, I had nothing but praise for them - and the service...times change. Before sending my 8200 back; which was the end for me, I had spent hours upon hours on the phone (over a period of a couple of weeks) trying to rectify the situation - which should have been nothing more than a 'simple' part replacement (and English was spoken fluently
) This was well over a year ago. I would hate to think what it's like now!
Just recently bought an Inspiron 8600 notebook and had some issues with the suspend switch. The customer service rep spoke fluent English, was very helpful, and sent me a new part in two days.... and I only had to wait about 2 minutes on the phone. I'm on my sixth Dell computer.... and I can assure you that you will not get better service anywhere else.
Randy
I noticed you have now a Toshiba. My last Laptop was a Toshiba PII Celeron 433. IT was a ROCK. Never let me down
I NEVER buy extended warranties. Any product that causes me to sleep uneasy WITHOUT a service contract is not a product I will buy at any price. The percentages are in the COMPANIE"S faVOR. They have been big business for the past 10 years. I have to figure between Cars, Appliances, TV's and Electronics I have saved over $10,000 AFTER some repairs on the items. Especially things without movung parts! With Electronics if it works for the first few months it will be ok for years in MOST cases.
I used to work for XEROX who at the time had the field service contract for Dell. It was better then. Most customers were satisfied. But even WE had to call some guy on a phone who put us through all kinds of machinations before we could get a replacement part. The onsite servce ONLY saves the phone time AFTER the service guy arrives
I bought a Dell desktop a few years ago but since then I build my own, Cheaper AND better. With notebooks, until they become more modular Im stuck with hope and poke. I love the 8600 (refurb) but am leaning towards the Fujitsi and Toshiba. I cannot stand waiting on hold and talking to Indian's with acccents who are obviously reading from scripts. The customer service seems terrible BUT i do realize the MASS MAJORITY of people who happily own these machines do NOT post that sentiment here. Only a few, so I have to believe the Service is ok for most.
I noticed you post a lot here buy are using a Toshiba now. How do you like it compared to Dell? Will your nect machine be a Toshiba or Dell? Gaming would be nice but its not my main use. I use FS 2004 as a general benchmark for speed and video. The new toshiba 5205 looks great at $1450 and the Fujitsu has some nice refurbs as well.
I like the refurbs because I believe companies do pay extra attention to them as they are returns. And don't ant to see them again and since they know people are naturally leary of them they pay EXTRA care not to send a bad one out as they would be stuck with a lot of pre configured machines without homes. My Desktop was a refurb. I think for those who are afraid and need a service contract the refurb is the best bet. In effect the Service Contract is FREE!!!!
When I got my i8200, i got the Complete care service contract that extends until 2006, i think, which means even accidental damage is covered... it's like accident insurance for a car that doesn't take from your Insurance company... or like getting replacement panels for your Fridge when your (or someone elses) 3 year old kid decides to draw on it with a sharpie!
I think it's awful expensive "dummy" insurance. It's a great dela for Dell though. There are a lot of companies on the NEt who will sell this "brand" of notebook insurance seperate from a service contract which I believe is a total waste for MOST people. Many companies are selling Auto service contracts BECAUSE ITS A GREAT DEAL FOR THEM! and a great deal for VERY FEW of thier customers. You are playing the percentages here and THEY ARE NOT IN YOUR FAVOR. Vegas has better odds at almost 49% advantage to house. If 50% of Dell laptops were coming back for service they would be out of business in a month! Now do the math. I would say only 3 out of 100 go back for service in the first three years based on my experience as a Dell field service rep.. Im not willing to pay hundreds of dollars over and above my purchase sometimes as much as 25% to cover less than 3% or even 10% if that.
My hunch has been right becasue I have NEVER purchased an extended warranty on ANYTHING and although I have had repairs on some items, even my car. The total cost of them in NMO WAY evenr comes close to what I would have spent in contracts over the past 15 years. So Im way ahead and because of that I feel extended warranties are a waste of money for the consumer.
If spending another few hundred dollars makes you sleep better so be it. i 'd rather take Nyquil!!
I carry my laptop with me every day... to work and to school, even friends houses... so having the 'insurance' coverage if i drop it , break the Firewire connection, crack the screen in half even my fault...... it's covered.
I know someone that got his laptop ran over!!!!!!! Now he gets a Referbished Recent model, since they didn't have his old model anymore. That'll be nice for a car.. I'm sorry sir, we do not have your 1997 Honda Civic, So here is a "referbished" 2003 Civic :)
Do a search. I've posted many times about the comparison between my 5200 and a Dell.
