Pixel Response Time and Input Lag are two different things, although both may be measured in milliseconds. Dell has not published a specification for Input Lag.
I have a 2408 and im a keen gamer. I use the 2408 for crysis on 1900x1200 with high detail and get no noticable input lag. Maybe its because I have a high end system? maybe some people are confusing input lag with their system not keeping up to high demoands from software such as crysis?
In my honest opinion, the 2408 is an excellent monitor for gaming and general use, if using it for photography or applications requiring accurate color reproduction then it needs a fair amount of setting up with additional tools.
In comparison to other monitors such as the syncmaster 244T (gets a fantastic rating) the 2408 stacks up pretty well (although the white banding can be annoying in certain gray tones - but this is only noticed a fraction of the time when used in general purpose).
I have not seen any Dell advertisement suggestion the monitor to be a professional unit - I bought it based on the fact it was a good price for a 24inch monitor that wasnt a TN panel!
Thx for the heads up on the refresh rate. I had no idea they were too seperate things.
I don't really notice too much lag when playing games so much, it's just moving the mouse around Windiows, and apps. It just feals floaty and delayed. I have a hard time pin-pointing my selections. Having just come from work, where I use a less expensive Samsung that works fine, it's especially noticeable. Just grabbing the mouse and clicking on an icon takes some concentration. I just hope the new version fixes this. If not, it's just a total waist for me.
I truly am glad you are having a great experience with this monitor. I would need it for photography and graphic design and as such have the hardware calibration tools needed to calibrate it, though I have read numerous posts where even with such calibration this monitor can't be tamed for these applications.
As to not seeing a Dell advertisement suggesting this is at least an entry level professional model read my post here http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=dim_monitor&message.id=91865#M91865 if you have the time and inclination.
I am happy you bought it based on price and it not being a TN panel yet had a good outcome. I however, wanted it based on specs, and as such am ecstatic I waited to see how it performed in the real world. This and numerous other forum posts bear out the wisdom of my prudence, at least for my application. If I just needed it to play games and watch videos and casual use such as that, I likely still couldn't live with some if this panel's inexcusable glaring quality control issues that so many have experienced.
As for the previous poster noting the fire sale, I noted a while back that this monitor was on the longest running sale in Dell history!
Message Edited by curtis_rick on 07-15-2008 09:37 AM
I have a 2408 and im a keen gamer. I use the 2408 for crysis on 1900x1200 with high detail and get no noticable input lag. Maybe its because I have a high end system? maybe some people are confusing input lag with their system not keeping up to high demoands from software such as crysis?
In my honest opinion, the 2408 is an excellent monitor for gaming and general use, if using it for photography or applications requiring accurate color reproduction then it needs a fair amount of setting up with additional tools.
In comparison to other monitors such as the syncmaster 244T (gets a fantastic rating) the 2408 stacks up pretty well (although the white banding can be annoying in certain gray tones - but this is only noticed a fraction of the time when used in general purpose).
I have not seen any Dell advertisement suggestion the monitor to be a professional unit - I bought it based on the fact it was a good price for a 24inch monitor that wasnt a TN panel!
I can not believe you are not noticing this insane input lag! You are one of the few! Consider yourself lucky. I haven't even tried a game yet and I can see the input lag in just general Windows usage. Not to mention, Dell has already admitted to the input lag as a problem. I dare not try a game with this monitor. Gee, just what kind of high end system you have over there to compensate for this monitor's extreme input lag. You must be running something only available to the military (must be nice)! There are videos on YouTube that demonstrate this monitor side by side to other monitors and you can visually see the major delay it has. One video shows just a user moving around a window in Windows XP...this Dell monitor takes a while to catch up to re-position the window in it's final position. I actually pulled my video card and replaced it just to have 2 DVI ports to run 2 of these monitors. I put in an ATI AGP 8x HD2400 with 512MB of RAM. I know this is not high end but shouldn't it be enough to drive these monitors??? ...in just Windows (not even gaming). Ok, my system is not high end but it is an Intel P4 with 2GB of RAM. Not enough??? Again, NOT gaming...just want regular Windows to have a decent refresh rate. It gives me a headache to use the mouse wheel like I did on my CRT's. I used to be able to focus on text while wheeling at full speed...not anymore!!!!!! Now it's slow! I-N-P-U-T L-A-G, folks! Time to order up a couple NEC IPS-type panel monitors or something of the like! And, I did not even re-touch on the poor color management for sRGB images on this post! Dell, you got a hot RMA coming in! Either give me a definite date for this firmware upgrade AND what the fixes are or give me a refund!
