"Dell and NVIDIA admit that the failure is a result of overheating due to an inadequate cooling system operations and they have remedied an update in the bios that forces the fans to run constantly. "
Do you havea link to this, or is it just hearsay from the repairer? I don't think Dell has publicly admitted anything, and since nVidia has nothing to to with anything other than the chip itself, it would have said nothing.
This sounds like an entrepreneur with a "fix" of unknown origin and a claim of suspect veracity. And the 90 days is the same as what you'd get for any replacement card from any repair shop - in other words - caveat emptor. If it's true that overheating is the problem, then it may be solved. If it's not - and the 7900 series is subject to the same manufacturing flaws that the 8400 and 8600 chips are, then it's a temporary fix - because in that case, it's not overheating, but rather damage caused by thermal cycling that is the issue.
"As of right now for video cards that fail within 2 years from purchase Dell will "at it's descretion" replace the entire notebook with another"
where has the above statement been published by Dell?
They've only extended warranties on the 8400 and 8600 chips by 12 months - it is unlikely they would extend coverage on even older systems by longer than that.
I recently experienced an Nvidia 7 series video card failure on my just over three year old E1705. The repair was covered under warranty, and the tech that serviced my computer replaced the card with an ATI Radeon X1400 video card. I didn't even notice until I tried to reload the Nvidia drivers. On a hunch I tried the ATI drivers on the Dell site for my computer model, and bingo, everything started to work.
The fact that the ATI cards run fine in the same system leads me to wonder whether it's really the design flaw that the above post claims. It sounds like nVidia's chip problems go back further than they're admitting (and it'll be interesting to see if they also extend forward to the current line of chips).
Your links are below. In responce to my post read the video card in which I'm referencing. The M1710 systems that utilize this video card are not compatible with any other card. I challenge you to find a "NEW" video card of this model anywhere. If you can provide that I will gladly back off. Second, I referenced directly that the warranty has been extended to 2 years and that the intent of the post was to inform those that are out of warranty. I expect the manufacturer of any product to insure that the system they design is able to carry the load. Premature failure of a major component of the system and in the volumes that it has occured in is unacceptable and is an indication that Dell's engineers failed to design the system to provide adequate ventilation. The updated bios forces the fans to work harder and can consequently result in premature fan failure as well. Along with that my system failed with the bios update. Whether the failure be due to NVIDIA or not, Dell markets the product and is therefore responsible for keeping good faith and loyalty of their customers. NVIDIA is responsible for keeping good faith with Dell since they market their product to Dell. If you would seriously invest $3000+ in a system that you knew would not last you more then two to three years then you must have a lot of money to replace your system every two to three years. I purchased my system in good faith and it failed not due to my own fault but due to a design fault and Dell can not even provide me any coverage or a replacement video card. That is poor service if you ask me. If you bought an automobile, a part failed, your warranty expired and the manufacturer of the car could not even provide you with a replacement of the part I'm sure you would be pretty frustrated. By the way, I had no problem paying for a new video card. The problem is that a new video card can not be found by of all people the makers of the laptop.
Those Dell notices refer to the 8400 and 8600 chips, which were NOT used in the XPS M1710. There is no official word on the chips in these systems.
And the problem with the 8400 and 8600 has nothing to do with the notebook design - it is a manufacturing flaw in the chipmaking process.
As for replacements, it MAY be true that Dell will replace systems like the 9400/M1710 when the cards fail - but it's because they're so long out of production that parts are simply not available.
There simply is NO evidence it's a system design flaw - and the fact that the ATI X1400 and integrated Intel video in the E1705/9400 works fine makes it FAR more likely it is an nVidia fault - THAT would not be correctable with a design modification to the notebook.
I purchased my laptop directly from Dell a little more than two years ago. If parts are unavailable only two years from Dell selling it, I find that extreme. It does not matter who made the video card. It comes down to the fact that Dell designed, built the notebooks and marketed them. When Bridgestone/Firestone had the big issue with the tires about 9 years ago they could have said it wasn't them. After all they didn't make the rubber right? No, the responsible party is the one that markets the product to the public. NVIDIA did not market to the public, it marketed to Dell. Dell marketed the product to the public so they are responsible for the flaw in design of their system. It's confusing why you wold post any arguments against my post. The intent is to help those that are not wealthy enough to be able to purchase a whole new system. Am I critical of Dell, your dang straight I am but it's because Dell has failed it's customers by marketing a defective product and then refusing to cover it when the problem was due to a design flaw whether it be the card or case design. Dell should stand up and do the right thing instead of failing it's customers. I know I will never buy a Dell again. They have lost my business because I did not purchase my system with the intent of it failing after 2 years, 3 months and then finding out that parts were unavailable to repair it. You can back up the company as much as you like but as I stated, the intent of the post is to help those that Dell has failed, not to promote somebody's business. You seem to find it more fun demonize my good intention. I live in Phoenix and there is not a single computer shop that could fix my card. Dell could not provide me a card. It was by a stroke of luck that I found somebody on the east coast that has dealt with this issue and was able to fix it. Where you assert that I'm out to promote somebody's business I'm inclined to believe that you are out to promote predatory product marketing. If you can't fix a problem you made, designed and sold less then two years ago that is bad business practice. I would be surprised if Dell survives if they continue to fail the people they market their products to.
