Well my montior got here today and I must say that I am very relieved. I'm not sure if I lucked out or something but I'm not seeing any of the reported problems in this monitor. The colours are great and I have little to no input lag using the dvi-dvi setup. Unless I notice something in the next couple days I might not even bother with the A01 (or whatever the revision is being called now).
I got my 2408WFP "Days of deals" monitor too. It has all the problems: red tint, uneven background light, big lag and no neutral sharpness.
I have shown the monitor to a friend and he cannot see the red tint and the uneven background light. Good for those guys, two problems less for them.
I can live with the red tint, and the uneven background light. They are too small for me personally. Even the lag is tolerable for me.
But the sharpness is unacceptable. I use small and thin fonts when I work. If the sharpness is set to 25 the letters are to thick, if is set to 50 they are too washed. The neutral sharpness is somewhere in between.
I could see the lag by mirroring the desktop with another CRT monitor. If I move the mouse cursor quickly I can see on the monitors that the cursor is moving unsynchronized.
I would not be surprised if the red tint is caused by the coating, not by the glass itself. And the lag could be caused by the sharpening algorithm, in which case by disabling this feature from the menu the lag will disappear.
But the good news is that I have a bad pixel :). So anyway I have to request a replacement for it.
So, ah, what did you all think of the 2407WFP-HC? I ordered a 2408WFP before learning about these issues, so i'm thinking if A01 doesn't somehow fix them all, i might as well try to return it and go find one of those 2407's for sale somewhere. The reviews all seem quite positive, and I don't need the extended color gamut of the 2408. Unfortunately, Dell itself doesn't seem to sell them any more.
This may be a bit off-topic, but since that one doesn't have HDMI-in, would you get acceptable quality using an HDMI-DVI adapter from some device that only uses HDMI-out? You'd need to split off the audio, too, wouldn't you?
I ordered the 2408 here in Canada from the last sale. It arrived 3 days ago and I must say I'm quite disappointed. My biggest complaint is the horrible method in which text is rendered. On my older Dell 2005 widescreen I had no issues, however on this panel I find myself trying to tweak every paramater just to get an acceptable text display.
edit: like a previous poster, sharpness at 50 causes fonts to be extremely thin, at 25 fonts are thicker and not as sharp. ClearText (even with MS' tuning site) just muddles things up even more.
Looks like I'll be returning this and looking at a competiting panel to improve things. :(
I had 3 of these rubbish things before getting wise and demanding a refund, i then bought a cheap samsung as a way of getting me by until i got something more permanent, it was excellent. i have now taken delivery of a brand new Benq FP241W which is totally stunning straight out of the box, a little tweak here and there and bang im in monitor heaven.
It has some input lag (not as bad as the 2408) but im not a gamer so it doesnt bother me, im a photographer and for photo editing its stunning, all the details are therte in the shadows unlike the Dell, colours are just right unlike the Dell, brightness is very controllable unlike the Dell.
The 2407WFP-HC has reports of "black ghosting", acknowledged but not remedied.
The BenQ FP241W has pretty high reviews, but some people report a "blackout" problem, where it loses its signal for 2 seconds about once a day. It doesn't happen to everyone, so maybe it's worth trying anyway. The input lag was measured by TFT Central at 33.7ms average (compared to 64.1ms for the 2408WFP and 34.3ms for 2407WFP-HC) so it's probably not high enough to bother me.
Now, the FP241WZ comes with their implementation of a screening technology that may or may not be something i'd want to use. Yet, this review at behardware.com doesn't quite rave about the image quality, with it on or off.
I don't think i want to go up to a 30" monitor.
After all the headaches of trying to find the "perfect" monitor, i swear i'd spend $1500 to get a "flawless" 24". Why can't somebody make a CRT? My desk can take the weight.
I have heard nothing but good about the NEC LCD2490WUXiSV and the LCD2690WUXiSV. These come complete with a hardware color calibrator for retail $1299 and $1399 US, and are a $100 less for the same models without the calibrator (the same number but without the SV). In fact several pages back in this thread Dell_Jimmy_P advocated buying the model Dell sells (without the calibrator if I recall correctly) if one needed a "tighter spec" than the 2408 delivered. So you can get a professional grade/quality 26 inch monitor for less than the $1500 you thought you may go to! I'm pretty sure thats where my money is going...there or Eizo.
after some break and all the font/sharpness tuning we did before I had some time to compare side by side the 2407wfp_A04 and my 2408wfp_A00.
In terms of panel homogenity I must say the 2408 is actually slightly better. The left side on 2407 is actually a bit brighter than at 2408. It seems that both models probably suffer from similar manufacturing problem.
I ran all monitor tests available in Monitor Diagnostics of Lavalys (Everest Ultimate Editio v4.20) and 2408 did quite well. I could see significant banding effects on 2407, on red color test screen only.
