Permedia2 cannot start (code 10)

Question

Our graphics designer's Precision 530 MT booted in VGA mode with a max resolution of 800x600, 16 colors, yesterday. Here are the symptoms, attempted remedies and correspondence from 3D Labs. Any help would be appreciated.

Info

System Dell Precision 530 MT Workstation

Video: 3D Labs Wildcat III 6110; AGP Pro50

Processor: Intel 2.8 GHz

Memory: 1 GB

Bios: A08

OS: W2k, sp4

Driver Version: Wildcat 5.5.6.18; PERMEDIA2: 5.0.2072.0

Errors:

Device Manager:

PERMEDIA2 (MS): This device cannot start (code 10)

Attempted Resolutions:

1. Rebooted machine - No change

2. Updated Wildcat drivers - No change

3. Ran WCFDM daignostics from Dell Utilities CD.

a. Results: Diagnostic error #10756 occurred at [date] [time],

durring loop 0.

No Active Wildcat card found.

Couldn't read Python, CSR or GRFSTAT

4. Reseated card - No change

5. Tried 2nd output port on video card - lost video

6. Researched problem on the web - Results inconclusive, at this time.

7. E-mailed 3D Labs tech support - Waiting for response.

8. Disabled PERMEDIA2 - No change.

9. Uninstalled PERMEDIA2 - No change.

Correspondence with 3D Labs:

3DLabs never directly manufactured any graphics cards based on the
Permedia chipsets. These chipsets were in fact manufactured by 3DLabs
but sold to a number of Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs), who
used these chipsets to produce full graphics cards or used them as
embedded components on motherboards. As a result, support for these
products from 3DLabs is quite limited and whenever possible, we would
advise that you turn to the actual OEM who supplied your own graphics
card for any driver updates for the product (a range of different
companies produced the cards, like Elsa, Compaq, etc).

3DLabs does provide generic drivers for Permedia chipsets which you can
use if you cannot obtain any custom drivers for your graphics card,
however, driver development for these products stopped with Windows NT
4.0:

http://www.3dlabs.com/support/drivers/product.asp?bypass=1&category=1&os=2&driverlang=&prod=301&drivertype=1

And Windows 95 in the 9x family of operating systems:

http://www.3dlabs.com/support/drivers/product.asp?bypass=1&category=1&os=1&driverlang=&prod=301&drivertype=1

Unfortunately, no Windows 2000 or XP drivers are available for these
products from 3DLabs - the OEM vendor of your specific card may provide
drivers, however, this is not very likely given the age of these
chipsets.

The Wildcat III 6110 is a much more advanced graphics card and doesn't
have anything to do with Permedia. Please verify which graphic card or
cards you have installed on the system. Please refer to the link below
when you identify the product that you have.

http://www.3dlabs.com/support/troubleshooting/id-01.htm

Riylin · Answer

Here is what it sounds like to me.   He tried to install the Perimedia 2 drivers, on a video card that is net a Permidia 2 chip, hence why you are getting that can not start error.    I would uninstall the permedia 2 drivers he put in there then install the right ones for that Wild Cat.

kvfelton · Answer

Permedia2 drivers have been uninstalled. Results have not changed, still in VGA 16 color mode.

speedstep · Answer

Permedia cards are not native to windows. Sounds like the card is bad. Get a new video card and call it a day.

Riylin · Answer

@speedstep wrote:
Permedia cards are not native to windows. Sounds like the card is bad. Get a new video card and call it a day.

The thing I was saying was he does not have a Permedia 2 card, the video car he stats he has is 3D Labs Wildcat III 6110, which is not based on the Permida 2 Chip.

Ok now install the drivers for that card from 3D Labs, see if it works.

kvfelton · Answer

I have reinstalled the drivers. The only thing I haven't done is to uninstal the Wildcat in Device Manager and reboot, hoping the OS will regognize the card again. A little scary for a high end video card that is acting up.