I have a 2408 and im a keen gamer. I use the 2408 for crysis on 1900x1200 with high detail and get no noticable input lag. Maybe its because I have a high end system? maybe some people are confusing input lag with their system not keeping up to high demoands from software such as crysis?
In my honest opinion, the 2408 is an excellent monitor for gaming and general use, if using it for photography or applications requiring accurate color reproduction then it needs a fair amount of setting up with additional tools.
In comparison to other monitors such as the syncmaster 244T (gets a fantastic rating) the 2408 stacks up pretty well (although the white banding can be annoying in certain gray tones - but this is only noticed a fraction of the time when used in general purpose).
I have not seen any Dell advertisement suggestion the monitor to be a professional unit - I bought it based on the fact it was a good price for a 24inch monitor that wasnt a TN panel!
I have a new high end system too and when i play BF2, COD4, GTR2, RACE07 etc i get more or less sea sick 20 min in the game.. I replaced my CRT with 2408WFP and it looks very nice, but i can not play on it. Even moving applikations in windows feels wrong because of input lag. I tested to run 3Dmark06 on 2408WFP and a 2208WFP in cloned mode, then i used my digital camera to take a photo on both screens at the same time. I noticed that 2408WFP are 4-5 fps slower compared to 2208WFP. Moving a window on both monitors at the same time shows a "rubberband" effect on 2408WFP. I now have to use the smaller and cheaper 2208WFP and my wife got the 2408WFP.......... Graphics on 2408WFP looks incredible but Dell must the fix input lag now!
6MS RESPONSE TIME! is G2G (gray to gray) that has NOTHING to do with input lag. If you want to bemoan the specs, please grasp them first.
Input lag is a different beast, and involves how long what is being generated on the computer appears on the screen. This monitor does not have advertised specs for input lag, but several highly reputable review sites have this as being just about the worst monitor in its category, which is fine since it is "entry level" according to Dell :smileywink:
Here's hoping the revision comes soon and its changes are publicly announced, and reviewed.
Nowhere is this monitor listed as the 24 inch entry level with regards to its advertising or specs. The E248WFP is the entry level 24 inch Dell monitor as it is a non-ultra sharp TN panel with far less features and boasting. The fact that the 2408WFP is not an entry level panel is further evident in this quote from the 2408's info page "Dell Limited Warranty3. Unyielding commitment to quality and the satisfaction of our customers has driven Dell to offer a Premium Panel Guarantee ensuring replacement of UltraSharp series monitors with zero bright pixels. Even if only one bright pixel is found, a free panel exchange is guaranteed during the limited warranty(3) period, so you can rest assured your investment is protected." This level of warranty is not offered on the TN panel as evidenced on its page. Ultrasharp monitors have never been Dell's entry level, they are the Dell premium panel for the given panel size.
So, I would suggest that before you label this an "entry level monitor according to Dell" that you please have a grasp of the Dell advertisement and warranty copy.:smileywink:
You are right, I need to grasp all the techy stuff before I start calling it out. But wouldn't that ad lead somenone to believe they are buying a quick, responsive monitor? Regular consumers, like myself, are going to be misled. Granted, with this experience, I will never buy a monitor again without having to apparently jump through hoops. Lesson learned. Thx Dell. At least I got something out of this.