On the other hand running Hue/Saturation/Lightness palette test you can see how they are difeerently interpreted. On both panels they look very different!
Although the test run relatively well on 2408 the quality of the colors is INCOMPARABLE worse as with 2408. The over saturation for red and green, although reduced significantly with tuning are still not to be accepted.
With sharpness there's still some room to improve for 2408, as it tires my eyes very quickly whereas working long hours with 2407 is absolutely no problem. I wonder why there's such a huge difference between these 2 panels?? Having these 2 monitors side by side exposes clearly how unnatural the 2408 color display is.
The same test with pictures displayed in Adobe Photoshop using the sRGB colorspace diminishes the difference between these two panels, but still the 2407 is nicer to look at.
I really expect that with the incoming A01 firmware I receive a replacement monitor that will be at least of quality of the 2407. If not, as my other colleagues here on this forum I will look for a refund.
I was promised by the Dell's sellsman a monitor that wil have all the capabilities and quality of the 2407 model I'm using now plus the new features.
So far I didn't get much and I'm really tiread with all these tweaking with that panel.
Recently, I noticed even the bottom of the panel case is misshaped, the 2407 case is shaped perfectly.
Dell, why you could make 2407_A04 delivering almost perfect pictures out of the box and the 2408 cannot do it even after all these corrections we have done here?
BR
PS
>I have heard nothing but good about the NEC LCD2490WUXiSV and the LCD2690WUXiSV.
I have not seen this model available for Germany. It is only advertised on the US' site. Any chance to get it here in Europe?
Over on the ard|Forum, http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1276377 , the posters say the NEC 2490 and 2690 have a notable amount of input lag and that they are unsuitable for gaming, which is one of my primary motivators. Other than that, though, they have nothing but praise for it, apparently. The Planar model they recommend instead if you need quick response (which apparently uses the same panel) has reports of its own issues with backlight leaking and banding at 1:1 1080p. Furthermore, one review reports that both monitors have a "checkerboard pixel" issue and some faint lines on the left side, as seen here, http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/53065-3-planar-px2611w-review . That guy may just be hallucinating, though.
Here, http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1273566 , they say that the lag is due to some kind of frame buffer that NEC used that can't be turned off. That's a pity.
If i'm not mistaken, the 2408 is darn near perfect aside from the 1) red tint that not everyone sees, which may be attributable to it not being on every one or color calibration fixing it, 2) huge input lag, 3) slightly higher backlighting on the left side (how did THAT happen?) and 4) the wacky "sharpness" control that sounds like it degrades image quality at any setting. What's even the point of a sharpness control on an LCD? If i send you a pixel, can't you just display that pixel on your pixel? Anyway, i eagerly anticipate A01 to see what it ends up being like.
Message Edited by Corrodias on 07-01-2008 10:47 AM
Haha, well, yes, Gary. I didn't say the monitor IS perfect or even acceptable. Most of the monitors we're discussing are near perfect, with just a few flaws that may make them completely unacceptable if you're demanding maximum quality.
Thanks for the info on the NEC! I would be using it for graphic design work and never for gaming, movies, etc, so the input lag wouldn't bother me...unless i move my pen and 3 seconds later the brush or whatever tool moves on. But I will need a much larger desk! I will have 2 24s and a 26!
curtis_rick, please try it somewhere before you buy it. There are a lot of people like me, who don't game and have found input lag unbearable in windows use due to delayed mouse pointer. I have a Wacom tablet and it is even more pronounced with it. Some people don't notice that at all, so you GOT to try it for yourself first.
Thanks for the heads up quenteen! I will check it out, a pronounced lag with the tablet would drive me nuts! I had a high resolution painter file lagging with a large brush size and it made me crazy enough I ceased the project. I will try before I buy for sure...thanks again...maybe I am being driven into the several thousand dollar Eizo corner!
From what i'm aware, the lag on the NEC's is "2 frames" which should work out to about 33ms (2/60). That's pretty average, isn't it? I'm not even sure that should be noticable by humans. The 2407wfp-hc and BenQ FP241W have that much lag. For measurements of a number of popular models, check the bottom of this review: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_2408wfp.htm . The NEC 2690 is listed there, and you can see how it compares to the others.
Make sure, when you try it, that you're not connected through some multi-display system in a store that will increase the lag in a manner inappropriate for representation.
What does Eizo have? :o
Message Edited by Corrodias on 07-01-2008 03:58 PM
Benzo99
4 Posts
0
June 27th, 2008 22:00
Well my montior got here today and I must say that I am very relieved. I'm not sure if I lucked out or something but I'm not seeing any of the reported problems in this monitor. The colours are great and I have little to no input lag using the dvi-dvi setup. Unless I notice something in the next couple days I might not even bother with the A01 (or whatever the revision is being called now).
