Great discussion, wish we could all sit at lunch to discuss and learn.
So is sound like Saltgrass is hearing what I am hearing... not full separation between left and right, but yes, some separation. For many things this is fine and works well enough.
But there are times when one does not want that, and wants to listen in the true exact stereo of the original recording.
Or, and was the case when I discovered this issue, playing back split tracks. (vocals on on channel, music on the other. Used for rehearsals, kids' performances, etc.)
I will need to read up on getting back to a native driver. I did try going to task manager and closing Waves and Realtek. Same issue.
tvaudioman, maybe another way to go. I have a Bose Bluetooth headset and I can do the same channel check with them and I do not hear the other channel. These are not the less expensive version and go over the ears.
I assume because the sound does not come through the combined audio port it is not exposed to the same connection configuration. Unless the quality of the speakers helps limit the sound on the other channel.
Working with someone, whom I've never met. He is an audio/video engineer. We were having casual conversation about something unrelated, and he mentioned he has a Dell XPS (and likes the touchscreen). My ears perked up and I said "You said you have a Windows 10 Dell, I've got a question for you... when listening to headphones..."
He then instantly cut me off and said "yes, there's something off, it sounds like it's phasing and the separation is messed up..."
He's done some test as well, same results as me. He had some headphones that could be Bluetooth or cabled. Bluetooth mode sounded great, but when cabled from 1/8" sounded messed up with the issues.
I've used same headphones, which have been tested and work properly on other devices. This co-worker today was using a pair of headphones of his own. Bose. They work fine with Bluetooth, not with cable. And even with music the sound of the phasing was noticeable and annoying to listen to. He said he can't listen to music with the cable because it's so annoying. Bluetooth sounds great.
We went all through the Waves Maxx Audio settings, etc and they made not difference.
The headphones I've used, and cross checked on other gear, are not cheap. maybe not the most expensive, but retail for $150, $130, $350, etc.
The experience today was with someone I had never met, and without me saying anything about what my issue was with the sound, is having the same exact issues.
I think what you are seeing is because the speakers do not pick up low volume sounds as the headsets do. Remember, I mentioned my expensive Bluetooth Bose headset does not produce the sounds from the opposite channel. I tried a cheap version and I could hear some channel cross talk although it was very faint.
Be aware the latest updates may have also made some changes. I am seeing some dialogs being changed such as the headphones have a Test option on the context menu as opposed to having to go into properties and Configure... and a spatial sound option.
Spatial setting is on the right click menu from the speaker icon.
The combined audio port seems to be at the root of the problem. I can tell you, when using a basic headset, I can hear even data transmissions which sound like a hard drive seeking. I am currently using my Bose headset with a cable and cannot hear the other channel (Quiet Comfort 35). I do not have an expensive wired headset, except the Bluetooth version which can use a cable.
Maybe the update today will help... fingers crossed. But I was really hopeful a $350 wired headset would compensate for the crosstalk.
Mine does not have a "Spatial" setting. It has an "Enhancements" tab under properties. but nothing is selected.
I now have all the updates from Windows and using the latest from Realtek. The cross talk is still there for a normal headset, although very weak and distorted.
The combined audio port seems to be at the root of the problem.
The Linux test proved that the combo jack hardware is okay, so do think the jack is the cause of the issue in another way?
@tvaudioman
Thanks for the link to the usb installer. It put my Puppy Linux on a usb drive easy peasy.
@ to both, do any of the Waves effects come through the Bluetooth headphones? Bluetooth audio used to be entirely separate from the integrated audio. I'm curious to know if, on the new models, the signal is being run through Waves before being transmitted to the Bluetooth headphones.
I'm curious because the signal is digital, and doesn't become analog until passed through the converters inside the headphones. Historically, digital signal paths have been kept pure until right before being converted, so if Dell is now injecting Waves processing into the signal earlier, that is new and not welcome news. On the other hand, if the signal bypasses the Realtek/Waves software like it should, then that would be the reason there are no artifacts in the Bluetooth headphones.
Great question about the Bluetooth headphones and Waves, I will try to find out... the co-worker was passing thru town, don't have his info, but will try to track it down.
