Pretty much your only option is the ATi MR9600 found in the 8600. It is a direct replacement but I understand many 8500 users who have done the swap had pretty serious heat issues. The rememdy for the heat issue is to replce the thermal pad Dell used with a copper shim (which I have done on my MR9600). This will give you a graphics card with hardware directX 9 support.
>I have an Inspiron 8500 and it has a geforce 4 4200 go 64mb. The framerates are >horrible when I play CS:source, BF1942, and any type of game designed for direct x >9.0 ..
bf1942 is a dx8.1 game, css is a dx9 game that runs also at dx8.1 with all the effects.
witch driver version are you use?? i became about 70+ ~90 in css (1024x768 all settings high)
>What are all the possible options available for the 8500
geforcefx 5200 64Mb /geforcefx 5650 128mb and radeon 9600pro
Do the mod on
http://www.bay-wolf.com/8500videoheat.htm to overclock your 4200go and you will see, that you don´t need a upgrade. The other available vid cards do not have the advantage over the 4200go which would be worth to change it.
The 5650 is even worse.
The only advantage of the 9600pro is DX9... the raw power of this card is not better at all...
Only the 9600pro turbo is upgradable. The 5650 really is not worth it...
With a little overclocking the 4200 go is better in any DX8 game than the 9600pro. Use coolbits to overclock the 4200go.
with normal overclocking my Quadro4 in an old Inspiron 8200 reached "stable" 10800pts in 3dmark2001 - ask 9600pro user, if they can do this with the same cpu...they won´t.
with some additional tuning my old inspiron beats 12800pts in 3dmark 2001...
If you plan to play
ANY DirectX 9 games, the MR9600 will be worth it. Software accerlation will always get beat by hardware acceleration. Now, if you plan on playing predominately DX8 games, the consesus is correct, you have no real need to upgrade. 3DMark 2001 scores set aside, 3DMark2003 scores will show the power of the MR9600. I cannot say with any real assurance, but I would suspect one advantage the MR9600 may have over the 4200Go might be in AA & AF even in DX8 games. Again, can't say for sure.
here you are right... in antialiasing and oversampling the 9600 will beat the 4200 in every respect.
I know that there are Dx8-pathes programmed in dx9- games.
The 9600pro turbo for sure is NO DX9-monster. Therefore dx8-pathes used by the 4200 may be faster than the dx9-pathes used by the 9600pro.
It is clear that these pathes do not look as good as a dx9-path... I can live with it.
To the raw power of the 9600 pro: you cannot overclock it, because then the card gets thermal problems. I can do it. This is the big difference and the advantage of the 4200go.
I have a friend with an Inspiron 8600 1,6 GHz and a 9600pro. If playing together my 3years old Inspiron 8200 overplays his I8600 in EVERY RESPECT at Every Game....
Remember - if playing without aa or oversampling (and with certain loss of quality, when playing dx9-games). But when can you use aa or oversampling? The 9600pro do not has the power for using this
Granted, the MR9600 is
very un-overclockable in factory form. I hit about 345 without doing the heatmod. Granted, to hit much above that takes moddifying the heatsink and hence voiding the warranty. However, the MR9600 wouldn't be covered in your system warranty any way. However, with a very simple copper heat mod to the MR9600, I have achieved a clock speed of 400MHz, up from the default of 337MHz. A nearly 20% increase. On the memory side, my particular MR9600 uses Hynix 3.3ns memory chips good for nearly 300MHz. My particular MR9600 can run 295MHz on the memory (590MHz DDR) up from 243MHz (486MHz DDR) also a 20% increase. These clock speeds are tested using the ATi Tool for artifacts, and ran fine for 30 Minutes without a single artifact; with the FANS OFF. Again, granted, this is not in factory form. Also, these clock speeds nearly match the desktop version of the Radeon 9600 Pro; save the AGP Speeds.
