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102725
pci-e graphics card conflicts with pci graphics card?
hi everyone,
i'm trying to get two graphics cards into my desktop, but am having trouble getting both cards to be recognized at the same time. has anyone had this problem, and found a solution? any ideas much appreciated! here's the situation:
relevant aspects of my computer:
- dell xps410/dimension 9200
- bios version 2.5.3
- chipset version 8.0.0.1009, A17
- pci-e sapphire radeon hd 3870, catalyst drivers 9.4
- pci powercolor radeon hd 2400 pro, catalyst drivers 9.4
- i have 2 SATA hdd's installed, 1 SATA burner, and 1 modem.
- running windows xp SP2
the problem that i'm having is that i can't seem to run both graphics cards at the same time. both cards are correctly installed. i know this because i can use each one separately - just not both at the same time. to use one card or the other, i change which card is "primary" in the bios.
if i boot up with the pci-e graphics card as primary, then windows sees that card and uses it fine. device manager, however, also shows the pci card but with a yellow exclamation on top of the icon. when i right click that, it tells me that the "device could not start (code 10)" (or something to that effect). the event manager occassionally also tells me that the computer is "Unable to map required address ranges for graphics card" - and this error is "event ID 2" and the source is "ati2tmag."
if i boot up with the pci graphics card as primary, then windows sees that card and uses it fine. device manager, however, does not even show the pci-e card. instead, it giveds me a yellow exclamation on top of the pci-e root port. when i right click that, i find that this device could not allocate sufficient resources, suggesting an IRQ or memory addressing conflict. that said, pulling out other devices doesn't resolve this problem. neither does changing the pci slot that the card is seated in.
does anyone have any thoughts as to why this is going on? my suspicion is that my particular dell motherboard/bios combination for whatever reason cannot support having a pci-e graphics card and a pci graphics card a the same time. everything at a higher level seems to be working correctly - it's just that there's a resource conflict now that is preventing both cards from loading simultaneously. if this is the case, is there some way to manually assign resources to the two cards?
thanks in advance.
jonathan
babymonk
7 Posts
1
April 11th, 2009 23:00
darrell wv, davet50, ron, thanks all for your feedback.
i think davet50's understanding of the situation is correct. i am indeed trying to run 3 monitors over 2 graphics cards, and i don't have a second PCI-E slot.
@davet50, i followed your suggestion (checking out the resource tabs for the cards), and here's what i found. if i boot up with the PCI-E card as primary, the PCI card isn't able to start (according to device manager), so it is not using any resources at all. if i boot up with the PCI card as primary, the PCI-E card isn't even found, because the PCI-E root port has some kind of resource conflict - and also isn't able to start.
so in both cases, the resource tab is unfortunately not very helpful since in one case the conflict is avoided altogether by the PCI card failing to start, and in the other case the PCI-E root part failing to start.
*** TIME PASSED***
the situation has now changed markedly. in order to check the resource tab in both configurations (which card is primary), i had to reboot a few times. in the course of doing so, the (most recent) time that i rebooted with the PCI-E card as primary, both cards were recognized and both cards are now running. i am now able to move my cursor across all 3 monitors that are connected.
that said, something is very wrong. the computer is extremely slow at doing anything - and programs are crashing whenever i try to run them, even task manager (i have to try to run it a few times to get it to go without crashing). when i look in task manager, however, the cpu is happily unoccupied (~10% usage over two cores), the pagefile is nearly entirely unused (350 Mb). the other fields, however, i'm not sure how to interpret. below is a readout of what i'm getting.
here are the results from a few additional little experiments i've done:
the picture that i'm getting seems to be pointing toward a situation where the PCI graphics card has somehow resolved its resource issue on its own but in so doing has upset the resource allocation to other important devices (e.g. RAM, other essential motherboard elements, etc.). are there any suggestions on how to diagnose this issue?
thanks very much!
jonathan
%%% TASK MANAGER DUMP %%%
Totals:
Handles: 10059
Threads: 573
Processes: 46
Physical Memory (K)
Total: 2281380
Available: 2367544
System Cache: 999716
Commit Charge (K)
Total: 378396
Limit: 8523540
Peak: 398360
Kernel Memory (K)
Total: 98568
Paged: 71320
Nonpaged: 29200
babymonk
7 Posts
1
April 11th, 2009 23:00
hey everyone,
for those following this thread, thanks again. i think you can chalk up my last message to me thinking out loud. based on my own hunch, i turned off the /3Gb switch in my boot.ini, and voila, the computer appears to be back to more reasonable speeds. it's only been 5 minutes or so, but i think i am in the clear (knock on wood). i will post updates if the situation changes.
best,
jonathan
Darrell WV
482 Posts
0
April 11th, 2009 19:00
Hello jonathan,
I am not sure if you understand that in order for two PCI graphics cards to work together, ie at the same time, they must be in SLI/Crossfire mode, so the MOBO and Chipset and BIOS must allow for SLI/Crossfire. As a part of the cards being recognized at the same time, they must be the same model, ie both 3870 or both 2400, the different cards will not work together in the same system at the same time.
