Just realised those are the xy of SRGB, probably from my last calibration to SRGB. Learning...

I just opened DCCS to try 0.68 0.31, Adobe G, Adobe B and saw this as default screen, even though I never did a custom space calibration. These values are different from the Dispcal readings of my profiles, they seem to be Adobe R, 0.30 0.6, Adobe B, no clue how they got there.

I don't really care about printing or publishing. Photography is a hobby and not business for me.

> I mean, you have a problem, a serious problem solved nicely with Windows systems with 150euro GPU hardware (Quadro/Firepros win 10bit on Windows), or for free with limited gamuts (with some limitations), 

I understand, that you would have a problem with my setup.
It would be nice if you would understand, that I don't.

I would do that if my computer would be a workstation for picture editing only, but it isn't.
I also most likely would not have the Dell monitor if it would be, but a CG277 or similar.

My PC needs to run games and supply video+audio via HDMI to a home cinema system as well. 4K being like everywhere, I really wanted to have a HDMI 2.0. btw. the GTX970 was 380€. It is really not about money.

Maybe someday, when I am very bored, I will try to insert a second graphic card. Being a cheap quadro, but I do not know if consumer and "professional" card will coexist. I will probably not get BIOS on the secondary quadro card aso.

> dell monitor have NOT the feature of arbitrary profile emulation

The monitor can be calibrated to different primaries and color emulation seems to be there. Targets like "DCI-P3 emulation" are available. It seems to me they are working fine. Something I miss?

> And that drawbacks need to be told to people with less color management expertise.

Fine with me :)

Here is another side by side: on the left you got the DCSS Native (same as left above), on the right you got the Custom Gamut 0.685 0.31 Adobe G Adobe B. The latter seems to be smaller in the blue/violet area.

Not sure about the conclusion here. Any view?

Visually this time I have to say they are quite different, the Custom one has got the shadows way more open than the Native.

OK, these are the results of my test. Here is a comparison between DCCS calibration to Native (left), and then the same calibration after the profiling (only) in DispCal (right). Is the one on the right better? The gamut seems wider, covers AdobeRGB and more. I did not know profiling could change the gamut, I thought the gamut was monitor setting + calibration thing.

Visually, looking at the Mac Yosemite wallpaper I cannot spot any difference.

@brightcolor

"

> dell monitor have NOT the feature of arbitrary profile emulation

The monitor can be calibrated to different primaries and color emulation seems to be there. Targets like "DCI-P3 emulation" are available. It seems to me they are working fine. Something I miss?

"

I mean the ability to simulate ANY device "in gamut":

-no neutral grey

-arbitrary gamma

-printer profiles (but this can be done in limited way with softproofing)

So a graphic designer hired for desing an applicaion interface for mobile devices can see in real time or with a few clicks its works on any profiles device without actually owning them, or copy the image each time for each device (and device generation's).
It could be done on dells with the help of softproofing but this needs a color managed app, so most "emulators" for actual application test and UX evaluation do not fall under these Dell's capabilities. Spectraviews or CGs can and are meant to offer that kind of feature. GB-LED Dell's hardware CAN do that, but DCCS or Benq customized i1Profilers for LUT3D calibration do not provice (and WON'T) that feature (same for L*).

X-rite is already moving in that direction of mobile devices coor management (sadly... its very very very likely that will impose the use of profiles created with their tools, as they do on its limited and useles profile validation tools) when for years the only way to do that in a universal way (for cheap and expensive monitors) were ArgyllCMS&DispcalGUI (spectrophotomerter CCSS and then i1DisplayPro reading of native device behaviour with that CCSS spectral correction, i1Pro readings does not suffice)

Regarding the first question... I do not see the point of working with widegamut enviroments if not for printing, even a photo hobbist, at least at this point of time. I mean... you could web publish your hobby and tag JPEGs with embebdd profile AdobeRGB but: Firefox is not the most used browser and avalibility of widegamuts for hobbist like yours is limited.

The only reasonable motivations to own a widegamut are printing, DCIP3 cinema, rec709 with 2.35 gamma (EBU) because of HW calibration on a IPS panel of at least native 8bit resolution (which sRGB monitors with ACTUAL hardware calibration do not have, just 6bit+dithering),... or if avaliable, the feature of arbitrary device emulation.

OK, thanks, so here are the same charts choosing Relative colorimetric.

1) Native DCCS vs Native DCCS + DispCal profile

2) NAtive DCCS vs Custom DCCS (0.685,0.31, AdobeG, AdobeB)

Not sure what conclusions to draw in terms of which calibration & profiling is best.

