The position on the cable determines which is master and which slave; and therefore which device (0 or 1) is which.  The connector furthermost from the motherboard selects the attached device as the master.  It is not recommended to mix CDROM drives and hard drives on the same IDE controller. ALL IDE devices are to be set to cable select (CDROMs as well).

The best option is the hard drive to be master is connected on the endmost connector furthest from the motherboardof the primary IDE cable; the secondary drive then goes on the middle connector of the primary IDE cable.  The CDOM goes on the endmost connector of the secondary IDE channel cable furthest from the motherboard.  In the bios, set both devices on the primary to AUTO; set the first device on the secondary channel to AUTO (for the CDROM) and the second to NONE.

"The best option is the hard drive to be master is connected on the endmost connector furthest from the motherboardof the primary IDE cable; the secondary drive then goes on the middle connector of the primary IDE cable."

"In the bios, set both devices on the primary to AUTO"

With this setup I get the following error messages:
Primary hard disk 1 not found
Primary hard disk 0 failure

If I then press f2 and enter setup I can see the HD on 0. Nothing is detected on 1
Even though I can see the HD on 0 I can’t access it. To access it I have to disconnect the ribbon from the secondary drive and reset 0 to AUTO and 1 to NONE

I’m using BIOS version A07.
If there is a newer version might it help to update the bios or is this not a bios problem?

Use UDMA 80 Wire Cables with New drives.

The AME connector IS NOT AN IDE connector.

The cable is polarized.

The BLUE connector MUST GO to the Motherboard.

The BLACK connector Must Go to the Primary Drive

The Grey connector Must Go to the Secondary Drive If you have one.

The name is important: the new cable has 80 conductors (wires)--it does not have 80 pins on each connector, though, just 40. This means that the new cable is pin-compatible with the old drive. No change has been made to the IDE/ATA connectors, aside from the color-coding issue. For any Ultra DMA drives above mode 2, the 80-conductor cable is mandatory.

Blue: The blue connector attaches to the host (motherboard or controller).
Gray: The gray connector is in the middle of the cable, and goes to any slave (device 1) drive if present on the channel.
Black: The black connector is at the opposite end from the host connector and goes to the master drive (device 0), or a single drive if only one is used.

 

This is unlikely to be cured by a bios update; A07 usually works fine. 

Fiirstly, double check you have CS set; the syptoms are either the jumpers are not correct or you have a drive failure.

To try to resolve your problem, disconnect the secondary IDE and turn all devices to NONE on it.   Try setting device 0 to AUTO and device 1 to NONE on the primary;  then check first with one disk on the end of the cable then the other.  Reset the NRAM each time.  Make sure each time the disk is detected with the right identifier and size in the bios.

Post back what you find.  PS what make and size disks are you using?

To comment on this, I have never had a problem using new drives with the original Dell cables on GX1s, GX110s or Dimension R series machines;  the loss of speed isn't an issue as the GX1 interface is ATA33 only anyway....It is a valid point however to get the original cables round the right way!

 

 

Both HD’s are Maxtors
Primary Model No 91361U3, 12GB – reads 13613 in the bios. Loaded with Windows98
Secondary Model No 28020H1, 20Gb – reads 20416 in the bios. Loaded with NT4, SP6
As I said at the beginning of this thread, “I can read both hard drives if I have one ribbon cable from the Primary Slot to one hard drive and a second cable from the secondary slot to the other hard drive. But then I can’t include the CD-ROM.” [Using info I obtained from sysinternals.com I can read the NTFS using Win98(FAT32).]

So, both HD’s operating OK, but also tested them individually as you suggested,
“To try to resolve your problem, disconnect the secondary IDE and turn all devices to NONE on it. Try setting device 0 to AUTO and device 1 to NONE on the primary; then check first with one disk on the end of the cable then the other. Reset the NRAM each time. Make sure each time the disk is detected with the right identifier and size in the bios.” (Although I don’t know what NRAM is!) and again, could read both HD’s individually.
Although both are Maxtors, Cable Select settings are different for both:
Primary HD 12GB (no diagram) : top line: 1 2 3 blank 5
bottom line: 1 2 3 4 5
Jumper on 2 – top and bottom

Secondary HD 20GB (according to diagram) top line: 1 2 3 4 5
bottom line: blank 2 3 4 5
2 jumpers. First one 1 – 2 top line
Second jumper on 3 – top and bottom.