You are trying to make the MOBO do something for which it is not capable. Since you are using ATI cards they would have to be in Crossfire.
You can run both cards individually and use the output to the same monitor with a switching cable or to different monitors, but not at the same time. When using two of the same GPU's remember that the PCI slots are numbered just like the RAM DIMMs and each MOBO numbering system can be found in your manual, either the hard copy you have or online at Dell Support.
Best,
Darrell WV
Darrell WV
482 Posts
0
April 11th, 2009 20:00
Thanks Dave, I did not see that he was running multiple monitors. I have seen that the group of "folders" hanging out run each GPU indepentantly of each other for maximum folding, but I thought the OP was trying to run only one monitor with both GPUs. I misread.
Best,
Darrell WV
Davet50
14.4K Posts
0
April 11th, 2009 20:00
Darrell
I have to disagree with your statement. One can and should be able to run two differnent graphics card at the same time with out being in SLI or Crossfire mode. This is how one can run 3 or 4 monitors. Once in SLI or Crossfire the old cards and using only the latest and greatest Nvidia drives is multimonitor support enabled.
In the OP's case he has one PCIe slot and Im guessing wants to run 3 or more monitor so the addition of the second PCI card as there is only one PCIe slot on the system board.
Now to the op I would look at the resoure tab for the graphics cards when they are enable and see if they are using the same reasources. You could try changing the PCI card to a different slot as this may help
RoHe
10 Elder
10 Elder
•
44.3K Posts
0
April 11th, 2009 23:00
Unless I missed it, I didn't see how many monitors the OP wants to run at the same time. If it's only 2, the OP may be able to use a DVI output and a VGA output from the PCI-e video card to drive 2 monitors. Some video card drivers allow the monitors to show separate windows or to spread one window across 2 monitors .
If there's only one output port on the video card, then it may be possible to use a Y-adaptor to connect 2 monitors. But in this case they will show exactly the same window.
Ron
babymonk
7 Posts
0
April 22nd, 2009 22:00
hello andy,
i unfortunately can't promise that you'll be able to get a second video adapter up and running, especially since your motherboard, bios, and current graphics card are different from mine. that said, i do believe that if i had not had the /3Gb switch in my boot.ini, it would have been as simple as seating the second card, booting up, and making sure the drivers were current/installed/compatible. i would also add that i subsequently had to upgrade my power supply to >600W; for whatever reason, before this upgrade, i could run my PCI-E card only at 16 bit color on both outputs, but after, i could run everything at 32 bit color. now that said, i should also point out that my Dell case did not fit a standard ATX power supply - so i had to do a minor modification of the case to get it to go in. this was a chore.
everything's ok now, though... so, overall, i guess my advice would be: it will probably work for you, but it may take a great deal of effort to troubleshoot. if you're not prepared to do this, my advice would be to either 1) buy a matrox four-head card if that is compatible with your system (if it is, you should be good to go out of the box), 2) custom-build yourself another computer so that you can be sure everything works with everything, or 3) buy a computer that is pre-built with two graphics cards in it already (e.g. make Dell configure one that does what you want).
to address a few specific points in your note:
as a final note, don't take this reply as the final word on this. i got a lot of insight from all over the internet (e.g. the ultramon and catalyst forums). for example, when installing/upgrading ATI cards, it seems to help if you do fresh driver installs, which entails cleaning out the old drivers with a driver cleaner, and only then installing the new drivers. ask around on the internet, and you should hopefully be able to amass all of the information that you'll need.
good luck,
jonathan
Andy GJ
4 Posts
0
April 22nd, 2009 22:00
Dear Jonathan,
I am so glad to have found this thread. I am wrestling with exactly the same problem. I really need more screen space but I have been told by Dell support that my machine simply cannot accept another card
Just like you I have a PCI E card installed and I have two more PCI slots one of which I would like to use for a PCI video card
My machine is a Dell XPS Dimension 9150. The current card is 256 MB ATI Radeon X600
I thought it would be no trouble just to get another secondhand video card for 40-$50 for the PCI slot. Four different Dell support staff gave me four different answers! The last guy however was emphatic that it would not work. The machine just would not be able to use an additional card. He was talking about this SLI/crossfire thing too but was not able to really explain it to me. And yet all over the Internet I hear guys talking about running 3 or more monitors. But this last guy from Dell support was the only guy that seemed to know what he was talking about. The other three were quite hopeless
What you have written is giving me hope. So basically I just buy a PCI video card, I'll get another ATI Radeon, and insert it in the PCI slot. And it should work? Or do I have to make some settings in BIOS or somehow "enable" the second card. What exactly should I do? I really do need more screen space and was very disappointed to hear Dell support tell me it could not be done.