DCCS' "Native" target is a WRONG choice for 99% of users. It's true that it aims for native gamut but also to native white (GB-LED white is a green-white @7000K, out of daylight locus). My advice is to set manually R,G,B xy coordinates, and your desired gamma in "Custom"  DCCS preset. I think that i posted a year ago how to get native RGB coords but as a summary: -open "driver's" ICM, if you did not overwrite it with a profile inspector (DispcalGUI, ... othe rtools). You're looking for examplo for "red iluminant relative xy" NOT "PCS relative" OR -run ArgyllCMS/dispcaGUI, USE RG_phosphor spectral correction (GBLED's spectra) and run a tools->uncalibrated report (i think that this is the option, I've not a DispaclGUI instalation right now). In its log file it will plot RGB+White+black XYZ coordinates. x=X/(X+Y+Z) y=y/(X+Y+Z) for each R,G,B primary Also remember that Firefox does not like "Table" profiles from DCCS, a "profile only" (DO NOT CALIBRATE, just make an ICM with current monitor's behaviour) + XYZLUT profile in dispcalgui will fix it.

I don't understand the point in doing all of that (going and trying to measure and custom enter the native primaries etc.)?

Just select Native Gamut on the RGB Primaries drop down menu and then just select D65 or manually enter .3127,.329 for White Point drop down menu in the Dell calibration software.

The probe might not get the measure quite on anyway. Just using the Dell menu to select native gamut insures the primaries are simply locked into max position for all.

Also I'm not sure why you are so concerned with avoiding ProphotoRGB and keep talking about 8 bit workflows. Who uses 8bit workflow for photo processing these days? That gives horrible results even with sRGB since any playing with tone curve or trying to pull shadows, rescue highlights won't work well.

One should edit photos in 16bit ProphotoRGB mode (in fact some programs like Lightroom basically force you to do that more or less, although it's technically Melissa that they use).

You don't want to set AdobeRGB mode on these since:

1. none of these can quite hit the AdobeRGB green primary

2. most of these wide gamut monitors can show more colors than AdobeRGB in other parts of the spectrum which can be really useful for stuff like deep purple flowers or intense fall foliage and such. AdobeRGB just clips away a chunk of the monitor's performance.

As far as graphics cards and 8bits and 10bits, that doesn't change the gamut that you can see at all. It just changed how fine the steps are between black and max signal of each primary so you get only 256 steps at 8bit but 1024 steps, over the same range, with a 10bit connection (few programs work 10bits properly and only pro graphics cards allow it).

Also for the monitors that have high bit internal LUTs especially if they are 3D or get programmed in highly linear fashion you don't want to use LUT type profile with them. You just want to do use DispCal+Argyl to make simple 1xGamma + matrix or 3xCurve+matrix profile types. So for stuff like the Dell UP2414Q don't make LUT profiles and for NEC PA series the same.

Regarding the first question... I do not see the point of working with widegamut enviroments if not for printing, even a photo hobbist, at least at this point of time.

????

You see no use in seeing sunsets, flowers, birds, tropical waters, gems, bright clothing much closer to true life??

You can't even get a simple red rose to look like a red rose if you stick to the sRGB emuation mode.

I mean... you could web publish your hobby and tag JPEGs with embebdd profile AdobeRGB but: Firefox is not the most used browser and avalibility of widegamuts for hobbist like yours is limited.

Safari,Firefox and Chrome all handle that just fine, IE is the only one that doesn't.

The only reasonable motivations to own a widegamut are printing, DCIP3 cinema, rec709 with 2.35 gamma (EBU) because of HW calibration on a IPS panel of at least native 8bit resolution (which sRGB monitors with ACTUAL hardware calibration do not have, just 6bit+dithering),... or if avaliable, the feature of arbitrary device emulation.

ridiculous

I don't understand the point in doing all of that?

Just select Native Gamut on the RGB Primaries drop down menu and then just select D65 or manually enter .3127,.329 for White Point drop down menu in the Dell calibration software.

The probe might not get the measure quite on anyway. Just using the Dell menu to select native gamut insures the primaries are simply locked into max position for all.

Also I'm not sure why you are so concerned with avoiding ProphotoRGB and keep talking about 8 bit workflows. Who uses 8bit workflow for photo processing these days? That gives horrible results even with sRGB since any playing with tone curve or trying to pull shadows, rescue highlights won't work well.