Saltgrass, thanks for that image, I was looking in the wrong place... but mine does not have the "spatial sound" option.
My Realtek driver is 6.0.18029 12/28/2016
Which version are you using and how did you go about loading?
@jimco, it appears the Waves options are greyed out when using a Bluetooth headset.
Is the bleed over strictly the combined port? It may not be that simple since my inexpensive, in the ear, Bluetooth could still hear some, not much, of the other channel. A more expensive Beats in the ear Bluetooth headset could not hear the other channel.
On the "dimension" screen, there is on/off. Off mode definitely reduces the affect, though does not go away completely.
@tvaudioman, here is a thread started by an Inspiron 7779 owner who also has MaxxAudio Pro, with problems with the dimension effect. He/she wrote, "i have no enhancements on except the waves maxxaudio pro forces the dimesion surrond sound on. even if i click it off it still is enabled and will turn right back on."
Perhaps that thread is not pertinent to this discussion, but I found it interesting. Something else I found out this a.m. is that. Waves has an effect plug-in (NX) that only affects the headphone's stereo image, but not the speakers. Makes me wonder if they got their wires crossed somewhere along the line.
I have seen the NX plug-in. I reached out to Waves about this, asking for more info, etc. Their response was I had to contact the computer manufacturer.
I bought a RadioShack Gigaware USB to headphone adapter. Sound is noticeably different between it and the computer's headphone jack. Same headphones, same song, and same "Left/Right" test track.
tvaudioman
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April 17th, 2017 14:00
Great discussion, wish we could all sit at lunch to discuss and learn.
So is sound like Saltgrass is hearing what I am hearing... not full separation between left and right, but yes, some separation. For many things this is fine and works well enough.
But there are times when one does not want that, and wants to listen in the true exact stereo of the original recording.
Or, and was the case when I discovered this issue, playing back split tracks. (vocals on on channel, music on the other. Used for rehearsals, kids' performances, etc.)
I will need to read up on getting back to a native driver. I did try going to task manager and closing Waves and Realtek. Same issue.
Saltgrass
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April 17th, 2017 15:00
tvaudioman, maybe another way to go. I have a Bose Bluetooth headset and I can do the same channel check with them and I do not hear the other channel. These are not the less expensive version and go over the ears.
I assume because the sound does not come through the combined audio port it is not exposed to the same connection configuration. Unless the quality of the speakers helps limit the sound on the other channel.
tvaudioman
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April 25th, 2017 18:00
well this happened today...
Working with someone, whom I've never met. He is an audio/video engineer. We were having casual conversation about something unrelated, and he mentioned he has a Dell XPS (and likes the touchscreen). My ears perked up and I said "You said you have a Windows 10 Dell, I've got a question for you... when listening to headphones..."
He then instantly cut me off and said "yes, there's something off, it sounds like it's phasing and the separation is messed up..."
He's done some test as well, same results as me. He had some headphones that could be Bluetooth or cabled. Bluetooth mode sounded great, but when cabled from 1/8" sounded messed up with the issues.
tvaudioman
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April 25th, 2017 19:00
I've used same headphones, which have been tested and work properly on other devices. This co-worker today was using a pair of headphones of his own. Bose. They work fine with Bluetooth, not with cable. And even with music the sound of the phasing was noticeable and annoying to listen to. He said he can't listen to music with the cable because it's so annoying. Bluetooth sounds great.
We went all through the Waves Maxx Audio settings, etc and they made not difference.
The headphones I've used, and cross checked on other gear, are not cheap. maybe not the most expensive, but retail for $150, $130, $350, etc.
The experience today was with someone I had never met, and without me saying anything about what my issue was with the sound, is having the same exact issues.
Where is this "spatial" setting?
Saltgrass
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4.3K Posts
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April 25th, 2017 19:00
I think what you are seeing is because the speakers do not pick up low volume sounds as the headsets do. Remember, I mentioned my expensive Bluetooth Bose headset does not produce the sounds from the opposite channel. I tried a cheap version and I could hear some channel cross talk although it was very faint.