DELL IS CURRENTLY STILL ADVERTISING THIS MONITOR WITH A 6MS RESPONSE TIME!
Now the facts are, it's more like 20-40ms AVERAGE. Can someone please tell me if this is false advertising?
6MS RESPONSE TIME! is G2G (gray to gray) that has NOTHING to do with input lag. If you want to bemoan the specs, please grasp them first.
Input lag is a different beast, and involves how long what is being generated on the computer appears on the screen. This monitor does not have advertised specs for input lag, but several highly reputable review sites have this as being just about the worst monitor in its category, which is fine since it is "entry level" according to Dell :smileywink:
Here's hoping the revision comes soon and its changes are publicly announced, and reviewed.
Curtis, my entry level comment was sarcasm, hence the quotes and the wink, in reference to Dell staff's earlier notes to look to NEC for a professional monitor.
Gates, Yes it is a shame the way these things are marketed, but that is part of the advertising game, even within the "response time" numbers it depends on which companies monitor you are looking at as some measure using different criteria. A little standardization would be nice in the market, that all makers adhered to, but the admen will always use language to further the bottom line, it is what they are trained to do, and one could say is evidenced by the lack of input lag times advertised by manufacturers of LCD's.
I am one of those that has been strapped with this 2408WFP monitor as well as a defective desktop system.
I don't seem to have all the issues as others, but for what it's worth, Dell has simply dropped the ball on this one.
As Starkness observed, the ad-men took control of this long ago while Dell management looked the other way.
I can live with my defective monitor and system and also see why others cannot. But that is really not the bigger question.
That would be, "Why has Dell Management allowed this to become such an issue with their loyal customers"?
I have considered this question for quite some time and cannot find an adaquate answer to this question.
The lack of information from Dell, the apparent change in part numbers, the lack of shipping the newer version, and on and on, leaves one to believe that Dell does not intend to address this issue with their defective product.
Now for me, that is fine. However, all this does is to drive loyal Dell customers to other providers. Once there, they probably will not return to Dell.
Please don't misunderstand my comments. I have been a Dell loyal customer since Dell went into business.
But due to management decisions recently, I have made a strategic decision to take my businesss elsewhere.
Now Dell want miss my business at all. But when thousands of loyal Dell customer leave to purchase from other venders, Dell will see the result showing in their bottom line.
I certainly hope Dell sees the error of their ways and makes changes to address their monitor and other product issues.
So I ordered my 2408fwp over the weekend bearing these risks. What is the possibility that I will be getting this "mid july" revision? The unit is still under production until 7/17 and ETA is 7/22. I'll keep you guys posted if I get the revision but let me know your thoughts.
gpro
2 Intern
•
2K Posts
0
July 15th, 2008 01:00
wakarimashta
105 Posts
0
July 15th, 2008 01:00
I have a 2408 and im a keen gamer. I use the 2408 for crysis on 1900x1200 with high detail and get no noticable input lag. Maybe its because I have a high end system? maybe some people are confusing input lag with their system not keeping up to high demoands from software such as crysis?
In my honest opinion, the 2408 is an excellent monitor for gaming and general use, if using it for photography or applications requiring accurate color reproduction then it needs a fair amount of setting up with additional tools.
In comparison to other monitors such as the syncmaster 244T (gets a fantastic rating) the 2408 stacks up pretty well (although the white banding can be annoying in certain gray tones - but this is only noticed a fraction of the time when used in general purpose).
I have not seen any Dell advertisement suggestion the monitor to be a professional unit - I bought it based on the fact it was a good price for a 24inch monitor that wasnt a TN panel!
Gates25
1 Rookie
•
11 Posts
0
July 15th, 2008 02:00
Thx for the heads up on the refresh rate. I had no idea they were too seperate things.