I don't think I can afford a 'next' notebook, but if I did; I would buy the best - just like last time. I have no idea what manufacturer that would be.
I agree with Kingfrog that for the most part the extended warranties that companies try to sell are not worth the money. However when it comes high end laptops I believe these warranties have more merit. I am a small business owner who buys a new high end laptop every year or so - typically dropping about 4K with all the extras purchased. First off the money spent on the warranty is considered a business expense (at least in my case) so I get a real tax savings at the end of the year, second you can often times get Complete Care thrown in free on a promo (I did on my last laptop purchase), third if you use your laptop for business having next day on-site service can be crucial, fourth as you spend more money on a laptop the fixed amount paid for the warranty/complete care becomes a smaller percentage of total cost and thus a better value, fifth the portable nature of laptops almost ensures that they will occasionally be bumped, jolted, and handled in a fashion that increases the likelihood of component failure, and finally when you go to sell a laptop you will likely get more $$$ for it if you have a transferable warranty as part of the deal.
I think it was a top exec at SUN or something that said that the countries of indian, Russian, etc, have a better education system then us and they do produce better 'techs'... unfortually :(
Before you dismiss the tech support, remember these 2 things:
1. It's not where they are located, it's how well they help you. I've never dealt with foreign support (that I know of), but my friends form India are far more technically saavy, even those that don't work in the tech industry.
2. Check other manufacturers. Most major manufacturers have call centers around the world. They are all global companies so they have locations everywhere.
Another thing to keep in mind when speaking about warranties is the cost of the coverage and the cost of the loss... it doesn't matter if only 3% of laptops go back to the depot, if every time they do, it costs $1,000 (just as an example).
Personally, I think that if you're spending a lot on a laptop (mine came to almost $5,000CDN with taxes), you should get coverage for as long as you expect to be using it. I've already had one CDRW/DVD drive replacement and one hard drive replacement, and may get my CDRW/DVD drive replaced again (copy protection issues). My warranty was totally worth it for me.
15" UXGA+ (1600 x 1200) High contrast Active Matrix Display 3.2 GHz Intel Pentium 4 Processor (800 Mhz HT 512k L2 Cache) ATI MOBILITY™ RADEON™ 9600 Pro TURBO w/ 128 MB DDR Video Memory 60 GB Hard Drive (6200 RPM) Hitachi 512 MB DDR SDRAM (400 HMz) Dual Channel Internal 1.44 Floppy Drive (swaps with 2nd bay) Internal 8X DVD / 24X CD / 24X CD-RW Toshiba Combo Drive Internal 56k Modem (V.90 & V.92) Internal 10/100/1000 Ethernet/LAN Card Smart Lithium Ion Battery Included PCI wirless Lan 57g 811.1b Ac Adapter w/ power cord Free Carry Case Notebook Essentials Software (12 titles FREE) Windows XP Pro (installed and recovery CD)
Factory 1-yr parts & labor warranty w/ lifetime technical support
Around $2300 shipped no tax!
It only gets cheaper as you drop items and reduce processors or go with pentuim M's They have it all.One reseller charges $40 per year up to three years for extended warranties. The servce calls are answered by real techs who actually assemble and configure the machines. . Free lifetime technical phone support as long as you own the machine. Plus they build all kinds of systems using brand name parts. GUarenteed 72 hour turn around time no matter what the issue, No run around, no hard to understand people who are reading from scripts. 30 day money back NO restocking fee. It's all good. 2.5% discount for cash.