One should edit photos in 16bit ProphotoRGB mode (in fact some programs like Lightroom basically force you to do that more or less, although it's technically Melissa that they use).

You don't want to set AdobeRGB mode on these since:

1. none of these can quite hit the AdobeRGB green primary

2. most of these wide gamut monitors can show more colors than AdobeRGB in other parts of the spectrum which can be really useful for stuff like deep purple flowers or intense fall foliage and such. AdobeRGB just clips away a chunk of the monitor's performance.

As far as graphics cards and 8bits and 10bits, that doesn't change the gamut that you can see at all. It just changed how fine the steps are between black and max signal of each primary so you get only 256 steps at 8bit but 1024 steps, over the same range, with a 10bit connection (few programs work 10bits properly and only pro graphics cards allow it).

Your goal is flawled because you think in terms of "screen" gamut instead of printable gamut. It does not matter how big your DSLR colorspace is but printable.

Says who?

1. what if you are not printing but just looking on screen and with his 14MP screen and the cost and time of printing I'll be he simply views 1000x more images on screen than ever prints

2. even printers, while often much smaller in some areas than even sRGB are larger than even AdobeRGB in some areas

It does not matter how good LR 8bit dithering "you believe in"... the problem is grey coloration itself; the problem is the 100 levels between yellow and a superb magic printer with green sRGB coverage in 8bit native gamut (instead of 256 levels avaliable in reduced gamuts), and that 100 levels are in an ideal HW calibration scenario; the problem is that same problem I stated before applied to common high end printers with even lower gamut in such greens.

??

Your solution is bad for the two scenarios because dell monitor have NOT the feature of arbitrary profile emulation like spectraviews or CG coloredges, so all three limitations explained above apply, plus the limitations from non HW calibration, plus nvidias banding if applies in your workstation.

The Dell UP screens do have programmable primaries and high bit internal 3D LUTs.

And what does setting native gamut on the Dell have to do with anything? WHy in the world would you want to set it to AdobeRGB emulation which it doesn't even quite reach for green mostly likely and which clips away some of the performance.

I mean, you have a problem, a serious problem solved nicely with Windows systems with 150euro GPU hardware (Quadro/Firepros win 10bit on Windows), or for free with limited gamuts (with some limitations), but some people keep on that weird idea of hiding them behind the carpet.

unless you are doing like graphics design with zero dither, in which you'd see banding potentially even in sRGB anyway, what is the extreme fear of native gamut in 8bit driven mode by the graphics card? It's much easier to notice the colors clipped away by AdobeRGB than to notice 8bit vs 10bit banding differences in natural images. And since these screens have internal LUT you do get the full 8bits without any lost values.

Let's says that your limited image quality solution "is good enough" for you, but at least explain the limitations (serious ones) of that kind of solutions. Native widegamut's gamuts in 8bit workflow scenarios have serious drawbacks, and some (very particular and limited indeed... spcially with these Dell monitors, ol' U2711 and newer ones) situations in which may be useful. And that drawbacks need to be told to people with less color management expertise.

total nonsense, you'd be hard pressed to spot the larger steps between native gamut and sRGB nevermind between native gamut and adobergb which I doubt anyone could even notice at all, but the missing colors almost anyone could notice if the shot contained them.

@Deinonychus4

Your lack of understanding is astonishing...

-AdobeRGB vs GB-LED green in dE2000

-8bit workflow is NOT bits in images, learn this first, then talk without being ridiculous. Were are talking about of hardware.

-monitors cannot show "spectrum" colors, you do not understand even the basics. Learn first were are spectral colors in a chromaticity diagram, maybe you learn something

You know nothing about this

Just select Native Gamut on the RGB Primaries drop down menu and then just select D65 or manually enter .3127,.329 for White Point drop down menu in the Dell calibration software.

Because my jester fool, Native preset in DCCS does not allow to do that, at least DCCS 1.5.3. 1.5.7 is buggy and has corrupt test fot locallizations other than english.

Native preset aims for TRUE NATIVE, but grey neutralized.

By the way XYZLUT gibes you lower dE against self profile validation

The Dell UP screens do have programmable primaries and high bit internal 3D LUTs.

As said before your lack of knowledge is astonishing.YOu do not even know the basics...
Learn first what is PROFILE EMULATION in realtime, DCCS fix gamut, a few sleectable gammas and neutralize to desired white. But this is not profile emulation... because with DCCS you cannot emulate other devices because if these restrictions

Lossing grey levels is what you suggest, banding in every gradient. Spotted by sight