Dell did not design OR build the system. They were made FOR Dell by a contractor, Compal of Taiwan. And it is very common for notebook part production to end with the model cycle, with just enough spares being made to cover expected warranty replacements. It simply makes no sense to build up a huge stock of parts that are proprietary to one or two models of notebook and useless for any other.
My problem is that you're posting unsubstantiated information - not with your opinion of Dell computer. I'm not backing Dell in the least - what I am saying is that there is simply no evidence whatsoever that Dell has any program for covering these 79xx-based cards, and that there is simply no evidence of a design flaw in the systems themselves. There MAY in fact be issues with these nVidia chips, as there have been with successor models, but no design modification is going to fix those.
The product is marketed and distributed by Dell therefore it is thier product. My arguments substatiate that there is a problem, my references back that up and I submit some remedy to the problem. Your comments do not provide any solution and are defensive at the least. In short, your comments are nothing more than empty words.
It's your comments that are NOT backed up by anything published by Dell, not mine - and your resorting to a personal attack just more evidence of that. You have an agenda, which is just fine - just don't expect to promote that agenda without being challenged. You've provided absolutely nothing but the bitterness of a bad personal experience with Dell. There are those for every company making personal computers, but they're not evidence in the least of a major problem. Fact: 25% of ALL NOTEBOOKS will have a major component fail within the first three years. FACT: the M1710 is over three years old in the marketplace. Parts fail more as they age. Perhaps the failure rate of the 7900 cards in these systems is abnormally high; perhaps it is not - whatever the truth is, there's been no public acknowledgement of the problem by Dell or by nVidia. There HAS been such for the 8400 and 8600, but NOT the 7900.
Anyone in business to make money on purporting a fix for this problem should have his/her objectivity questioned.
Well said jamesburmood, I paid $3000 for this XPS M1710 because I thought it would last me many years before it was "outdated". I don't even play games on it, I just bought it as a desktop replacement really so I am baffled how it could not stand up to light use even for this long. The first motherboard, 7950 GTX gpu, memory and keyboard were replaced after the first 10 months or so, after a month of troubleshooting. I certainly did not even imagine it could fail again only after another year and half. I've been a good customer to Dell over the years but they force me to move over this. Oh well ... their loss will be greater than mine in the end.
James You're quite right in laying the blame at Dells' feet - whether it's Nvidia, some taiwanese co manufacturing or anything else, Dell SOLD this machine under the current spec - THEY got our money and clearly there lies a fault.
Not sure of the BIOS fix, mine already runs A07 (and the fans arent always on either)
I agree that in all likelihood the fault appears to be with the Nvidia card, but as Dell supply this machine & spec, that point is moot - I've performed the "oven baking method" for 3 mins either side at 305F (150C) and so far my card has been ok for almost a month now. I suspect this is just a temporary fix and have left my laptop on almost constantly since.
Does anyone know if an alternative card would fit? (eg the E1705's ATi Radeon X1400 - less memory, slower but seems correct?)
No one is disagreeing with you, but the fact remains that Dell has shipped computers with known video card issues long after they themselves found out about the problem.
ejn63
9 Legend
•
87.5K Posts
0
May 2nd, 2009 04:00
"Dell and NVIDIA admit that the failure is a result of overheating due to an inadequate cooling system operations and they have remedied an update in the bios that forces the fans to run constantly. "
Do you havea link to this, or is it just hearsay from the repairer? I don't think Dell has publicly admitted anything, and since nVidia has nothing to to with anything other than the chip itself, it would have said nothing.
This sounds like an entrepreneur with a "fix" of unknown origin and a claim of suspect veracity. And the 90 days is the same as what you'd get for any replacement card from any repair shop - in other words - caveat emptor. If it's true that overheating is the problem, then it may be solved. If it's not - and the 7900 series is subject to the same manufacturing flaws that the 8400 and 8600 chips are, then it's a temporary fix - because in that case, it's not overheating, but rather damage caused by thermal cycling that is the issue.
