I'm concerned as well, and wrote my peripherals and software rep today about the new 2407wfp-hc monitor i just ordered. I ordered it on 9/21, and it has a ship date of 10/7. I was like man... i wonder why its taking so long to ship a monitor?!?!? Well, after doing some research at many of the gaming and review sites, i noticed MOST of them ALL MENTION the ghosting issues with a few of them linking to mobius' video as well as to this forum. So i decided to check it out. I don't come here much, just when i have some specific issues with our corporate dell PCs, Laptops, Printers, and Servers.
I read through all 39 pages and even linked this topic thread to the email i sent to my premier reps. I basically asked them if the wait for shipment that i seem to have is HOPEFULLY for the possibility that i'll get a new monitor without these problems. I told them that i play cs:s, bf2, cod, and MOH as well as other games AND watch high-action movies. I would NOT be happy getting a monitor that has these issues and which i'm buying out of my own pocket. We have other executives interested in this particular monitor, but i can't buy them knowing that they might have issues, however small they might be. Granted, those people aren't going to use them as much and as extensively as i will, but they expect a closer level of perfection, and if they do notice...
So anyway, i asked LJ for a confirmation on whether the "in production" status that i STILL have is due to DELL hopefully fixing the issues and getting a new revision. Because if not, i'd rather cancel the order now as opposed to getting a subpar and inferior product.
I was THIS CLOSE to just buying a large sharp aquos TV, and just keeping it at home to use with the docking station, BUT... i have 2 offices in 2 different locations, and with my carpel tunnel, i want a big monitor. And carrying a 46" TV is really not practical. I CAN get away with carrying a 24" monitor to and from the offices without much of a problem.
It's great to see a responsive representative at work, and I do appreciate your patience and professionalism on this matter. I feel that some of the other members did bring up an excellent point, and I would like to chime in that I too am among those who have been following this thread for a while now without contributing. I considered purchasing the 2407-HC (I actually went ahead and ordered it 9/19) and then chose NOT to get it (I went ahead and canceled it 9/25) on the basis of this thread. Surely, I cannot be the only one.
I understand the ramifications for Dell if they formally and widely acknowledge the root cause of the ghosting issue - because that would open the door to possibly many exchanges, perhaps from people who originally did not know to look for ghosting / were not unhappy with their monitors prior to hearing about the side-effects of the aggressive overdrive control.
At the same time, there are the people like myself out there who are just waiting to pull the trigger on our credit cards the moment we know we can get a 24 inch monitor with the color quality of the 2407-HC but with the non-ghosting responsiveness of the previous generation's 2405. Could sales actually RISE, as someone else on this forum wisely pointed out, due to the purchases of us tech-savvy customers who are waiting for the product that Dell had originally aspired to deliver?
It's probably not possible to quantify, but I thought it was an interesting point that perhaps you could bring to the higher-ups who are discussing the response on this matter. There are core Dell customers out there, who know their stuff, who research their purchases, who I don't believe have particularly unreasonable expectations (given the lack of this issue in the 2405), who are waiting to buy this monitor.
Message Edited by mrsolo2727 on 09-27-2007 09:41 PM
Dell 2407 HC: 1000:1 Contrast Ratio – "Sharp", "crisp images" and "text." 6 millisecond Response Time – "Reduce ghosting" and "motion blur" when "gaming" or "watching movies". this is for some that still say it's as advertised. I know my English is limited but: "found the cause of the problem" "that we had discovered the root cause" sounds like the same to me. "* Because 98 percent of the buyers of this monitor use it in such a way that they do not see the ghosting." That is where the main root of the problem is, if they stop the production and the selling of this monitor I can assure you the solution will be there by Monday. If someone purchase 10,000 lcds for an office building as long as they don't see the problem we are ok. geez. Does anyone remember that HC meant 92% color gamut = Better colors = better gaming = Gamers are probably the majority complaining and not the people that "use it in such a way that they do not see the ghosting." pretty funny yet sad statement. so wasn't this monitor targeting the gamers? HC !!!!!!! "Basing success on ignorance is not good business." perfect sentence. Again I know ChrisM is not the manufacturer but unfortunately he is the one that carries our concerns to them and sometimes it seems that we are blaming him but in reality we are directing our thoughts to Dell through him. Oh well another week and probably another month will go by without any news.