I don't really notice too much lag when playing games so much, it's just moving the mouse around Windiows, and apps. It just feals floaty and delayed. I have a hard time pin-pointing my selections. Having just come from work, where I use a less expensive Samsung that works fine, it's especially noticeable. Just grabbing the mouse and clicking on an icon takes some concentration. I just hope the new version fixes this. If not, it's just a total waist for me.
ruxjaye
30 Posts
0
July 15th, 2008 03:00
I'm only showing a $100 discount....
curtis_rick
91 Posts
0
July 15th, 2008 03:00
wakarimashta:
I truly am glad you are having a great experience with this monitor. I would need it for photography and graphic design and as such have the hardware calibration tools needed to calibrate it, though I have read numerous posts where even with such calibration this monitor can't be tamed for these applications.
As to not seeing a Dell advertisement suggesting this is at least an entry level professional model read my post here http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=dim_monitor&message.id=91865#M91865 if you have the time and inclination.
I am happy you bought it based on price and it not being a TN panel yet had a good outcome. I however, wanted it based on specs, and as such am ecstatic I waited to see how it performed in the real world. This and numerous other forum posts bear out the wisdom of my prudence, at least for my application. If I just needed it to play games and watch videos and casual use such as that, I likely still couldn't live with some if this panel's inexcusable glaring quality control issues that so many have experienced.
As for the previous poster noting the fire sale, I noted a while back that this monitor was on the longest running sale in Dell history!
SpeedRacer01S4
7 Posts
0
July 15th, 2008 04:00
I can not believe you are not noticing this insane input lag! You are one of the few! Consider yourself lucky. I haven't even tried a game yet and I can see the input lag in just general Windows usage. Not to mention, Dell has already admitted to the input lag as a problem. I dare not try a game with this monitor. Gee, just what kind of high end system you have over there to compensate for this monitor's extreme input lag. You must be running something only available to the military (must be nice)! There are videos on YouTube that demonstrate this monitor side by side to other monitors and you can visually see the major delay it has. One video shows just a user moving around a window in Windows XP...this Dell monitor takes a while to catch up to re-position the window in it's final position. I actually pulled my video card and replaced it just to have 2 DVI ports to run 2 of these monitors. I put in an ATI AGP 8x HD2400 with 512MB of RAM. I know this is not high end but shouldn't it be enough to drive these monitors??? ...in just Windows (not even gaming). Ok, my system is not high end but it is an Intel P4 with 2GB of RAM. Not enough??? Again, NOT gaming...just want regular Windows to have a decent refresh rate. It gives me a headache to use the mouse wheel like I did on my CRT's. I used to be able to focus on text while wheeling at full speed...not anymore!!!!!! Now it's slow! I-N-P-U-T L-A-G, folks! Time to order up a couple NEC IPS-type panel monitors or something of the like! And, I did not even re-touch on the poor color management for sRGB images on this post! Dell, you got a hot RMA coming in! Either give me a definite date for this firmware upgrade AND what the fixes are or give me a refund!JasonJ75
18 Posts
0
July 15th, 2008 11:00
True...It was there last night, apparently for only a few hours.
Thomas_A
4 Posts
0
July 15th, 2008 16:00
I have a new high end system too and when i play BF2, COD4, GTR2, RACE07 etc i get more or less sea sick 20 min in the game.. I replaced my CRT with 2408WFP and it looks very nice, but i can not play on it. Even moving applikations in windows feels wrong because of input lag. I tested to run 3Dmark06 on 2408WFP and a 2208WFP in cloned mode, then i used my digital camera to take a photo on both screens at the same time. I noticed that 2408WFP are 4-5 fps slower compared to 2208WFP. Moving a window on both monitors at the same time shows a "rubberband" effect on 2408WFP. I now have to use the smaller and cheaper 2208WFP and my wife got the 2408WFP.......... Graphics on 2408WFP looks incredible but Dell must the fix input lag now!