"As of right now for video cards that fail within 2 years from purchase Dell will "at it's descretion" replace the entire notebook with another"
where has the above statement been published by Dell?
They've only extended warranties on the 8400 and 8600 chips by 12 months - it is unlikely they would extend coverage on even older systems by longer than that.
JSR55
9 Posts
0
May 2nd, 2009 05:00
I recently experienced an Nvidia 7 series video card failure on my just over three year old E1705. The repair was covered under warranty, and the tech that serviced my computer replaced the card with an ATI Radeon X1400 video card. I didn't even notice until I tried to reload the Nvidia drivers. On a hunch I tried the ATI drivers on the Dell site for my computer model, and bingo, everything started to work.
ejn63
9 Legend
•
87.5K Posts
0
May 2nd, 2009 08:00
The fact that the ATI cards run fine in the same system leads me to wonder whether it's really the design flaw that the above post claims. It sounds like nVidia's chip problems go back further than they're admitting (and it'll be interesting to see if they also extend forward to the current line of chips).
jamesburmood
4 Posts
0
May 2nd, 2009 09:00
Your links are below. In responce to my post read the video card in which I'm referencing. The M1710 systems that utilize this video card are not compatible with any other card. I challenge you to find a "NEW" video card of this model anywhere. If you can provide that I will gladly back off. Second, I referenced directly that the warranty has been extended to 2 years and that the intent of the post was to inform those that are out of warranty. I expect the manufacturer of any product to insure that the system they design is able to carry the load. Premature failure of a major component of the system and in the volumes that it has occured in is unacceptable and is an indication that Dell's engineers failed to design the system to provide adequate ventilation. The updated bios forces the fans to work harder and can consequently result in premature fan failure as well. Along with that my system failed with the bios update. Whether the failure be due to NVIDIA or not, Dell markets the product and is therefore responsible for keeping good faith and loyalty of their customers. NVIDIA is responsible for keeping good faith with Dell since they market their product to Dell. If you would seriously invest $3000+ in a system that you knew would not last you more then two to three years then you must have a lot of money to replace your system every two to three years. I purchased my system in good faith and it failed not due to my own fault but due to a design fault and Dell can not even provide me any coverage or a replacement video card. That is poor service if you ask me. If you bought an automobile, a part failed, your warranty expired and the manufacturer of the car could not even provide you with a replacement of the part I'm sure you would be pretty frustrated. By the way, I had no problem paying for a new video card. The problem is that a new video card can not be found by of all people the makers of the laptop.
http://en.community.dell.com/blogs/direct2dell/archive/2008/07/25/nvidia-gpu-update-for-dell-laptop-owners.aspx
http://en.community.dell.com/blogs/direct2dell/archive/2008/08/08/latest-on-the-nvidia-gpu-issue-for-dell-laptop-customers.aspx
http://en.community.dell.com/blogs/direct2dell/archive/2008/08/18/nvidia-gpu-update-dell-to-offer-warranty-enhancement-to-all-affected-customers-worldwide.aspx
http://en.community.dell.com/blogs/direct2dell/archive/2008/09/12/nvidia-gpu-update-limited-warranty-enhancement-details.aspx
ejn63
9 Legend
•
87.5K Posts
0
May 2nd, 2009 11:00
Those Dell notices refer to the 8400 and 8600 chips, which were NOT used in the XPS M1710. There is no official word on the chips in these systems.
And the problem with the 8400 and 8600 has nothing to do with the notebook design - it is a manufacturing flaw in the chipmaking process.
As for replacements, it MAY be true that Dell will replace systems like the 9400/M1710 when the cards fail - but it's because they're so long out of production that parts are simply not available.
There simply is NO evidence it's a system design flaw - and the fact that the ATI X1400 and integrated Intel video in the E1705/9400 works fine makes it FAR more likely it is an nVidia fault - THAT would not be correctable with a design modification to the notebook.
