Things we need to do regarding this problem (based on recent posts):
New edits in color.
Keep our machines cool and free of dust.
Do NOT update bios past version A35, as A36 and A37 cause operation at elevated temperatures.
Do not leave CDs/DVDs in the drive when not in use. This contributes to excess heat in the weak area of the system board.
Allow notebook to gradually come to room temperature when taking to or bringing from outside when temperature is excessively cold or hot. Avoid rapid thermal stress as much as possible.
If out of warranty, use i8KfanGUI for better tradeoff between dust and operating temps. (I found 'floor' temp by letting CPU temp settle at idle and fan on slow, then setting 'off' temp to 'floor' plus 4-degC, 'off to slow' temp 4-degC higher, and 'slow to high' temp 4-degC above that. This is currently floor=32, profile=36/40/44-degC on my machine, and is pretty optimum for me; adjust to your preference. Be aware that 'floor' temp depends on dust buildup and room temp, so check it periodically, especially with change of seasons. Another benefit of this or similar fan profile is temp swings are minimized, reducing thermal stress on the board.)
Watch fan operation/temps when using standby or hibernate. (Known issue. Many have reported problems resuming operation. I have observed elevated temperatures in standby. If suspect a problem, try "fn-Z" or reboot to get fans working properly again. To be safe, just shut down when practical.)
Use a cooling pad to maximize air flow underneath the notebook. If an active pad with fans, make sure the cooling pad air flow enhances the native air flow of the notebook.
Handle the notebook carefully when inserting or removing from the carrying case. Avoid excess pressure or torque near the DVD drive area.
Avoid undue pressure on keyboard, touchpad, and palm rest until we know exactly where the problem is. Use external devices if practical. Use your machines normally, but just be a little careful: Keep a light touch, and use only on a flat hard surface. Try not to lean on the palm rest.
Keep all plastics and daughter boards properly seated, and make sure all screws are in place and snug - but don't overtighten.
Periodically re-seat the system board. Loosen and re-tighten all mounting screws to adjust for warpage over time. Do not overtighten.
Be cautious and observant when updating to XP-SP2. (There is still a remote possibility of a link there. Cluster of failures at time of release of A36/A37 and SP2 is still suspicious to me, albeit I'm a lone voice in the wilderness :-)
Keep working with Dell for a resolution of defective motherboards. If under warranty, get 'em replaced. If out, complain to customer service or higher.
Start collecting and organizing data for possible class action.
Issue complaints with consumer organizations, such as BBB and Consumers Union.
Write letters of complaint to editors of trade magazines (PC, PCWorld, EDN, ED, Computer Shopper, etc.).
Contact your state and federal legislators urging a 'lemon law' for consumer electronic equipment.
If out of warranty, carefully examine system boards and connecting wires/cables for physical or thermal damage and report details to the rest of us. (While I appreciate Joe's perspective, possible repair information should not be a 'trade secret'.)
If purchase a replacement board or use a repair service like Joe's, keep all records for possible recovery of your expenses.
Don't forget to check with credit card company for possible coverage or warranty extension if you purchased through them. (Great tip, dodgedude.)
$ome enterpri$ing entrepreneur $hould buy up returned board$ from Dell, repair them, and $ell them at a rea$onable price.
Establish an independent web site for further communications.
I really hope this is a one time deal and that those of us who have sent our machines out for repair are all set. I wouldn't be very happy if this happens again in a few months.
Joe, let me get this straight... the heat is damaging the motherboard, then the pressure of touching (palm rest, "C" door, Memory door, CD-ROM tray) is causing something that is already broken (caused by overheating maybe a short on the MB) the reboot issue? that's what I've gathered. Oh, DSP... I just want to rule out Windows (XP, SP2) completely as my problem started when I was running linux. :)
I think Joe has a point about the heat thing. Now that I think about it, the case was pretty sturdy when I got it (same with the 1100) but sometimes the case would feel hot and now it seems like it's weaker in strength then when I first got it (tends to bend more and make contact with something). Maybe the overheating causes the strength of the case to weaken thus causing multiple catalysts for the unexpected shut down. Maybe I should buy the motherboard from Dell as well as the case (if they sell that) and see what happens.
As far as the independent website, I can't devote my all to running it but maybe if a couple of us got together to set it up/run it, I'm game. I know it might be too late for a number of us to remedy the problem before it gets too far but at least we could help out those who still have a chance by creating this website.
D, I don't want to push too hard on the SP2 thing. Just want to keep it alive as one of several possible causes. I really suspect that there may be multiple causes of this problem, making it so intractable.