Because most if not all of the parts ffor ALL computers are made overseas by a relative few manufacturers and assembled here, the only thing I really think is inportamt is bang for the buck and warrenty service . Sager seems to have that act together. They pride themselves on NOT using overseas call centers with "albeit smart" people who "screen" calls for actual technicians. When you have a problem you Speak directly with a tech who may have assembled the machine and stay with that person throughout the process. After reading their forum I could not believe there was no real issues or complaints, Talk about pride of ownweship. Many over there are hard core gamer's as well. Since games are the hardest on the machines in all areas I like know they are built for speed and power. 400 Mhz Dual channel ram? Standard. and when yu order a single channel setup with 512 you get ONE stick, Period not two unless your config is dual channel (intel 865P chipset)
You don't see anyone saying thay will never buy a Sager again. I found it refreshing and amazing enough to call some resellers myself and even checked out their "reviews". All were rated extremily high. Sometimes dealing with smaller companies is easier, in fact ALL the time
I have never bought an extended warrenty. My credit card company doubles any warranty.as a value added service, I have to think that as a free it's not breaking the bank! I have been playing the percentages on the side of the house..The cost of loss ratio is not a factor in MOST cases. Look, If I can not sleep at night or trust a product to be trouble free for three years and I felt I NEEDED protection, I would pass on the product altogether. For me it has worked...and for ALL manufacturers and resellers. Even Walmart is getting into the act! I think if an expensive extended warranty helps one have "peace of mind" I suppose it's worth it to them. Hundai is giving 10 year 100,000 mile warranties out on their "inferior" cars, so buying one after 36/3 years seems pretty foolish on a Toyota!. Ya think?
It's all about research and non emotional decision making.
I don't want to bash Dell. I just came in with no knowledge since I buid my own desktops. I neede to research the notebooksI looked at Dell first since I used to service the laptops as part of the XEROX contract. But as an outsider readng this and other forums and reseller rating sites. Well I have to pass. Im sure there are many many happy Dell owners. But bang for the buck..the Sager is better whether Pentuim M or P4M based.
This is one time I won't buy something and see what I could have had for the same or less.
viper11885
791 Posts
0
January 10th, 2004 20:00
For me personally, I found the service to be pretty good. I also had a friend that ordered something from Dell and they forgot to ship a memory card. He phoned them up and they shipped it. He got it within 2 days. No hassles.
kingfrog
13 Posts
0
January 11th, 2004 04:00
You know you are right. These boards usually reflect the angry and dissappointed. The who Hitachi monitor thing may not be much of an issue for an everyday user. Tech heads seem to get so far into the minutia.
The customer service issues really have me spooked though. I can't imagine having to make hours worth of calls to slove an issue with someone who speaks broken English at best in India. My DSL company (sprint) has their customer service in India as well. I have to keep asking the guys to repeat themselves or that me. If it were a desk top computer I would not be as worried. I gutted my last dell. I now build my own. But a notebook is a different story. Very propriatary.
Im stil gonna have a look at Dell but the Fujitsu looks like the way to go so far. Unless I can get my hands on a refurb 8600 like I want it and can beat the Fuji price.
RandyB
518 Posts
0
January 11th, 2004 10:00
dgt5
31 Posts
0
January 11th, 2004 15:00
Message Edited by dgt5 on 01-11-2004 11:56 AM
kingfrog
13 Posts
0
January 11th, 2004 16:00
kingfrog
13 Posts
0
January 11th, 2004 17:00
I noticed you have now a Toshiba. My last Laptop was a Toshiba PII Celeron 433. IT was a ROCK. Never let me down
I NEVER buy extended warranties. Any product that causes me to sleep uneasy WITHOUT a service contract is not a product I will buy at any price. The percentages are in the COMPANIE"S faVOR. They have been big business for the past 10 years. I have to figure between Cars, Appliances, TV's and Electronics I have saved over $10,000 AFTER some repairs on the items. Especially things without movung parts! With Electronics if it works for the first few months it will be ok for years in MOST cases.
I used to work for XEROX who at the time had the field service contract for Dell. It was better then. Most customers were satisfied. But even WE had to call some guy on a phone who put us through all kinds of machinations before we could get a replacement part. The onsite servce ONLY saves the phone time AFTER the service guy arrives
I bought a Dell desktop a few years ago but since then I build my own, Cheaper AND better. With notebooks, until they become more modular Im stuck with hope and poke. I love the 8600 (refurb) but am leaning towards the Fujitsi and Toshiba. I cannot stand waiting on hold and talking to Indian's with acccents who are obviously reading from scripts. The customer service seems terrible BUT i do realize the MASS MAJORITY of people who happily own these machines do NOT post that sentiment here. Only a few, so I have to believe the Service is ok for most.
I noticed you post a lot here buy are using a Toshiba now. How do you like it compared to Dell? Will your nect machine be a Toshiba or Dell? Gaming would be nice but its not my main use. I use FS 2004 as a general benchmark for speed and video. The new toshiba 5205 looks great at $1450 and the Fujitsu has some nice refurbs as well.