In the bios they both come up as EIDE Drives, but here’s one possible clue:
You said, “The position on the cable determines which is master and which slave; and therefore which device (0 or 1) is which. The connector furthermost from the motherboard selects the attached device as the master.”
I tried connecting them both ways first with the 12GB HD at the end of the connector furthermost from the motherboard and then again with the 20GB HD at the end of the connector furthermost from the motherboard. Both times (after the usual error messages) just the13GB registered in the bios in Primary drive 0 – AUTO. What I’m saying is that when the 20GB at the end of the ribbon should have registered in Primary Drive 0 it didn’t. (Both times Primary Drive 1 remained blank)

As to the suggestion that I “Use UDMA 80 Wire Cables with New drives.” I’d have to go out and purchase one in the next day or two if this seems to be the only solution left, although you also mentioned a few other specs that I’m not sure apply…

I couldn’t use the original Dell cables because this Optiplex only came with 2 single cables, each with just 2 connectors at each end. I had to build in some scaffolding to accommodate the second HD.

Also spoke to someone in a computer shop today who suggested I jumper the HD’s as Master/Slave. He said it would be more stable that CS. Not sure if I’d still use the AUTO setting then or try another….??

Several things:

Firstly, the small form factor case has a puny power supply; you may have problems here with support for multiple devices.

Secondly, you are using replacement cables; these may be the problem if they are don't support cable select (some don't!!!)

Thirdly, the fact that the 20G doesn't work on the endmost connector on the primary cable but does on the secondary, and the smaller one works on the endmost connector of the primary, suggests a problem with the 20G drive jumpering (or incompatibility with the cable connections if not a CS cable).

Finally you can try master/slave, but in my view this rarely if ever works on the GX1 certainly using the original Dell cables.

I’ve moved all my info onto just the one HD and although it would be handy to have the second one working too I’m shelving the problem until I have a spare hour or so to test out the Master/Slave jumper settings. (I’ll be trying it out on the AUTO setting unless you suggest differently.) Will also be passing a store next week where I should be able to get the CS ribbon cable as described.

Meantime just wanted to post a thanks to you guys for all your insights and help. I’d be even more stuck without it, thinking there had to be a solution I just couldn’t see.

If I have any success with any of the above I’ll post an update at a later date.

Thanks again!

Hi, I've been struggling with this same problem on my OptiPlex GX1,
550mHz pIII, Tower. I searched the internet for solutions, finally coming to this forum. I've successfully solved this problem of adding a second hard drive to my system as follows:
1) The cable that comes with the optiplex I believe does NOT support cable select. After trying what VALUTE did (switching HDD's on the Primary IDE channel, Jumpers, etc.), I remembered having an extra IDE cable laying around (A 3M cable p/n unknown), I decided to try it on the system.
2) I then set HDD's to cable select setting.
3) Rebooted system...Drive 1 recognized!!!
4) Finished booting Windows ME, checked My Computer, no second HDD.
5) Started Power Quest Partition Magic 8. It saw the Slave drive!
6) Tried several times to unhide partition with no success.
7) Finally converted this drive to a logical partition.
8) PQ runs a program called Drive Mapper to resolve drive lettering after reboot.
9) Back into O/S, opened My Computer, voila Second HDD!!!
I hopes this helps

Sounds more like a dodgy cable - the GX110s were always shipped configured using cable select; it is only on very recent Dells that master/slave can be used reliably.  If you have pre-formatted hard disks and multiple active partitions, then this can cause problems with the OS but not usually with the bios detection.

Using a new Ribbon Cable with Blue, Grey and Black plugs (called ATA 100 Flat (Non IDE) but with 80 fine wires) both HD's are recognised in the BIOS! However when I boot into the 13MB Drive (Win98) the 20MB drive doesn't appear. Rebooting to A:> and then into Partition Magic it does see the second drive but tells me there are 0MB's on it. If I try to do anything to it I get an error message, '0MB Partition Table error #121 found'

Reverting back to ordinary ribbon cables and reading both drives via the Primary and Secondary connectors on the mother board (no CD-ROM) I tried using PMagic to set the 20GB drive as extended and then logical, but my early version of PM doesn't offer this possibility, so tried using fdisk instead, but this only read the 13GB drive and didn't see the 20GB one at all.

Booted into the Win98 13 GB HD, thinking I would format the 20GB from within but then noticed, when I was about to format it yet again that it was only reading 9.38GB. Clicking on Properties, the 20GB drive gives yet another reading = 13.2 GB and reads the File System as FAT32 when I actually formatted it NTFS.

Reverting back to the CD-ROM (no 20GB HD) I loaded Paragon Partition Manager. Then changing back to the old IDE cables (no CD-ROM), PPM sees the 20GB HD which I then reformatted as FAT32 and converted it to an extended logical partition as suggested earlier in this thread. Changed back to the ATA 100 cable with CD-ROM back on second drive. As before BIOS recognises both drives, but 20HD not seen once I'm in Win98. Opened PMM and while it’s getting the partition info it tells me Invalid Drive Specified. An Error Message Box appears offering Abort, Retry, Ignore, Fail which I have to click many times before it stops re-appearing. Once in, the 20MB disk is seen although greyed out. Trying every possible option, if I choose to update the MBR (don’t know what this is. The Help file tells me it’s ‘how to retrieve the standard bootstrap code’ – Don’t know what this is either.) the drive is highlighted as Free. But if I try to Apply Changes I get the continuous error message again, although something changes, because it is no longer greyed out and is called Primary, Free. But again, any changes I try to subsequently make brings up the Error Message Box.