I've had my 5150 since Jan and I've blown out the heat sink every week since then. I haven't had the problem yet, CPU running 35 C at idle still.
In your experience, do you think that we may be able to avoid the problem from ever occurring if we continue to keep the heat sink dust free and CPU temps down? Or, do you think even low heat levels over a long period of time will eventually cause the motherboard component to fail? Or, is this problem not even related to the CPU temperature itself?
Message Edited by Rybo Flavin on 11-16-2004 02:02 PM
I don't think it's directly related to the "5100 Shut Down" problem as I vacuumed by laptop inside out and it didn't fix it as the article seems to suggest it should.
"In your experience, do you think that we may be able to avoid the problem from ever occurring if we continue to keep the heat sink dust free and CPU temps down? Or, do you think even low heat levels over a long period of time will eventually cause the motherboard component to fail? Or, is this problem not even related to the CPU temperature itself?"
If we continue to see a growing amount of repairs come in, I'll have a good understanding of this problem in about 30 maybe 40 days. To answer your question, YES. Consistent cooling system maintenance is the #1 way to avoid the possibility of this happening. I cannot say for sure, but I am certain it will help.
Also, movement / shock during operation or "power on" states could also promote the problem.
"I initially thought that was the problem with my computer and it's been very helpful in the operation of my computer. But it does not explain how closing the CD tray would cause the shut down."
If the excessive heat damages/melts/degrades electrical components, then it is possible that by applying pressure to the affected component, the system will shut off, etc. Heat and electronics don't mix...lot's of weird things can happen.
Message Edited by Rybo Flavin on 11-16-2004 02:10 PM
I initially thought that was the problem with my computer and it's been very helpful in the operation of my computer. But it does not explain how closing the CD tray would cause the shut down.
Well, talk about timing. Dell support just sent me this:
"Thank you for your time and co-operation for carrying out the
requested troubleshooting. I understand that it is a strange
and intermittent problem.
Rich, I found that systems may shut down due to clogged fans
or cooling vents. To resolve a system shutdown or processor throttling,
use some type of forced air (ie: a can of compressed air) to
blow into the fan vent on the bottom vent and the two cooling
vents located on the back and side of the computer.
The problem appears to start just like the 5100 shutdown problem. The 5150's motherboard components are effected by this excessive heat unlike with the majority of the 5100 that didn't. So, it's along the same lines as the 5100 problem, but the 5150's are having a terribly negative side effect from the heat.
"The problem appears to start just like the 5100 shutdown problem. The 5150's motherboard components are effected by this excessive heat unlike with the majority of the 5100 that didn't. So, it's along the same lines as the 5100 problem, but the 5150's are having a terribly negative side effect from the heat.
It's kind of like a domino effect."
Joe,
Thank you for replying. That's exactly what I was reading into the problem based off of all of the information that has been posted over the last year. You've been extremely helpful and hopefully this will keep everyone from trying to re-invent the wheel.
No - we should not be doing anything but waiting on Dell to take action for those within warranty AND without. I have already had my fixed but I am scared because I am not so sure I am going to be able to pay the 80 dollars offered to extend my warranty here next month. If this problem crops up again I think Dell should be willing to fix or replace the model at no cost. It's not our problem that this is happening to ALL of us. I have my fingers crossed Dell does the right thing here
I bought one of those fan pads and the way the 5150s are designed, they're too big for them (the Targus one anyway). Depending on where you seat the laptop, the fans cancel each other out so you have to figure out the best spot for it. Like I said earlier, it doesn't make a noticeable difference. I was on my computer with the cool pad activated and with it off and there was no overall change in temperature. I could be wrong. The fans on the cooling pads do draw air away from the underside of the computer (it isn't as hot to the touch) but the CPU/HDD temp stays around the same temperature as if I didn't have it at all.
I have to admit that I feel a little safer as keeping it on the cooling pad as it keeps the underside of the laptop from making contact with surfaces which previously caused problems (C panel touching the table shuts it off, etc).
dspman
306 Posts
0
November 16th, 2004 15:00
New edits in color.
SEE 11-28-04 RE-POST FOR UPDATES
Message Edited by dspman on 11-28-2004 05:23 PM
threepointonefo
39 Posts
0
November 16th, 2004 16:00
aznman43
62 Posts
0
November 16th, 2004 16:00
I think Joe has a point about the heat thing. Now that I think about it, the case was pretty sturdy when I got it (same with the 1100) but sometimes the case would feel hot and now it seems like it's weaker in strength then when I first got it (tends to bend more and make contact with something). Maybe the overheating causes the strength of the case to weaken thus causing multiple catalysts for the unexpected shut down. Maybe I should buy the motherboard from Dell as well as the case (if they sell that) and see what happens.