Message Edited by DimensionGoku on 09-27-2007 09:38 PM
Thanks for your response Chris M. If I take your statistics literally, that would mean Dell has currently sold 5,450 of the monitors thus far ... that's ~$3.7M in sales.
It's surprising that you state Dell cannot reproduce the problem ... ??? How would they determine the root cause if they can't reproduce the problem. That doesn't sound reasonable. In any case, since Dell is NOT admitting to a defective product (and why should they given the economics at stake), my mind is made up and I will NOT be buying the 2407WFP-HC.
I'll keep looking at worthy 24" monitors from Samsung, LG, BenQ. Since I currently have the Samsung 225BW, I'm not hard pressed to make a quick decision for BluRay viewing. Might even wait for LED back lit monitors to enter the market in 2008.
I hope there are some lessons learned for future Dell product launches. One would think that the rigors of QA testing and benchmarking standards would have caught the ghosting/shadowing problem long before it stirred so much ire among discriminating consumers.
I just received my monitor today the manufacture date is Sept. 2007 and I can confirm the issue is still present. I adjusted my monitor settings to match those found at http://www.entechtaiwan.com/lib/softmccs.shtm, while this fixed the issue while scrolling web pages it only enhanced it while watching video. I further adjusted the settings leaving the color settings as recommended I then lowered the brightness to 30 and left the contrast at 50. After doing this I have not noticed the ghosting. Could someone else try these settings and see if it resolves the issue for them?
I think he was talking about these settings (which was for the color trailing issue) -
* Once installed, start the softMCCS application
* Scroll down to Preset operations
* By Restore factory defaults, click the green Restore arrow
* The display will black out and then return
* By Restore factory luminance/contrast defaults, click the green Restore arrow
* By Restore factory geometry defaults, click the green Restore arrow
* By Restore factory color defaults, click the green Restore arrow
* Scroll down to the Image adjustment section
* Use the left/right slider bar and change -
Luminance (brightness) = 50
Contrast = 50 (if listed)
* Under color preset, choose sRGB
Red video gain = 86
Green video gain = 85
Blue video gain = 84
* Close the softMCCS box
* Click No to KEEP the changes if asked
Like fearmore, I've been reading this thread carefully but haven't said anything so far. And like him, I want to also report that I too have a 2407WFP-HC that's been exhibiting ghosting problems which haven't gone away even after I've tried all the suggested adjustments. Thanks, ChrisM, for your efforts so far.
Sorry I linked to the wrong article. Here is the correct link http://www.pretentiousname.com/dell2407fix/index.html,
Red: 86
Green: 85
Blue: 84
Brightness: 30
Contrast: 50
The brightness setting is an adjustment I found that works for me and was not mentioned in the linked article.
Ok people lets not get angry. I'm just as anxious as the next person to have this issue resolved but flaming doesn't make it come sooner.
Anywho, I would have to agree that i think most people who see the issue may not know that this is abnormal behavior or that they don't see the issue because they aren't using the monitor in ways that show the ghosting. Generally running windows desktop apps will not show the problem. I've only seen it in games and even with that said only some games show it. But I must admit that if Dell qualification is saying they can't see it, I don't believe it for a second. Its way too obvious to miss or they are just testing the wrong things for this issue.
Anyway, again I ask you a couple questions ChrisM:
1 How long will you be offering this exchange option?
2. Does the offer depend on when you bought the monitor?
3. If a fix is never release will we be compensated with a newer or better monitor? I would consider this to be fair since it is failing at its "HC" design purpose: games.
1 How long will you be offering this exchange option?
* You are not reading my statement correctly. I never said there will be an exchange option. I used very specific verbiage...
"All, ... We HAVE found the root cause and are working towards a response
and/orfix with our manufacturer.
IF there is another revision, you will all be able to initiate an exchange for this new revision. All I can do is await the response from our manufacturer."
2. Does the offer depend on when you bought the monitor?
* There is not an offer on the table.
3. If a fix is never release will we be compensated with a newer or better monitor? I would consider this to be fair since it is failing at its "HC" design purpose: games.
* No.
Hmmmm... I haven't heard anything back from my premier reps, but if that is the case, i think i'm probably going to cancel. I really dont want to be stuck with a sub-performing 24" monitor. Man, i guess i SHOULD HAVE put a bid on that 2407 (non HC) rev04 monitor on ebay.