Be aware the latest updates may have also made some changes. I am seeing some dialogs being changed such as the headphones have a Test option on the context menu as opposed to having to go into properties and Configure... and a spatial sound option.
Saltgrass
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4.3K Posts
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April 25th, 2017 20:00
Spatial setting is on the right click menu from the speaker icon.
The combined audio port seems to be at the root of the problem. I can tell you, when using a basic headset, I can hear even data transmissions which sound like a hard drive seeking. I am currently using my Bose headset with a cable and cannot hear the other channel (Quiet Comfort 35). I do not have an expensive wired headset, except the Bluetooth version which can use a cable.
Maybe the update today will help... fingers crossed. But I was really hopeful a $350 wired headset would compensate for the crosstalk.
tvaudioman
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April 25th, 2017 20:00
Mine does not have a "Spatial" setting. It has an "Enhancements" tab under properties. but nothing is selected.
Saltgrass
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April 25th, 2017 21:00
I now have all the updates from Windows and using the latest from Realtek. The cross talk is still there for a normal headset, although very weak and distorted.
Jim Coates
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April 26th, 2017 06:00
The Linux test proved that the combo jack hardware is okay, so do think the jack is the cause of the issue in another way?
@tvaudioman
Thanks for the link to the usb installer. It put my Puppy Linux on a usb drive easy peasy.
@ to both, do any of the Waves effects come through the Bluetooth headphones? Bluetooth audio used to be entirely separate from the integrated audio. I'm curious to know if, on the new models, the signal is being run through Waves before being transmitted to the Bluetooth headphones.
I'm curious because the signal is digital, and doesn't become analog until passed through the converters inside the headphones. Historically, digital signal paths have been kept pure until right before being converted, so if Dell is now injecting Waves processing into the signal earlier, that is new and not welcome news. On the other hand, if the signal bypasses the Realtek/Waves software like it should, then that would be the reason there are no artifacts in the Bluetooth headphones.
tvaudioman
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April 26th, 2017 08:00
Great question about the Bluetooth headphones and Waves, I will try to find out... the co-worker was passing thru town, don't have his info, but will try to track it down.
Saltgrass, thanks for that image, I was looking in the wrong place... but mine does not have the "spatial sound" option.
My Realtek driver is 6.0.18029 12/28/2016
Which version are you using and how did you go about loading?
thanks
Saltgrass
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4.3K Posts
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April 26th, 2017 09:00
@jimco, it appears the Waves options are greyed out when using a Bluetooth headset.
Is the bleed over strictly the combined port? It may not be that simple since my inexpensive, in the ear, Bluetooth could still hear some, not much, of the other channel. A more expensive Beats in the ear Bluetooth headset could not hear the other channel.
Jim Coates
4 Operator
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13.6K Posts
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April 30th, 2017 08:00
@tvaudioman, here is a thread started by an Inspiron 7779 owner who also has MaxxAudio Pro, with problems with the dimension effect. He/she wrote, "i have no enhancements on except the waves maxxaudio pro forces the dimesion surrond sound on. even if i click it off it still is enabled and will turn right back on."
Perhaps that thread is not pertinent to this discussion, but I found it interesting. Something else I found out this a.m. is that. Waves has an effect plug-in (NX) that only affects the headphone's stereo image, but not the speakers. Makes me wonder if they got their wires crossed somewhere along the line.
tvaudioman
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April 30th, 2017 12:00
Thanks for link to Thread.
I have seen the NX plug-in. I reached out to Waves about this, asking for more info, etc. Their response was I had to contact the computer manufacturer.
I bought a RadioShack Gigaware USB to headphone adapter. Sound is noticeably different between it and the computer's headphone jack. Same headphones, same song, and same "Left/Right" test track.
https://www.radioshack.com/products/gigaware-3-5mm-to-usb-adapter?gclid=CjwKEAjwlpbIBRCx4eT8l9W26igSJAAuQ_HGq4fhoWvcU5xEUDVMSUUcYKRyxpbqY_Hk5HLbswKgUhoCb3bw_wcB