As far as the independent website, I can't devote my all to running it but maybe if a couple of us got together to set it up/run it, I'm game. I know it might be too late for a number of us to remedy the problem before it gets too far but at least we could help out those who still have a chance by creating this website.
dspman
306 Posts
0
November 16th, 2004 16:00
Rybo Flavin
21 Posts
0
November 16th, 2004 17:00
Message Edited by Rybo Flavin on 11-16-2004 02:02 PM
rich1980
14 Posts
0
November 16th, 2004 18:00
AQSTECH
9 Posts
0
November 16th, 2004 18:00
Rybo,
You asked:
"In your experience, do you think that we may be able to avoid the problem from ever occurring if we continue to keep the heat sink dust free and CPU temps down? Or, do you think even low heat levels over a long period of time will eventually cause the motherboard component to fail? Or, is this problem not even related to the CPU temperature itself?"
If we continue to see a growing amount of repairs come in, I'll have a good understanding of this problem in about 30 maybe 40 days. To answer your question, YES. Consistent cooling system maintenance is the #1 way to avoid the possibility of this happening. I cannot say for sure, but I am certain it will help.
Also, movement / shock during operation or "power on" states could also promote the problem.
Joe K
aqs12@adelphia.net
Rybo Flavin
21 Posts
0
November 16th, 2004 18:00
"I initially thought that was the problem with my computer and it's been very helpful in the operation of my computer. But it does not explain how closing the CD tray would cause the shut down."
If the excessive heat damages/melts/degrades electrical components, then it is possible that by applying pressure to the affected component, the system will shut off, etc. Heat and electronics don't mix...lot's of weird things can happen.
Message Edited by Rybo Flavin on 11-16-2004 02:10 PM
aznman43
62 Posts
0
November 16th, 2004 18:00
I initially thought that was the problem with my computer and it's been very helpful in the operation of my computer. But it does not explain how closing the CD tray would cause the shut down.
rich1980
14 Posts
0
November 16th, 2004 18:00
requested troubleshooting. I understand that it is a strange
and intermittent problem.
Rich, I found that systems may shut down due to clogged fans
or cooling vents. To resolve a system shutdown or processor throttling,
use some type of forced air (ie: a can of compressed air) to
blow into the fan vent on the bottom vent and the two cooling
vents located on the back and side of the computer.
Try this and check if the problem is resolved."
AQSTECH
9 Posts
0
November 16th, 2004 19:00
Rybo,
The problem appears to start just like the 5100 shutdown problem. The 5150's motherboard components are effected by this excessive heat unlike with the majority of the 5100 that didn't. So, it's along the same lines as the 5100 problem, but the 5150's are having a terribly negative side effect from the heat.
It's kind of like a domino effect.
Joe K
Rybo Flavin
21 Posts
0
November 16th, 2004 19:00
"The problem appears to start just like the 5100 shutdown problem. The 5150's motherboard components are effected by this excessive heat unlike with the majority of the 5100 that didn't. So, it's along the same lines as the 5100 problem, but the 5150's are having a terribly negative side effect from the heat.
It's kind of like a domino effect."
Joe,
Thank you for replying. That's exactly what I was reading into the problem based off of all of the information that has been posted over the last year. You've been extremely helpful and hopefully this will keep everyone from trying to re-invent the wheel.
guyFromEdmonton
21 Posts
0
November 16th, 2004 20:00
KingSnake1
2 Intern
•
193 Posts
0
November 16th, 2004 23:00
aznman43
62 Posts
0
November 17th, 2004 00:00
I bought one of those fan pads and the way the 5150s are designed, they're too big for them (the Targus one anyway). Depending on where you seat the laptop, the fans cancel each other out so you have to figure out the best spot for it. Like I said earlier, it doesn't make a noticeable difference. I was on my computer with the cool pad activated and with it off and there was no overall change in temperature. I could be wrong. The fans on the cooling pads do draw air away from the underside of the computer (it isn't as hot to the touch) but the CPU/HDD temp stays around the same temperature as if I didn't have it at all.
I have to admit that I feel a little safer as keeping it on the cooling pad as it keeps the underside of the laptop from making contact with surfaces which previously caused problems (C panel touching the table shuts it off, etc).