I like the refurbs because I believe companies do pay extra attention to them as they are returns. And don't ant to see them again and since they know people are naturally leary of them they pay EXTRA care not to send a bad one out as they would be stuck with a lot of pre configured machines without homes. My Desktop was a refurb. I think for those who are afraid and need a service contract the refurb is the best bet. In effect the Service Contract is FREE!!!!
mrdat
250 Posts
0
January 11th, 2004 17:00
When I got my i8200, i got the Complete care service contract that extends until 2006, i think, which means even accidental damage is covered... it's like accident insurance for a car that doesn't take from your Insurance company... or like getting replacement panels for your Fridge when your (or someone elses) 3 year old kid decides to draw on it with a sharpie!
Message Edited by mrdat on 01-11-2004 01:39 PM
kingfrog
13 Posts
0
January 11th, 2004 17:00
I think it's awful expensive "dummy" insurance. It's a great dela for Dell though. There are a lot of companies on the NEt who will sell this "brand" of notebook insurance seperate from a service contract which I believe is a total waste for MOST people. Many companies are selling Auto service contracts BECAUSE ITS A GREAT DEAL FOR THEM! and a great deal for VERY FEW of thier customers. You are playing the percentages here and THEY ARE NOT IN YOUR FAVOR. Vegas has better odds at almost 49% advantage to house. If 50% of Dell laptops were coming back for service they would be out of business in a month! Now do the math. I would say only 3 out of 100 go back for service in the first three years based on my experience as a Dell field service rep.. Im not willing to pay hundreds of dollars over and above my purchase sometimes as much as 25% to cover less than 3% or even 10% if that.
My hunch has been right becasue I have NEVER purchased an extended warranty on ANYTHING and although I have had repairs on some items, even my car. The total cost of them in NMO WAY evenr comes close to what I would have spent in contracts over the past 15 years. So Im way ahead and because of that I feel extended warranties are a waste of money for the consumer.
If spending another few hundred dollars makes you sleep better so be it. i 'd rather take Nyquil!!
mrdat
250 Posts
0
January 11th, 2004 22:00
I carry my laptop with me every day... to work and to school, even friends houses... so having the 'insurance' coverage if i drop it , break the Firewire connection, crack the screen in half even my fault...... it's covered.
I know someone that got his laptop ran over!!!!!!! Now he gets a Referbished Recent model, since they didn't have his old model anymore. That'll be nice for a car.. I'm sorry sir, we do not have your 1997 Honda Civic, So here is a "referbished" 2003 Civic :)
RandyB
518 Posts
0
January 11th, 2004 23:00
kingfrog:
Do a search. I've posted many times about the comparison between my 5200 and a Dell.
I don't think I can afford a 'next' notebook
, but if I did; I would buy the best - just like last time. I have no idea what manufacturer that would be.
anettis
366 Posts
0
January 12th, 2004 16:00
I agree with Kingfrog that for the most part the extended warranties that companies try to sell are not worth the money. However when it comes high end laptops I believe these warranties have more merit. I am a small business owner who buys a new high end laptop every year or so - typically dropping about 4K with all the extras purchased. First off the money spent on the warranty is considered a business expense (at least in my case) so I get a real tax savings at the end of the year, second you can often times get Complete Care thrown in free on a promo (I did on my last laptop purchase), third if you use your laptop for business having next day on-site service can be crucial, fourth as you spend more money on a laptop the fixed amount paid for the warranty/complete care becomes a smaller percentage of total cost and thus a better value, fifth the portable nature of laptops almost ensures that they will occasionally be bumped, jolted, and handled in a fashion that increases the likelihood of component failure, and finally when you go to sell a laptop you will likely get more $$$ for it if you have a transferable warranty as part of the deal.
Tony
mrdat
250 Posts
0
January 12th, 2004 16:00
I think it was a top exec at SUN or something that said that the countries of indian, Russian, etc, have a better education system then us and they do produce better 'techs'... unfortually :(
Austin_Bike
120 Posts
0
January 12th, 2004 16:00
Kingfrog,
Before you dismiss the tech support, remember these 2 things:
1. It's not where they are located, it's how well they help you. I've never dealt with foreign support (that I know of), but my friends form India are far more technically saavy, even those that don't work in the tech industry.
2. Check other manufacturers. Most major manufacturers have call centers around the world. They are all global companies so they have locations everywhere.
spiked_martini
948 Posts
0
January 12th, 2004 16:00
Another thing to keep in mind when speaking about warranties is the cost of the coverage and the cost of the loss... it doesn't matter if only 3% of laptops go back to the depot, if every time they do, it costs $1,000 (just as an example).
