Yeah, I know that, belive me. I've mentioned that I don't have "Panel Self Refresh" option in Intel Graphics Settings and that's the problem. That's how it looks (on my current driver ver. 20.19.15.5058):
https://i.imgur.com/JTYTtBa.png and that's how it should look:
https://i.imgur.com/TNSytob.png
Yeah, I know that, belive me. I've mentioned that I don't have "Panel Self Refresh" option in Intel Graphics Settings and that's the problem. That's how it looks (on my current driver ver. 20.19.15.5058):
https://i.imgur.com/JTYTtBa.png and that's how it should look:
https://i.imgur.com/TNSytob.png
I've got Dell e7450 with Intel HD5500 and FullHD IPS display. When I'm on battery, the screen starts to flicker at about 60%-65% of charge. Below ~50% the notebook is unusable, because the screen is almost still black.
I've done some research and I think that Intel Panel Self-Refresh technology is causing the problem. But the real problem is that I can't disable it! I've tried many versions of drivers, both from Dell and Intel directly and I don't have Panel Self-Refresh option in Power settings in Intel Control Panel in none of them. I've got a friend with the same notebook and his got this option using same version of drivers with same OS. I even did a format and change OS from Windows 10 x64 to Windows 7 x64, but I still can't disable PSR.
It's a huge problem, because my usable battery life is only half of what it supposed to be :(
Thanks for the information you have provided and the screenshots. Despite being in Polish the differences between the screenshots are very clear. I am unsure it this is a coincidence but our XPS users have noted that certain versions of the Intel graphics have removed options for advanced colour settings.
Before we begin troubleshooting, we need to determine if this issue is hardware or software related, or perhaps both.
To determine if the issue is hardware related, can you help out with the following details - a) Does the screen flickering only occur on battery? b) Is it only seen once the battery reaches a certain threshold? c) Can you run the battery down to about 50% and the shut the system down to off. Now hold down the D key and power on the laptop. It should cycle through a series of colours - Are the colours displayed perfectly or do you have the same flickering and mostly black screen? d) Can you connect up the ac adaptor and run the exact same test - Are the colours displayed perfectly or do you have the same flickering and mostly black screen?
What version of the BIOS and the Intel graphics driver are you running?
Thank you very much for your answer! About your questions:
a) Yes, it only occurs on battery, b) Yes, it starts when battery level reaches 65%, c) On ~40% battery I have run the test and flickering occured only in the very begging, for about 1sec when the first white screen appeared, then all the color were displayed perfectly during few cycles, d) On ~40 On ~40% battery with connected AC adaptor the test worked all perfectly, without single flicker.
Video BIOS version: 1039.18 Intel graphic driver version: 20.19.15.5058 System BIOS version: A20
Thank you very much for your answer! About your questions:
a) Yes, it only occurs on battery, b) Yes, it starts when battery level reaches 65%, c) On ~40% battery I have run the test and flickering occured only in the very begging, for about 1sec when the first white screen appeared, then all the color were displayed perfectly during few cycles, d) On ~40 On ~40% battery with connected AC adaptor the test worked all perfectly, without single flicker.
Video BIOS version: 1039.18 Intel graphic driver version: 20.19.15.5058 System BIOS version: A20
@nillkin1 thanks for the update. As this issue happens across multiple driver versions from both Intel and ourselves, and another OS, that would suggest the issue could be related to the BIOS update.
This BIOS, A20, was released 30th October last year and the graphics driver was released 10th January
a) When did you update the BIOS? b) When did you update the graphics driver? c) For how long has this issue been happening? d) What BIOS revision is your colleague on? e) Do you have access to an external monitor, if so, is the flickering also seen on the external monitor during use?
I'll drop you a private message to get your tag details from you.
a), b) I did update all drivers. bios, etc. about a week ago c) The issue have been happening since I got a laptop - about 6 months, I bought refurbished one d) He's on A16 revision e) I did a test and the flickering is only seen on laptop screen Thanks a lot!
@nillkin1 wrote:
a), b) I did update all drivers. bios, etc. about a week ago c) The issue have been happening since I got a laptop - about 6 months, I bought refurbished one d) He's on A16 revision e) I did a test and the flickering is only seen on laptop screen Thanks a lot!
@nillkin1 as the issues were present before the BIOS and driver updates, I suspect the issue is more hardware related rather than software.
The issue I have is identifying exactly what component is causing the issue. For video issues such as this you would be looking at the main components i.e lcd, motherboard , lcd cable. As the issue only happens on the lcd but not external video that potentially rules out the motherboard. Logic would suggest that the LCD is the failing component, however the issue is not present during the LCD test. That would suggest that the issue potentially lies with the battery or the battery cable.
Are you able to test your colleagues battery in this system to see if the fault still occurs?
Unfortunately I can't test his battery and I don't have physical access to any other Dell e7450.
Before I'll start worrying about hardware issues and possible parts replacement, I want to disable Panel Self-Refresh. It's mentioned in many topics on-line with similar/same problem and disabling this feature helped many people. I'm 100% sure that my laptop has this feature enabled. Can you help me with this exact thing? I can do BIOS/drivers downgrade or some registry value changes, I'm just looking for precise information, because I'm tired of running around in fog. When I use generic Windows graphic driver there is no problem with any flickering.