As for using AA & AF. I am not sure what version of DirectX Star Wars: KOTOR uses, but I am able to run this particular game at 1600 x 1200 with 2X AA and 4X AF and achieve good framerates. Similar results with Rainbox Six 3: Raven Shield. Warcraft III looks great to me at 1600 x 1200 without AA & AF, but at lower resolutions, AA & AF are easily used with good framerates. Granted though, in DirectX 9 games, AA & AF are not usable because yes, the MR9600 is no DirectX 9 monster. It is perhaps one of the slowest ATi DirectX 9 card out there.
linuxer wrote:
>>Can the Radeon 9800/9700 fit in the 8500??
yes
THAT IS WRONG. The 9700/9800 WILL NOT FIT IN A 8500 Chassis. The MR9700 and MR9800 use a completely different form factor than the video cards used in the 8600/8500 chassis.
1) So what drivers should I get for the g4 4200go to get the best performance?
2) Can I overclock w/o coolbits and just turn up the clock speeds within the nvidia drivers?
3) I've done this before but I need to know what the best combo is btw core speed and memory speed. Can someone tell me what the best combination is and what the max core/mem speed I should set my card to?
4) Is the stock cooling on the card able to handle the overclock?
5) -I have the aluminum antec cooler pad that goes on the bottom of the lappy, is that enough?
6) Will overclocking really make a noticeable difference in FPS, has anyone actually done testing to verify this?
7) Linuxer: will running that command in console all I need to do to get the high fps you get at 70-90 in CS:S? What driver should I dl?
8) if ocing the 4200go wil actually make a noticeable difference I guess it's not really worth it to go with the 9600, I just need to know how to make the 4200 reliable and not die on me from the ocing.
If and when the 4200 dies from ocing, I guess I'll be forced to buy th 9600 and do the annoying cooling mod, which I loathe.
linuxer wrote:
>>Can the Radeon 9800/9700 fit in the 8500??
yes
THAT IS WRONG. The 9700/9800 WILL NOT FIT IN A 8500 Chassis. The MR9700 and MR9800 use a completely different form factor than the video cards used in the 8600/8500 chassis.
===================================
Inspiron 8600 (A11) | 1.5GHz (Banias) | 512MB
15.4" WUXGA | Radeon 9600 | Dell Drivers A03
Core: 400MHz | Memory: 295MHz (590 DDR)
DVD+RW | 60GB Hitachi 7200rpm 8MB Cache
80GB LaCie 4200rpm 2MB Cache USB 2.0 HD
Creative USB SoundBlaster MP3+ | I-Trigue 3300
TrueMobile 300 Bluetooth | TrueMobile 1300
Windows XP Professional SP2 (Clean Install)
===================================
Sorry i had in mind a 9600pro. Only the 9600pro fit into i8500
This is most interesting... I have to tell this my friend - 20% improvement is very very good... We tried overclocking of the 9600pro without this mod - the temperature increased up to ~100°C - sheer madness...
Thank you.
by the way you are right - the 9700 or 9800 won´t fit.
To ROTC: Without any mod your cars should be able to to do ~230MHz GPU-core and 500Mhz-Ram.
resante5000
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December 8th, 2004 17:00
cademetz
2 Intern
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1.3K Posts
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December 8th, 2004 17:00
Information on the copper mod can be found here.
linuxer
244 Posts
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December 8th, 2004 19:00
bf1942 is a dx8.1 game, css is a dx9 game that runs also at dx8.1 with all the effects.
witch driver version are you use?? i became about 70+ ~90 in css (1024x768 all settings high)
>What are all the possible options available for the 8500
geforcefx 5200 64Mb /geforcefx 5650 128mb and radeon 9600pro
>What would you recommend?
9600 pro
Message Edited by linuxer on 12-08-2004 10:36 PM
ROTC
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December 8th, 2004 21:00
Umm I forgot which driver version I have,
1) but what's the best one I should install to get 70+ in CSS?
Oh BTW, my 8500 has 2.0ghz cpu, 40gb 5400rpm drive, and UXGA+ 1920by 1200 lcd, 1gb kingston ram with heatsinks
2) So the cooling mod is absolutely necessary? Has anyone tried just using it without the mod?
$270 for the 9600! that's a bit steep for me.
3) How is the geforcefx 5650 128mb? how much is it...If I buy that will it require a cooling mod or can it just drop it in?