ruxjaye
30 Posts
0
July 15th, 2008 16:00
curtis_rick
91 Posts
0
July 15th, 2008 19:00
Nowhere is this monitor listed as the 24 inch entry level with regards to its advertising or specs. The E248WFP is the entry level 24 inch Dell monitor as it is a non-ultra sharp TN panel with far less features and boasting. The fact that the 2408WFP is not an entry level panel is further evident in this quote from the 2408's info page "Dell Limited Warranty3. Unyielding commitment to quality and the satisfaction of our customers has driven Dell to offer a Premium Panel Guarantee ensuring replacement of UltraSharp series monitors with zero bright pixels. Even if only one bright pixel is found, a free panel exchange is guaranteed during the limited warranty(3) period, so you can rest assured your investment is protected." This level of warranty is not offered on the TN panel as evidenced on its page. Ultrasharp monitors have never been Dell's entry level, they are the Dell premium panel for the given panel size.
So, I would suggest that before you label this an "entry level monitor according to Dell" that you please have a grasp of the Dell advertisement and warranty copy.:smileywink:
Gates25
1 Rookie
•
11 Posts
0
July 15th, 2008 19:00
You are right, I need to grasp all the techy stuff before I start calling it out. But wouldn't that ad lead somenone to believe they are buying a quick, responsive monitor? Regular consumers, like myself, are going to be misled. Granted, with this experience, I will never buy a monitor again without having to apparently jump through hoops. Lesson learned. Thx Dell. At least I got something out of this.
Starkness
25 Posts
0
July 15th, 2008 19:00
6MS RESPONSE TIME! is G2G (gray to gray) that has NOTHING to do with input lag. If you want to bemoan the specs, please grasp them first.
Input lag is a different beast, and involves how long what is being generated on the computer appears on the screen. This monitor does not have advertised specs for input lag, but several highly reputable review sites have this as being just about the worst monitor in its category, which is fine since it is "entry level" according to Dell :smileywink:
Here's hoping the revision comes soon and its changes are publicly announced, and reviewed.
Starkness
25 Posts
0
July 15th, 2008 20:00
Curtis, my entry level comment was sarcasm, hence the quotes and the wink, in reference to Dell staff's earlier notes to look to NEC for a professional monitor.
Gates, Yes it is a shame the way these things are marketed, but that is part of the advertising game, even within the "response time" numbers it depends on which companies monitor you are looking at as some measure using different criteria. A little standardization would be nice in the market, that all makers adhered to, but the admen will always use language to further the bottom line, it is what they are trained to do, and one could say is evidenced by the lack of input lag times advertised by manufacturers of LCD's.
Cheers.
Boyd B
552 Posts
0
July 15th, 2008 21:00
I am one of those that has been strapped with this 2408WFP monitor as well as a defective desktop system.
I don't seem to have all the issues as others, but for what it's worth, Dell has simply dropped the ball on this one.
As Starkness observed, the ad-men took control of this long ago while Dell management looked the other way.
I can live with my defective monitor and system and also see why others cannot. But that is really not the bigger question.
That would be, "Why has Dell Management allowed this to become such an issue with their loyal customers"?
I have considered this question for quite some time and cannot find an adaquate answer to this question.
The lack of information from Dell, the apparent change in part numbers, the lack of shipping the newer version, and on and on, leaves one to believe that Dell does not intend to address this issue with their defective product.
Now for me, that is fine. However, all this does is to drive loyal Dell customers to other providers. Once there, they probably will not return to Dell.
Please don't misunderstand my comments. I have been a Dell loyal customer since Dell went into business.
But due to management decisions recently, I have made a strategic decision to take my businesss elsewhere.
Now Dell want miss my business at all. But when thousands of loyal Dell customer leave to purchase from other venders, Dell will see the result showing in their bottom line.
I certainly hope Dell sees the error of their ways and makes changes to address their monitor and other product issues.
brianjcho
5 Posts
0
July 15th, 2008 21:00
Hello,
So I ordered my 2408fwp over the weekend bearing these risks. What is the possibility that I will be getting this "mid july" revision? The unit is still under production until 7/17 and ETA is 7/22. I'll keep you guys posted if I get the revision but let me know your thoughts.
-brian