Very pleased with the product ^_^
ScreenName13
3 Posts
0
June 28th, 2008 19:00
I got my 2408WFP "Days of deals" monitor too. It has all the problems: red tint, uneven background light, big lag and no neutral sharpness.
I have shown the monitor to a friend and he cannot see the red tint and the uneven background light. Good for those guys, two problems less for them.
I can live with the red tint, and the uneven background light. They are too small for me personally. Even the lag is tolerable for me.
But the sharpness is unacceptable. I use small and thin fonts when I work. If the sharpness is set to 25 the letters are to thick, if is set to 50 they are too washed. The neutral sharpness is somewhere in between.
I could see the lag by mirroring the desktop with another CRT monitor. If I move the mouse cursor quickly I can see on the monitors that the cursor is moving unsynchronized.
I would not be surprised if the red tint is caused by the coating, not by the glass itself. And the lag could be caused by the sharpening algorithm, in which case by disabling this feature from the menu the lag will disappear.
But the good news is that I have a bad pixel :). So anyway I have to request a replacement for it.
Corrodias
9 Posts
0
June 30th, 2008 21:00
So, ah, what did you all think of the 2407WFP-HC? I ordered a 2408WFP before learning about these issues, so i'm thinking if A01 doesn't somehow fix them all, i might as well try to return it and go find one of those 2407's for sale somewhere. The reviews all seem quite positive, and I don't need the extended color gamut of the 2408. Unfortunately, Dell itself doesn't seem to sell them any more.
This may be a bit off-topic, but since that one doesn't have HDMI-in, would you get acceptable quality using an HDMI-DVI adapter from some device that only uses HDMI-out? You'd need to split off the audio, too, wouldn't you?
MrDisco
6 Posts
0
July 1st, 2008 02:00
I ordered the 2408 here in Canada from the last sale. It arrived 3 days ago and I must say I'm quite disappointed. My biggest complaint is the horrible method in which text is rendered. On my older Dell 2005 widescreen I had no issues, however on this panel I find myself trying to tweak every paramater just to get an acceptable text display.
edit: like a previous poster, sharpness at 50 causes fonts to be extremely thin, at 25 fonts are thicker and not as sharp. ClearText (even with MS' tuning site) just muddles things up even more.
Looks like I'll be returning this and looking at a competiting panel to improve things. :(
Gary Coyle
80 Posts
0
July 1st, 2008 04:00
I had 3 of these rubbish things before getting wise and demanding a refund, i then bought a cheap samsung as a way of getting me by until i got something more permanent, it was excellent. i have now taken delivery of a brand new Benq FP241W which is totally stunning straight out of the box, a little tweak here and there and bang im in monitor heaven.
It has some input lag (not as bad as the 2408) but im not a gamer so it doesnt bother me, im a photographer and for photo editing its stunning, all the details are therte in the shadows unlike the Dell, colours are just right unlike the Dell, brightness is very controllable unlike the Dell.
Buy it.
Corrodias
9 Posts
0
July 1st, 2008 07:00
The 2407WFP-HC has reports of "black ghosting", acknowledged but not remedied.
The BenQ FP241W has pretty high reviews, but some people report a "blackout" problem, where it loses its signal for 2 seconds about once a day. It doesn't happen to everyone, so maybe it's worth trying anyway. The input lag was measured by TFT Central at 33.7ms average (compared to 64.1ms for the 2408WFP and 34.3ms for 2407WFP-HC) so it's probably not high enough to bother me.
Now, the FP241WZ comes with their implementation of a screening technology that may or may not be something i'd want to use. Yet, this review at behardware.com doesn't quite rave about the image quality, with it on or off.
I don't think i want to go up to a 30" monitor.
After all the headaches of trying to find the "perfect" monitor, i swear i'd spend $1500 to get a "flawless" 24". Why can't somebody make a CRT? My desk can take the weight.
curtis_rick
91 Posts
0
July 1st, 2008 13:00
Corrodias,
I have heard nothing but good about the NEC LCD2490WUXiSV and the LCD2690WUXiSV. These come complete with a hardware color calibrator for retail $1299 and $1399 US, and are a $100 less for the same models without the calibrator (the same number but without the SV). In fact several pages back in this thread Dell_Jimmy_P advocated buying the model Dell sells (without the calibrator if I recall correctly) if one needed a "tighter spec" than the 2408 delivered. So you can get a professional grade/quality 26 inch monitor for less than the $1500 you thought you may go to! I'm pretty sure thats where my money is going...there or Eizo.
Andre66
33 Posts
0
July 1st, 2008 14:00
Hi All,
after some break and all the font/sharpness tuning we did before I had some time to compare side by side the 2407wfp_A04 and my 2408wfp_A00.