I even called today and talked with severals people at customer support and technical support, no-one there is even aware about this thread or about any problem related with this monitor. They even offered to send me a replacement with the same monitor, I tried to explaint to them that I was not calling for that and that even if they send a replacement to people the problem will be still present as it's the model that is affected. They all were clueless about it.
They told me that people have 30 days, yeah not 21 days but 30 to do a return. Now that is news for me. I am interested in find out if the 3 year exchange program will cover this situation when a new revision or a fix is found ( knowing dell that will be next year or when the new model is out).
I really do believe this is a defect. The monitor does not achieve its spec of a 6 ms response time. The monitor does not work as advertised. As far as we know they know what the problem is and may or may not fix it. Only time will tell.
But we know this already.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say a few things.
Please do not criticize ChrisM. He is only doing his job.
No new information has come from the consumer end in a very long time. It seems like we should not need to say very much, other than to post that we do in fact have the monitor, and that we notice the problem. If you have a question, please search the thread, your question has most likely been answered.
Conspiracy theories and other complaints about the issue are not constructive to the common cause or the thread. Perhaps their frequency should curtail. If nothing get fixed, that is unfortunate. End of story. We can complain and whine like babies, but I'm guessing that that will not get us any further. Policies are set in place and what happens happens.
No I am not being paid by Dell.
Let's be civil please - perhaps more than civil, professional.
jason_h
13 Posts
0
September 28th, 2007 00:00
I read through all 39 pages and even linked this topic thread to the email i sent to my premier reps. I basically asked them if the wait for shipment that i seem to have is HOPEFULLY for the possibility that i'll get a new monitor without these problems. I told them that i play cs:s, bf2, cod, and MOH as well as other games AND watch high-action movies. I would NOT be happy getting a monitor that has these issues and which i'm buying out of my own pocket. We have other executives interested in this particular monitor, but i can't buy them knowing that they might have issues, however small they might be. Granted, those people aren't going to use them as much and as extensively as i will, but they expect a closer level of perfection, and if they do notice...
So anyway, i asked LJ for a confirmation on whether the "in production" status that i STILL have is due to DELL hopefully fixing the issues and getting a new revision. Because if not, i'd rather cancel the order now as opposed to getting a subpar and inferior product.
I was THIS CLOSE to just buying a large sharp aquos TV, and just keeping it at home to use with the docking station, BUT... i have 2 offices in 2 different locations, and with my carpel tunnel, i want a big monitor. And carrying a 46" TV is really not practical. I CAN get away with carrying a 24" monitor to and from the offices without much of a problem.
Message Edited by jason_h on 09-27-2007 08:25 PM
mrsolo2727
1 Message
0
September 28th, 2007 01:00
It's great to see a responsive representative at work, and I do appreciate your patience and professionalism on this matter. I feel that some of the other members did bring up an excellent point, and I would like to chime in that I too am among those who have been following this thread for a while now without contributing. I considered purchasing the 2407-HC (I actually went ahead and ordered it 9/19) and then chose NOT to get it (I went ahead and canceled it 9/25) on the basis of this thread. Surely, I cannot be the only one.
I understand the ramifications for Dell if they formally and widely acknowledge the root cause of the ghosting issue - because that would open the door to possibly many exchanges, perhaps from people who originally did not know to look for ghosting / were not unhappy with their monitors prior to hearing about the side-effects of the aggressive overdrive control.
At the same time, there are the people like myself out there who are just waiting to pull the trigger on our credit cards the moment we know we can get a 24 inch monitor with the color quality of the 2407-HC but with the non-ghosting responsiveness of the previous generation's 2405. Could sales actually RISE, as someone else on this forum wisely pointed out, due to the purchases of us tech-savvy customers who are waiting for the product that Dell had originally aspired to deliver?
It's probably not possible to quantify, but I thought it was an interesting point that perhaps you could bring to the higher-ups who are discussing the response on this matter. There are core Dell customers out there, who know their stuff, who research their purchases, who I don't believe have particularly unreasonable expectations (given the lack of this issue in the 2405), who are waiting to buy this monitor.
Message Edited by mrsolo2727 on 09-27-2007 09:41 PM
DimensionGoku
77 Posts
0
September 28th, 2007 01:00
Message Edited by DimensionGoku on 09-27-2007 09:38 PM
jaggernaut
14 Posts
0
September 28th, 2007 01:00
It's surprising that you state Dell cannot reproduce the problem ... ??? How would they determine the root cause if they can't reproduce the problem. That doesn't sound reasonable. In any case, since Dell is NOT admitting to a defective product (and why should they given the economics at stake), my mind is made up and I will NOT be buying the 2407WFP-HC.