jamesburmood
4 Posts
0
May 2nd, 2009 15:00
I purchased my laptop directly from Dell a little more than two years ago. If parts are unavailable only two years from Dell selling it, I find that extreme. It does not matter who made the video card. It comes down to the fact that Dell designed, built the notebooks and marketed them. When Bridgestone/Firestone had the big issue with the tires about 9 years ago they could have said it wasn't them. After all they didn't make the rubber right? No, the responsible party is the one that markets the product to the public. NVIDIA did not market to the public, it marketed to Dell. Dell marketed the product to the public so they are responsible for the flaw in design of their system. It's confusing why you wold post any arguments against my post. The intent is to help those that are not wealthy enough to be able to purchase a whole new system. Am I critical of Dell, your dang straight I am but it's because Dell has failed it's customers by marketing a defective product and then refusing to cover it when the problem was due to a design flaw whether it be the card or case design. Dell should stand up and do the right thing instead of failing it's customers. I know I will never buy a Dell again. They have lost my business because I did not purchase my system with the intent of it failing after 2 years, 3 months and then finding out that parts were unavailable to repair it. You can back up the company as much as you like but as I stated, the intent of the post is to help those that Dell has failed, not to promote somebody's business. You seem to find it more fun demonize my good intention. I live in Phoenix and there is not a single computer shop that could fix my card. Dell could not provide me a card. It was by a stroke of luck that I found somebody on the east coast that has dealt with this issue and was able to fix it. Where you assert that I'm out to promote somebody's business I'm inclined to believe that you are out to promote predatory product marketing. If you can't fix a problem you made, designed and sold less then two years ago that is bad business practice. I would be surprised if Dell survives if they continue to fail the people they market their products to.
ejn63
9 Legend
•
87.5K Posts
0
May 2nd, 2009 15:00
Dell did not design OR build the system. They were made FOR Dell by a contractor, Compal of Taiwan. And it is very common for notebook part production to end with the model cycle, with just enough spares being made to cover expected warranty replacements. It simply makes no sense to build up a huge stock of parts that are proprietary to one or two models of notebook and useless for any other.
My problem is that you're posting unsubstantiated information - not with your opinion of Dell computer. I'm not backing Dell in the least - what I am saying is that there is simply no evidence whatsoever that Dell has any program for covering these 79xx-based cards, and that there is simply no evidence of a design flaw in the systems themselves. There MAY in fact be issues with these nVidia chips, as there have been with successor models, but no design modification is going to fix those.
jamesburmood
4 Posts
0
May 2nd, 2009 17:00
The product is marketed and distributed by Dell therefore it is thier product. My arguments substatiate that there is a problem, my references back that up and I submit some remedy to the problem. Your comments do not provide any solution and are defensive at the least. In short, your comments are nothing more than empty words.
ejn63
9 Legend
•
87.5K Posts
0
May 2nd, 2009 18:00
It's your comments that are NOT backed up by anything published by Dell, not mine - and your resorting to a personal attack just more evidence of that. You have an agenda, which is just fine - just don't expect to promote that agenda without being challenged. You've provided absolutely nothing but the bitterness of a bad personal experience with Dell. There are those for every company making personal computers, but they're not evidence in the least of a major problem. Fact: 25% of ALL NOTEBOOKS will have a major component fail within the first three years. FACT: the M1710 is over three years old in the marketplace. Parts fail more as they age. Perhaps the failure rate of the 7900 cards in these systems is abnormally high; perhaps it is not - whatever the truth is, there's been no public acknowledgement of the problem by Dell or by nVidia. There HAS been such for the 8400 and 8600, but NOT the 7900.
Anyone in business to make money on purporting a fix for this problem should have his/her objectivity questioned.
XPS_DEAD_AGAIN
1 Rookie
•
36 Posts
0
September 10th, 2009 15:00
Well said jamesburmood, I paid $3000 for this XPS M1710 because I thought it would last me many years before it was "outdated". I don't even play games on it, I just bought it as a desktop replacement really so I am baffled how it could not stand up to light use even for this long. The first motherboard, 7950 GTX gpu, memory and keyboard were replaced after the first 10 months or so, after a month of troubleshooting. I certainly did not even imagine it could fail again only after another year and half. I've been a good customer to Dell over the years but they force me to move over this. Oh well ... their loss will be greater than mine in the end.
Andy.Gascoigne
1 Message
0
March 7th, 2010 07:00
James You're quite right in laying the blame at Dells' feet - whether it's Nvidia, some taiwanese co manufacturing or anything else, Dell SOLD this machine under the current spec - THEY got our money and clearly there lies a fault.
Not sure of the BIOS fix, mine already runs A07 (and the fans arent always on either)
I agree that in all likelihood the fault appears to be with the Nvidia card, but as Dell supply this machine & spec, that point is moot - I've performed the "oven baking method" for 3 mins either side at 305F (150C) and so far my card has been ok for almost a month now. I suspect this is just a temporary fix and have left my laptop on almost constantly since.
Does anyone know if an alternative card would fit? (eg the E1705's ATi Radeon X1400 - less memory, slower but seems correct?)
Andy
amschutz
1 Message
0
March 7th, 2010 08:00
No one is disagreeing with you, but the fact remains that Dell has shipped computers with known video card issues long after they themselves found out about the problem.
http://en.community.dell.com/blogs/direct2dell/archive/2008/07/25/nvidia-gpu-update-for-dell-laptop-owners.aspx