I have 3 GB of RAM but I would like to note how your machine is performing now. I run a log of programs simultaneously for my business so I cannot afford to have a machine running at half pace.
Your advice evice would be greatly appreciated.
Regards
Andy
babymonk
7 Posts
0
April 23rd, 2009 00:00
hi andy,
the 3 Gb switch in boot.ini reallocates address space so that you can use more RAM in exchange for less address space for the OS to use. unfortunately, it's impossible for me to tell you if you're using this switch. you would have to check for yourself in boot.ini.
as for resource problems, luckily i didn't have to do anything manually. the 3 Gb switch was the cause of my lack of address space - so getting rid of the switch in my boot.ini solved my problem.
good luck,
jonathan
Andy GJ
4 Posts
0
April 23rd, 2009 00:00
Dear Jonathan,
Thank you sincerely for your prompt reply
No my case is like yours, one PCI E already running and no other PCIE slot in the machine, just two more PCI slots. So if I want to add an extra card it must be a PCI card.
Also, I have to work things out with this particular machine. The option of buying a new machine or upgrading to a 64-bit OS is not really there. I don't need a lot of memory on the new card either, I am not a gamer, and I just need extra screen space.
I do want 32-bit color though. I hope I don't have to change my power supply unit. If I did I would probably just see if the new card runs okay on 16 bit first, and even that might be able to meet my needs.
I am totally lost on the subject of 3 GB switch in your boot.ini file, but I can say that I have increased the RAM from 1 GB which came originally with the machine, to 3 GB. So do I have such a switch?
3 GB of RAM should be enough, at least by looking at Task Manager performance window when running, I never even get near 2 GB.
But you say your problem was "resource problems". So do you mean that you have to configure the second card to use different resources to the first original card? If so, how exactly do you do this? You say your second card did not load. So exactly what do you do to get the second card to load? I have never configured resources before.
Sincerely yours,
Andy
Andy GJ
4 Posts
0
April 23rd, 2009 03:00
Dear Jonathan,
This is what is in my file. Not that I can understand what it means but, it does not look to be anything in there to do with reallocating address space. Am I right? If so, I'll just go ahead and get a cheap secondhand card and see if it works-although one of the technicians at Dell support assures me that it won't. But he says you can never get a PCI E card to work together with a PCI card.
[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect
Best regards,
Andy
Andy GJ
4 Posts
0
May 7th, 2009 10:00
1 x PCIE 1 x PCI . No problems encountered at all, in spite of the fact that three people from Dell technical support told me it wouldn't work on my Dimension 9150.
Added an old PCI card. Start up Windows. Windows recognizes the new PCI card and allocates the drivers from the original PCI E card to the new card.
No problem. Right click on desktop. Properties/settings/advanced and for the new card (the only one that exists in Windows at this time) select Adapter/update. Then use the CD that came with the new PCI card to install the correct drivers.
Reboot Windows XP and Windows again associates the original PCIE card drivers with that original card, while keeping the new PCI card matched to the just installed drivers.
Runs perfectly. So why did the guys at Dell technical support make such a meal of it?
MJS KY
2 Posts
0
May 8th, 2009 22:00
For what it is worth: My 2Cents... I have been running multi monitors since 1999 on a Windows 98 machine with an ATI dual head graphics card. Then in 2003 I moved to a Dell 4600 with an AGP graphics card (nVidia ) with two monitors on it, and added a PCI ATI dual head video card. Four monitors worked fine and I had no issues. You do not need to change any Bios settings or do any thing fancy - just right click on the desktop (display properties), go to settings and click on the monitor to add, click "Extend my Windows desktop to this monitor". You can then drag the monitors into the proper physical location to match how they are set on your desk. (Be sure to hit "Apply")
By dual head video card, I mean one with two outputs - one usually a DVI, one a VGA. Use an adapter if your monitor is the wrong flavor (VGA or DVI).
P. S. I have just purchased a Dell Precision T3400 with Dual PCIe video slots, with two dual DVI output video cards. Four monitors and all is well! I may add one of the PCI cards for an additional two monitors, but I will need a bigger desk!
Note: I am going to post a new note in a new thread concerning how many applications can be run simultaneously in Windows (XP). As I see it, 2GB Ram is plenty, and any more is a waste since it isn't used. I also do not think processor power is an issue - I think Windows operating system issues are the present limit to multitasking.
I hope this was useful.