So, my next move would be to return to the old IDE cables (no CD-ROM) and using PPM do…. what???


Any suggestions?

ALL DRIVES ALL CONTROLLERS MUST BE SET CABLE SELECT WITH GOOD CABLE SELECT COMPATABLE CABLES.

This is especially true with SFF systems as there is no way to change the CDROM to be anything other than Cable select.

YOU CANNOT MIX CABLE SELECT AND MASTER/SLAVE on a cable or controller. Doing so will damage data and or prevent drives from being "seen".

CABLE SELECT IS NOT OPTIONAL.

Okay Valute couple of things:
DEFINITELY jumper HDDs to Cable Select!
Set up as before: 13GB to master, 20 GB slave, and CDROM to 2nd controller.
BIOS - Both HDDs set to Auto
Also of note --- Win98 CANNOT read NTFS Volumes, therefore you can't unhide OR convert to logical UNDER Win98!
I use Power Quest Partion Magic Version 8, although most partition managers should be able to do what you need to do. (you may have to upgrade to a newer version)
When you see the 2nd HDD "greyed" out, it means that the drive is "hidden".
Convert this drive to a Logical volume - DO THIS FIRST! (I couldn't "unhide" the 2nd disk until it was converted)
You should have an option in your Part. Manager to "unhide" the 2nd drive - DO THIS NEXT!
MAKE ABSOLUTELY SURE THAT THE DRIVE LETTERS ARE MAPPED CORRECTLY! (PQPM 8 has a utility called Drive Mapper, although Win2k can do this from ConPanel-> Adminitrative Tools-> Computer Management-> Storage-> Disk Management)
What exactly do plan on doing with a dual disk config, anyway?
It seems like you'd like to install new O/S (Win2k/XP?)?
If this is the case, Win2k/XP can read/write to FAT32 Volumes; Keep file system the same on both HDDs (FAT32).
Post back with info.
Cheers!

I’ve detached the CD-ROM from the 2nd slot on the Motherboard because that was a non CS Cable. I’ve detached the power supply to the CD-ROM – just in case there wasn’t ample power to supply the 2 HD’s.

I’ve adjusted the BIOS and hooked up both HD’s to a CS Cable. Both HD’s are set to CS and not Master/Slave.

I’ve re-formatted the 20GBto FAT32 and designated it extended, logical. It has been automatically designated as D and I can't find a way in Paragon Partition Manager or within Win98 to map this differently. But by disconnecting the CD-ROM – which was D – this shouldn’t be a problem for just testing it.

And, as in my last post, before I made these changes, the both HD’s (and CD-ROM, when connected) are read by the BIOS, but not when I boot into the Computer, although PPM does pick it up the Slave HD as an invalid drive.

The only thing I can think of now is that the Master Drive is smaller than the Slave. My intention is to load Win XP onto the larger drive at some future point and use the smaller drive as Slave. Perhaps that’ll sort this all out, although it is strange that the BIOS picks up both HDD’s, but Win98 doesn’t.

The only other things that I know to get your setup working is as follows:
Setup the computer the way you want it originally:
Primary controller
Drive 0: 13GB HDD (Master on cable;Jumper set to CS)
Drive 1: 20GB HDD (Slave on cable;Jumper set to CS)
Secondary controller
Drive 0: CD-ROM

Remove the battery from the Motherboard for Five Minutes. (It's the size of a quarter)

Reboot system

Go to ConPanel->System->Device Manager;View devices by type

Look in the Disk Drives -- Is the second drive listed?
Is there a exclamation point next to it?
Click (If available) on Properties
Any messages here? (device is working properly...)

Other than that suggestion, you could:
-Put the 20GB HDD on the master
-Put the 13GB HDD on the slave
-Install Win XP on The 20GB
-Have a dual boot system (If you still need Win98)

I think that Win98 is confused about what drives are which, especially if you keep rebooting with different configs.
Once I put My master drive into a totally different computer and WinME went through a whole routine of finding new devices. Afterwards I discovered that this particular computer didn't support Win2k, so I reverted back to my trusty GX1. When I booted up, I received an error message and it wouldn't boot up at all (probably from the new device setting stored on the HDD). My brother suggested that I remove the battery on the motherboard which resets the memory on the board.
When I rebooted, WinME went through the same routines (found new device, installing drivers).

I hope this helps
Cheers!