Personally, I think that if you're spending a lot on a laptop (mine came to almost $5,000CDN with taxes), you should get coverage for as long as you expect to be using it. I've already had one CDRW/DVD drive replacement and one hard drive replacement, and may get my CDRW/DVD drive replaced again (copy protection issues). My warranty was totally worth it for me.
kingfrog
13 Posts
0
January 13th, 2004 08:00
Well I decided to go with a Sager.....
.
15" UXGA+ (1600 x 1200) High contrast Active Matrix Display
3.2 GHz Intel Pentium 4 Processor (800 Mhz HT 512k L2 Cache)
ATI MOBILITY™ RADEON™ 9600 Pro TURBO w/ 128 MB DDR Video Memory
60 GB Hard Drive (6200 RPM) Hitachi
512 MB DDR SDRAM (400 HMz) Dual Channel
Internal 1.44 Floppy Drive (swaps with 2nd bay)
Internal 8X DVD / 24X CD / 24X CD-RW Toshiba Combo Drive
Internal 56k Modem (V.90 & V.92)
Internal 10/100/1000 Ethernet/LAN Card
Smart Lithium Ion Battery Included
PCI wirless Lan 57g 811.1b
Ac Adapter w/ power cord
Free Carry Case
Notebook Essentials Software (12 titles FREE)
Windows XP Pro (installed and recovery CD)
Factory 1-yr parts & labor warranty w/ lifetime technical support
Around $2300 shipped no tax!
It only gets cheaper as you drop items and reduce processors or go with pentuim M's They have it all.One reseller charges $40 per year up to three years for extended warranties. The servce calls are answered by real techs who actually assemble and configure the machines. . Free lifetime technical phone support as long as you own the machine. Plus they build all kinds of systems using brand name parts. GUarenteed 72 hour turn around time no matter what the issue, No run around, no hard to understand people who are reading from scripts. 30 day money back NO restocking fee. It's all good. 2.5% discount for cash.
Because most if not all of the parts ffor ALL computers are made overseas by a relative few manufacturers and assembled here, the only thing I really think is inportamt is bang for the buck and warrenty service . Sager seems to have that act together. They pride themselves on NOT using overseas call centers with "albeit smart" people who "screen" calls for actual technicians. When you have a problem you Speak directly with a tech who may have assembled the machine and stay with that person throughout the process. After reading their forum I could not believe there was no real issues or complaints, Talk about pride of ownweship. Many over there are hard core gamer's as well. Since games are the hardest on the machines in all areas I like know they are built for speed and power. 400 Mhz Dual channel ram? Standard. and when yu order a single channel setup with 512 you get ONE stick, Period not two unless your config is dual channel (intel 865P chipset)
You don't see anyone saying thay will never buy a Sager again. I found it refreshing and amazing enough to call some resellers myself and even checked out their "reviews". All were rated extremily high. Sometimes dealing with smaller companies is easier, in fact ALL the time
I have never bought an extended warrenty. My credit card company doubles any warranty.as a value added service, I have to think that as a free it's not breaking the bank! I have been playing the percentages on the side of the house..The cost of loss ratio is not a factor in MOST cases. Look, If I can not sleep at night or trust a product to be trouble free for three years and I felt I NEEDED protection, I would pass on the product altogether. For me it has worked...and for ALL manufacturers and resellers. Even Walmart is getting into the act! I think if an expensive extended warranty helps one have "peace of mind" I suppose it's worth it to them. Hundai is giving 10 year 100,000 mile warranties out on their "inferior" cars, so buying one after 36/3 years seems pretty foolish on a Toyota!. Ya think?
It's all about research and non emotional decision making.
http://http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1867.html Dell READ the recent reviewsf...It's eye opening
http://http://www.resellerratings.com/seller3048.html PC Torque (Sager reseller)
I don't want to bash Dell. I just came in with no knowledge since I buid my own desktops. I neede to research the notebooksI looked at Dell first since I used to service the laptops as part of the XEROX contract. But as an outsider readng this and other forums and reseller rating sites. Well I have to pass. Im sure there are many many happy Dell owners. But bang for the buck..the Sager is better whether Pentuim M or P4M based.
This is one time I won't buy something and see what I could have had for the same or less.
Message Edited by kingfrog on 01-13-2004 04:52 AM