I'll really appreciate help and thanks for your time
Unfortunately I can't test his battery and I don't have physical access to any other Dell e7450.
Before I'll start worrying about hardware issues and possible parts replacement, I want to disable Panel Self-Refresh. It's mentioned in many topics on-line with similar/same problem and disabling this feature helped many people. I'm 100% sure that my laptop has this feature enabled. Can you help me with this exact thing? I can do BIOS/drivers downgrade or some registry value changes, I'm just looking for precise information, because I'm tired of running around in fog. When I use generic Windows graphic driver there is no problem with any flickering.
I'll really appreciate help and thanks for your time
@nillkin1 it appears that panel self refresh has been removed in one of the BIOS updates. I spoke to one of my colleagues in engineering and there is no mention from the BIOS logs as to why it was removed. They have recommended not downgrading the BIOS to previous versions as the updates 17 - 20 contain many fixes for microprocessor vulnerabilities and other security related issues. These are outlined on each BIOS update on the support pages.
Having discussed the symptoms further with them, we don't believe the the panel refresh issues are causing the flickering. It's been 2 years and numerous updates since BIOS A16, if the BIOS removing panel self refresh was causing this we would be aware of it as customers with an E7450 that updated their BIOS during that time period would have told us about it. This leads us to believe that you have a hardware fault, possibly with the battery not producing enough power once it's capacity has dropped below 65%.
Thanks a lot! Even if it's not recommended - I've downgraded bios to A16 and graphics driver to 20.19.15.4285, but still I don't have Panel Self-Refresh option in Intel Graphics Control Panel. It's same configuration as my colleague have and he's got it. Have you got any more ideas about what should I do to finally be able to decide about Panel Self-Refresh?
Thanks a lot! Even if it's not recommended - I've downgraded bios to A16 and graphics driver to 20.19.15.4285, but still I don't have Panel Self-Refresh option in Intel Graphics Control Panel. It's same configuration as my colleague have and he's got it. Have you got any more ideas about what should I do to finally be able to decide about Panel Self-Refresh?
That's strange how rolling back the BIOS has not returned the feature. Have you tried rolling back the graphics driver also?
As mentioned previously, we don't believe the panel refresh option is the cause of the fault. Having that option returned is unlikely to fix the issue.
I suggested raising it with engineering however as the system does not have a valid warranty, there is no business case to investigate it further. This also ties in with the theory that the issues are unrelated.
I rolled back graphics driver back to 15.36.23.4251 (10.18.14.4251) from Intel download center. I can't find older versions of drivers on Dell Support website. Is there any way to download them? I understand it's unlikely to fix the issue, but just to be sure about it and feel good, I want to see Panel Self-Refresh option on my screen and disable it, and I don't understand why I can't. We even can consider it as separate issue now. I'm looking forward to solving it, thanks :)
@nillkin1 wrote:
I rolled back graphics driver back to 15.36.23.4251 (10.18.14.4251) from Intel download center. I can't find older versions of drivers on Dell Support website. Is there any way to download them? I understand it's unlikely to fix the issue, but just to be sure about it and feel good, I want to see Panel Self-Refresh option on my screen and disable it, and I don't understand why I can't. We even can consider it as separate issue now. I'm looking forward to solving it, thanks :)
@nillkin1 we don't recommend rolling back the graphics drivers for the same reason that we don't recommend rolling back the BIOS. The updates have been provided to address security vulnerabilities and we suggest updating to the latest versions.
As stated above, both myself and engineering don't believe the issue with your screen is related to the panel self refresh option. There is nothing to be gained by them investigating it further.
JOcean
9 Legend
•
12.6K Posts
0
January 21st, 2019 13:00
Good research on your part and it appears to be a not uncommon problem.
https://forums.intel.com/s/question/0D50P0000490UxnSAE/panel-self-refresh-causes-stutters-in-win10?language=en_US
nillkin1
10 Posts
0
January 21st, 2019 17:00
nillkin1
10 Posts
0
January 21st, 2019 17:00
nillkin1
10 Posts
0
January 22nd, 2019 01:00
Yeah, I know that, belive me. I mentioned that I don't have "Panel Self-Refresh" option in Intel Graphics Control Panel.
Dell-Alan D
3 Apprentice
•
1.2K Posts
0
January 22nd, 2019 07:00
Hi @nillkin1,
Thanks for the information you have provided and the screenshots. Despite being in Polish the differences between the screenshots are very clear. I am unsure it this is a coincidence but our XPS users have noted that certain versions of the Intel graphics have removed options for advanced colour settings.
Before we begin troubleshooting, we need to determine if this issue is hardware or software related, or perhaps both.
To determine if the issue is hardware related, can you help out with the following details -
a) Does the screen flickering only occur on battery?
b) Is it only seen once the battery reaches a certain threshold?
c) Can you run the battery down to about 50% and the shut the system down to off. Now hold down the D key and power on the laptop. It should cycle through a series of colours - Are the colours displayed perfectly or do you have the same flickering and mostly black screen?
d) Can you connect up the ac adaptor and run the exact same test - Are the colours displayed perfectly or do you have the same flickering and mostly black screen?