Message Edited by ROTC on 12-08-2004 05:53 PM
Stichl_a47f94
54 Posts
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December 9th, 2004 08:00
ROTC
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December 9th, 2004 08:00
Also, How do I force CS: S to run in dx 8 only so I can boost FPS?
Can the Radeon 9800/9700 fit in the 8500??
So the 9600 isn't really worth it? It won't add that much more performance?
Stichl_a47f94
54 Posts
0
December 9th, 2004 09:00
Only the 9600pro turbo is upgradable. The 5650 really is not worth it...
With a little overclocking the 4200 go is better in any DX8 game than the 9600pro. Use coolbits to overclock the 4200go.
with normal overclocking my Quadro4 in an old Inspiron 8200 reached "stable" 10800pts in 3dmark2001 - ask 9600pro user, if they can do this with the same cpu...they won´t.
with some additional tuning my old inspiron beats 12800pts in 3dmark 2001...
the 9700 and 9800 won´t fit
cademetz
2 Intern
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1.3K Posts
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December 9th, 2004 13:00
If you plan to play ANY DirectX 9 games, the MR9600 will be worth it. Software accerlation will always get beat by hardware acceleration. Now, if you plan on playing predominately DX8 games, the consesus is correct, you have no real need to upgrade. 3DMark 2001 scores set aside, 3DMark2003 scores will show the power of the MR9600. I cannot say with any real assurance, but I would suspect one advantage the MR9600 may have over the 4200Go might be in AA & AF even in DX8 games. Again, can't say for sure.
Stichl_a47f94
54 Posts
0
December 9th, 2004 14:00
linuxer
244 Posts
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December 9th, 2004 15:00
type mat_dx 80 in console
>>Can the Radeon 9800/9700 fit in the 8500??
yes
cademetz
2 Intern
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1.3K Posts
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December 9th, 2004 15:00
As for using AA & AF. I am not sure what version of DirectX Star Wars: KOTOR uses, but I am able to run this particular game at 1600 x 1200 with 2X AA and 4X AF and achieve good framerates. Similar results with Rainbox Six 3: Raven Shield. Warcraft III looks great to me at 1600 x 1200 without AA & AF, but at lower resolutions, AA & AF are easily used with good framerates. Granted though, in DirectX 9 games, AA & AF are not usable because yes, the MR9600 is no DirectX 9 monster. It is perhaps one of the slowest ATi DirectX 9 card out there.
cademetz
2 Intern
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1.3K Posts
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December 9th, 2004 15:00
THAT IS WRONG. The 9700/9800 WILL NOT FIT IN A 8500 Chassis. The MR9700 and MR9800 use a completely different form factor than the video cards used in the 8600/8500 chassis.
ROTC
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50 Posts
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December 9th, 2004 16:00
linuxer
244 Posts
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December 9th, 2004 19:00
>>Can the Radeon 9800/9700 fit in the 8500??
yes
THAT IS WRONG. The 9700/9800 WILL NOT FIT IN A 8500 Chassis. The MR9700 and MR9800 use a completely different form factor than the video cards used in the 8600/8500 chassis.
===================================
Inspiron 8600 (A11) | 1.5GHz (Banias) | 512MB
15.4" WUXGA | Radeon 9600 | Dell Drivers A03
Core: 400MHz | Memory: 295MHz (590 DDR)
DVD+RW | 60GB Hitachi 7200rpm 8MB Cache
80GB LaCie 4200rpm 2MB Cache USB 2.0 HD
Creative USB SoundBlaster MP3+ | I-Trigue 3300
TrueMobile 300 Bluetooth | TrueMobile 1300
Windows XP Professional SP2 (Clean Install)
===================================
Sorry i had in mind a 9600pro. Only the 9600pro fit into i8500
Stichl_a47f94
54 Posts
0
December 9th, 2004 19:00
@cademetz:
This is most interesting... I have to tell this my friend - 20% improvement is very very good...
We tried overclocking of the 9600pro without this mod - the temperature increased up to ~100°C - sheer madness...
Thank you.
by the way you are right - the 9700 or 9800 won´t fit.
To ROTC: Without any mod your cars should be able to to do ~230MHz GPU-core and 500Mhz-Ram.
Juergen