I'll keep looking at worthy 24" monitors from Samsung, LG, BenQ. Since I currently have the Samsung 225BW, I'm not hard pressed to make a quick decision for BluRay viewing. Might even wait for LED back lit monitors to enter the market in 2008.
I hope there are some lessons learned for future Dell product launches. One would think that the rigors of QA testing and benchmarking standards would have caught the ghosting/shadowing problem long before it stirred so much ire among discriminating consumers.
Good luck everyone.
jared.curtis
2 Posts
0
September 28th, 2007 04:00
psmcginnis
5 Posts
0
September 28th, 2007 10:00
DELL-Chris M
Community Manager
•
56.9K Posts
0
September 28th, 2007 12:00
I think he was talking about these settings (which was for the color trailing issue) -
* Once installed, start the softMCCS application
* Scroll down to Preset operations
* By Restore factory defaults, click the green Restore arrow
* The display will black out and then return
* By Restore factory luminance/contrast defaults, click the green Restore arrow
* By Restore factory geometry defaults, click the green Restore arrow
* By Restore factory color defaults, click the green Restore arrow
* Scroll down to the Image adjustment section
* Use the left/right slider bar and change -
Luminance (brightness) = 50
Contrast = 50 (if listed)
* Under color preset, choose sRGB
Red video gain = 86
Green video gain = 85
Blue video gain = 84
* Close the softMCCS box
* Click No to KEEP the changes if asked
specular
1 Message
0
September 28th, 2007 14:00
jared.curtis
2 Posts
0
September 28th, 2007 14:00
Sorry I linked to the wrong article. Here is the correct link http://www.pretentiousname.com/dell2407fix/index.html,
Red: 86
Green: 85
Blue: 84
Brightness: 30
Contrast: 50
The brightness setting is an adjustment I found that works for me and was not mentioned in the linked article.
krogoth86
3 Posts
0
September 28th, 2007 14:00
Anywho, I would have to agree that i think most people who see the issue may not know that this is abnormal behavior or that they don't see the issue because they aren't using the monitor in ways that show the ghosting. Generally running windows desktop apps will not show the problem. I've only seen it in games and even with that said only some games show it. But I must admit that if Dell qualification is saying they can't see it, I don't believe it for a second. Its way too obvious to miss or they are just testing the wrong things for this issue.
Anyway, again I ask you a couple questions ChrisM:
1 How long will you be offering this exchange option?
2. Does the offer depend on when you bought the monitor?
3. If a fix is never release will we be compensated with a newer or better monitor? I would consider this to be fair since it is failing at its "HC" design purpose: games.
DELL-Chris M
Community Manager
•
56.9K Posts
0
September 28th, 2007 15:00
* You are not reading my statement correctly. I never said there will be an exchange option. I used very specific verbiage...
"All, ... We HAVE found the root cause and are working towards a response and/orfix with our manufacturer. IF there is another revision, you will all be able to initiate an exchange for this new revision. All I can do is await the response from our manufacturer."
2. Does the offer depend on when you bought the monitor?
* There is not an offer on the table.
3. If a fix is never release will we be compensated with a newer or better monitor? I would consider this to be fair since it is failing at its "HC" design purpose: games.
* No.
um2802
1 Message
0
September 28th, 2007 17:00
jason_h
13 Posts
0
September 28th, 2007 17:00
DimensionGoku
77 Posts
0
September 28th, 2007 19:00
acatellier
10 Posts
0
September 28th, 2007 20:00
But we know this already.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say a few things.
Please do not criticize ChrisM. He is only doing his job.
No new information has come from the consumer end in a very long time. It seems like we should not need to say very much, other than to post that we do in fact have the monitor, and that we notice the problem. If you have a question, please search the thread, your question has most likely been answered.
Conspiracy theories and other complaints about the issue are not constructive to the common cause or the thread. Perhaps their frequency should curtail. If nothing get fixed, that is unfortunate. End of story. We can complain and whine like babies, but I'm guessing that that will not get us any further. Policies are set in place and what happens happens.
No I am not being paid by Dell.
Let's be civil please - perhaps more than civil, professional.
Thanks.