Riylin · Answer

@kvfelton wrote:
I have reinstalled the drivers. The only thing I haven't done is to uninstal the Wildcat in Device Manager and reboot, hoping the OS will regognize the card again. A little scary for a high end video card that is acting up.

I can understand that. Is sounds like the card may be kaput. Try this, take a video card from another computer and put it in there, see if it works or if you still get errors. If it works you know its the card if not, then you have other issues, and I would back up all the data and see if a clean install of windows fixes the issues.

kvfelton · Answer

Ah, OK.  That makes sense, I will try that. Thank you.

speedstep · Answer

@Riylin wrote:

@kvfelton wrote:
I have reinstalled the drivers. The only thing I haven't done is to uninstal the Wildcat in Device Manager and reboot, hoping the OS will regognize the card again. A little scary for a high end video card that is acting up.

I can understand that. Is sounds like the card may be kaput. Try this, take a video card from another computer and put it in there, see if it works or if you still get errors. If it works you know its the card if not, then you have other issues, and I would back up all the data and see if a clean install of windows fixes the issues.

Moving the BAD card from one machine to another could DAMAGE the other machine.
Better to get a new card and see if that fixes the error.

We have techs that do this with bad hard drives or good hard drives with bad power supply in systems then fry the New parts because they havent taken the time to fully analyze whats wrong.

Riylin · Answer

@speedstep wrote:

Moving the BAD card from one machine to another could DAMAGE the other machine.
Better to get a new card and see if that fixes the error.

I did not sugest moving the bad card, I sugested using a good card. A known good card from another machine is a much better soultion then wasting $$ on a new card for no reason.

speedstep · Answer

A card that has gone bad due to some kind of power or motherboard failure is a likely candidate for causing a good card to also become "bad".

Buying a new card is not a waste. You must buy one anyway. A new card if made bad by the system can be returned. An old card made bad by a system cannot be returned.

In either case we need a new card here. There is no magic driver that fixes bad cards.

Riylin · Answer

@speedstep wrote:
A card that has gone bad due to some kind of power or motherboard failure is a likely candidate for causing a good card to also become "bad".

Buying a new card is not a waste. You must buy one anyway. A new card if made bad by the system can be returned. An old card made bad by a system cannot be returned.

In either case we need a new card here. There is no magic driver that fixes bad cards.

Where do you think I said a magic driver will fix it? I said he has the driver installed for a Permedia 2 GPU (if you can even call them a GPU) when the card it based on a 3DLabs VP processor. Imagine for a moment what would happen if you installed the nVidia drivers while having an ATI Card in your system. That is what it sounds like to me is going on.

Video cards generaly do not fail dou to a bad power supply (unless they have a driect connect to the PSU like the 6800 Ultra for example). Generaly you will see the CPU fail first, the video card can handle a greater shift in voltages then the CPU.

No they do no nessasarly have to buy a new card, you have to isolate the issue first. You need ti see is it drivers, is it the video card, is it something else you do not just throw cash at a problem and hope it fixes it. You have to diagnose the problem first. The best way to do that is to test a known good card in the system, it will tell you if there is a more indepts problem, perhaps a failure in the AGP slot's conectors, or trace paths, or maybe the card just failed. Then you need to see is the faluty part still under warranty if it is you RMA it if not then you replcae it, and you replace the correct part, not just the video card when you don't know if it is the problem.

speedstep · Answer

A bit of spell checking works wonders.
Its perfectly legitimate to not waste time and get a new card. If the card is not the problem you can take it back to where you purchased it for a refund. Unlike software hardware can be returned.

I disagree on several points. Video cards use more than 1 voltage and a bad power supply CAN cause a a card to fail. Saying this is not possible indicates to me a lack of basic testing procedures. Swapping parts round is not always a good solution. Using a known good card that comes with drivers is a good place to start.
Getting a new card means that you can return it if it doesnt work.

The steal from peter to pay paul method can make 2 machines bad vs just 1.

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Permedia2 cannot start (code 10)

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