What version of the BIOS and the Intel graphics driver are you running?
Alan
nillkin1
10 Posts
0
January 22nd, 2019 17:00
Thank you very much for your answer! About your questions:
a) Yes, it only occurs on battery,
b) Yes, it starts when battery level reaches 65%,
c) On ~40% battery I have run the test and flickering occured only in the very begging, for about 1sec when the first white screen appeared, then all the color were displayed perfectly during few cycles,
d) On ~40 On ~40% battery with connected AC adaptor the test worked all perfectly, without single flicker.
Video BIOS version: 1039.18
Intel graphic driver version: 20.19.15.5058
System BIOS version: A20
Dell-Alan D
3 Apprentice
•
1.2K Posts
0
January 23rd, 2019 01:00
@nillkin1 thanks for the update. As this issue happens across multiple driver versions from both Intel and ourselves, and another OS, that would suggest the issue could be related to the BIOS update.
This BIOS, A20, was released 30th October last year and the graphics driver was released 10th January
a) When did you update the BIOS?
b) When did you update the graphics driver?
c) For how long has this issue been happening?
d) What BIOS revision is your colleague on?
e) Do you have access to an external monitor, if so, is the flickering also seen on the external monitor during use?
I'll drop you a private message to get your tag details from you.
Alan
nillkin1
10 Posts
0
January 23rd, 2019 15:00
Dell-Alan D
3 Apprentice
•
1.2K Posts
0
January 24th, 2019 05:00
@nillkin1 as the issues were present before the BIOS and driver updates, I suspect the issue is more hardware related rather than software.
The issue I have is identifying exactly what component is causing the issue. For video issues such as this you would be looking at the main components i.e lcd, motherboard , lcd cable. As the issue only happens on the lcd but not external video that potentially rules out the motherboard. Logic would suggest that the LCD is the failing component, however the issue is not present during the LCD test. That would suggest that the issue potentially lies with the battery or the battery cable.
Are you able to test your colleagues battery in this system to see if the fault still occurs?
Alan
nillkin1
10 Posts
0
January 24th, 2019 05:00
Unfortunately I can't test his battery and I don't have physical access to any other Dell e7450.
Before I'll start worrying about hardware issues and possible parts replacement, I want to disable Panel Self-Refresh. It's mentioned in many topics on-line with similar/same problem and disabling this feature helped many people. I'm 100% sure that my laptop has this feature enabled. Can you help me with this exact thing? I can do BIOS/drivers downgrade or some registry value changes, I'm just looking for precise information, because I'm tired of running around in fog. When I use generic Windows graphic driver there is no problem with any flickering.
I'll really appreciate help and thanks for your time
Dell-Alan D
3 Apprentice
•
1.2K Posts
0
January 24th, 2019 07:00
@nillkin1 it appears that panel self refresh has been removed in one of the BIOS updates. I spoke to one of my colleagues in engineering and there is no mention from the BIOS logs as to why it was removed. They have recommended not downgrading the BIOS to previous versions as the updates 17 - 20 contain many fixes for microprocessor vulnerabilities and other security related issues. These are outlined on each BIOS update on the support pages.
Having discussed the symptoms further with them, we don't believe the the panel refresh issues are causing the flickering. It's been 2 years and numerous updates since BIOS A16, if the BIOS removing panel self refresh was causing this we would be aware of it as customers with an E7450 that updated their BIOS during that time period would have told us about it. This leads us to believe that you have a hardware fault, possibly with the battery not producing enough power once it's capacity has dropped below 65%.
Alan
nillkin1
10 Posts
0
January 25th, 2019 05:00
Thanks a lot! Even if it's not recommended - I've downgraded bios to A16 and graphics driver to 20.19.15.4285, but still I don't have Panel Self-Refresh option in Intel Graphics Control Panel. It's same configuration as my colleague have and he's got it. Have you got any more ideas about what should I do to finally be able to decide about Panel Self-Refresh?
Dell-Alan D
3 Apprentice
•
1.2K Posts
0
January 25th, 2019 07:00
That's strange how rolling back the BIOS has not returned the feature. Have you tried rolling back the graphics driver also?
As mentioned previously, we don't believe the panel refresh option is the cause of the fault. Having that option returned is unlikely to fix the issue.
I suggested raising it with engineering however as the system does not have a valid warranty, there is no business case to investigate it further. This also ties in with the theory that the issues are unrelated.
Alan
nillkin1
10 Posts
0
January 28th, 2019 15:00
Dell-Alan D
3 Apprentice
•
1.2K Posts
0
January 29th, 2019 01:00
@nillkin1 we don't recommend rolling back the graphics drivers for the same reason that we don't recommend rolling back the BIOS. The updates have been provided to address security vulnerabilities and we suggest updating to the latest versions.
As stated above, both myself and engineering don't believe the issue with your screen is related to the panel self refresh option. There is nothing to be gained by them investigating it further.
Alan