In terms of panel homogenity I must say the 2408 is actually slightly better. The left side on 2407 is actually a bit brighter than at 2408. It seems that both models probably suffer from similar manufacturing problem.
I ran all monitor tests available in Monitor Diagnostics of Lavalys (Everest Ultimate Editio v4.20) and 2408 did quite well. I could see significant banding effects on 2407, on red color test screen only.
On the other hand running Hue/Saturation/Lightness palette test you can see how they are difeerently interpreted. On both panels they look very different!
Although the test run relatively well on 2408 the quality of the colors is INCOMPARABLE worse as with 2408. The over saturation for red and green, although reduced significantly with tuning are still not to be accepted.
With sharpness there's still some room to improve for 2408, as it tires my eyes very quickly whereas working long hours with 2407 is absolutely no problem. I wonder why there's such a huge difference between these 2 panels?? Having these 2 monitors side by side exposes clearly how unnatural the 2408 color display is.
The same test with pictures displayed in Adobe Photoshop using the sRGB colorspace diminishes the difference between these two panels, but still the 2407 is nicer to look at.
I really expect that with the incoming A01 firmware I receive a replacement monitor that will be at least of quality of the 2407. If not, as my other colleagues here on this forum I will look for a refund.
I was promised by the Dell's sellsman a monitor that wil have all the capabilities and quality of the 2407 model I'm using now plus the new features.
So far I didn't get much and I'm really tiread with all these tweaking with that panel.
Recently, I noticed even the bottom of the panel case is misshaped, the 2407 case is shaped perfectly.
Dell, why you could make 2407_A04 delivering almost perfect pictures out of the box and the 2408 cannot do it even after all these corrections we have done here?
BR
PS
>I have heard nothing but good about the NEC LCD2490WUXiSV and the LCD2690WUXiSV.
I have not seen this model available for Germany. It is only advertised on the US' site. Any chance to get it here in Europe?
Corrodias
9 Posts
0
July 1st, 2008 14:00
Over on the ard|Forum, http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1276377 , the posters say the NEC 2490 and 2690 have a notable amount of input lag and that they are unsuitable for gaming, which is one of my primary motivators. Other than that, though, they have nothing but praise for it, apparently. The Planar model they recommend instead if you need quick response (which apparently uses the same panel) has reports of its own issues with backlight leaking and banding at 1:1 1080p. Furthermore, one review reports that both monitors have a "checkerboard pixel" issue and some faint lines on the left side, as seen here, http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/53065-3-planar-px2611w-review . That guy may just be hallucinating, though.
Here, http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1273566 , they say that the lag is due to some kind of frame buffer that NEC used that can't be turned off. That's a pity.
If i'm not mistaken, the 2408 is darn near perfect aside from the 1) red tint that not everyone sees, which may be attributable to it not being on every one or color calibration fixing it, 2) huge input lag, 3) slightly higher backlighting on the left side (how did THAT happen?) and 4) the wacky "sharpness" control that sounds like it degrades image quality at any setting. What's even the point of a sharpness control on an LCD? If i send you a pixel, can't you just display that pixel on your pixel? Anyway, i eagerly anticipate A01 to see what it ends up being like.
Gary Coyle
80 Posts
0
July 1st, 2008 14:00
So its darn near perfect but for everything you would want in a good monitor.
Ahhhh, now i know where ive been going wrong, ive been expecting a monitor to do what a monitor is advertised to do and should do, silly me.
Corrodias
9 Posts
0
July 1st, 2008 15:00
Haha, well, yes, Gary. I didn't say the monitor IS perfect or even acceptable. Most of the monitors we're discussing are near perfect, with just a few flaws that may make them completely unacceptable if you're demanding maximum quality.
curtis_rick
91 Posts
0
July 1st, 2008 15:00
quenteen
11 Posts
0
July 1st, 2008 18:00
curtis_rick, please try it somewhere before you buy it. There are a lot of people like me, who don't game and have found input lag unbearable in windows use due to delayed mouse pointer. I have a Wacom tablet and it is even more pronounced with it. Some people don't notice that at all, so you GOT to try it for yourself first.
curtis_rick
91 Posts
0
July 1st, 2008 19:00
Corrodias
9 Posts
0
July 1st, 2008 19:00
From what i'm aware, the lag on the NEC's is "2 frames" which should work out to about 33ms (2/60). That's pretty average, isn't it? I'm not even sure that should be noticable by humans. The 2407wfp-hc and BenQ FP241W have that much lag. For measurements of a number of popular models, check the bottom of this review: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_2408wfp.htm . The NEC 2690 is listed there, and you can see how it compares to the others.
Make sure, when you try it, that you're not connected through some multi-display system in a store that will increase the lag in a manner inappropriate for representation.
What does Eizo have? :o