Questions Adding SATA Hard Drives to Dimension 8400

Question

When my Dimension 8400 arrives next week, I want to add SATA hard drives to it. These will be installed in the front bays within SATA to SATA hard drive portability caddys (a fan cooled Kingwin product). I will use hard drives for longer term storage of multi-media files. I will put files on a drive, create a copy of the drive, and remove and store both of them separately.

I have searched the forum for information concerning adding SATA drives. According to a forum post, the Dimension 8400 has board connections for 4 SATA drives. My Dimension 8400 will arrive with one drive, a SATA. Can anyone help me with answers to the following questions. Related comments are appreciated. (While getting this post together, I have been able to partially answer some of the following question, again thanks to a link I found from searching the forums.)

1. Will the existing SATA power supply connectors be long enough to reach the front 5.25" bays? Are there 4 of them?

I think I see the answer at this link:

http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim8400/SM/techov.htm#wp1052739

The P3 and P5 connectors are the SATA power connectors, correct? I will need at least 1 power Y splitter (as the connectors are not separated enough to supply drives at two locations. (Stop me if I am getting anything wrong. :) )

2. How long a SATA cable will I need to connect to the front 5 1/4" bays? Is 18" about standard and suitable? Are straight (not angled connectors) appropriate/suitable? (From the illustrations in the same link as above, it looks like the same cable length will be suitable for both bays.)

3. Can a fan cooled drive enclosure be externalized using an extended length SATA cable and power cable extension? Will SATA work with extended length cables?

4. What kind of interface cable will the Dell CD/DVD R+/-W Drive have? (From the illustration in the previous link, it appears to be the old fashioned IDE ribbon cable.) Can it be extended with a longer cable to an external enclosure (to free up the second external 5 1/4" front bay for a second Kingwin interfaced SATA hard drive)?

Extra Credit:

Will there be a separate legacy power cable to connect a legacy floppy drive. Will there be somewhere to connect my legacy floppy drive and cable (from an earlier Dell Dimension)? (The link seems to show that there are power connectors of the legacy type, though perhaps a Y would be appropriate.)

Thank you for your suggestions, comments and recommendations. BTW: Family_Voices is a guy (male).

My Setup:

I now use my Inspiron 8200 as a "desktop replacement". A PCMCIA card provides a pair of USB-2 connectors through a single controller. USB-2 connected hard drives can not be tested/monitored using S.M.A.R.T. and the USB-2 interface is too slow for moving large digital media files around.

My retired Dimension 8200 has no native USB-2 ports. It was running Windows ME (upgraded from Windows 95).

ejn63 · Answer

1. They should be long enough, but there are only two SATA rails from the power supply, not 4.

2. 18" cables should be fine - the case is not that tall.

3. see #2.

4. EIDE, not SATA.

5. Because the floppy drive sits behind the faceplate, you may have trouble fitting a standard one - for the $20 the floppy costs, it's better to buy it with the system.

Bear in mind that there are only two 5.25" drive bays, and only two 3.5" hard drive bays inside - in addition to the bay for the floppy. It sounds as though you'd be better off considering a Precision or Dimension XPS, which has three 5.25" bays.

Family_Voices · Answer

Thank you, ejn63, for your kind response. I did not see your post sooner because I have been on-line trying to figure out about these cables. Good comment about better to buy a new floppy drive then to expect a legacy drive to fit the new case. It seems to late to change now--either to add the floppy or to cancel the order and start over with one of the other models that you suggested. I searched for discussions on choosing expandable systems on the Dell forums before I ordered the Dimension 8400, but I missed something there. Yes, there are two power supply rails but 4 SATA connectors on the system board. Perplexing is it not, especially as they seem to be really close to each other. Because of that I need at a minimum a power cable extension adapter so that power will reach the SATA in the front bay. I have searched for a simple cable extension adapter. There does seem to be a product (only one that I can find) that provides a Y-split to take the a rail to 2 connectors (if the power supply can handle it). A source for that one is here:

http://www.globalcomputer.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1083743&sku=ULT31743

All the other cable adapters I found including the ones from New Egg (I have not searched the Dell store yet) are to interface the molex 4 pin "legacy type" power supply power connectors to one 15 pin SATA power cable connector (a few of these are Ys that provide two 15 pin connectors).

From the power supply information in the Dimension 8400 technical manual (link in thread starter), the 4 pin power connectors do not have a 3.3 volt source. That pin of the SATA drive is fed 5 volts by these other adapters. I did find a web article that confirmed the practice, mentioning that (most ?) SATA drives seemed to be tolerant of the 5 volts. (Refer to the voltage diagram for connectors P6, P8 and P9 vs. P3 and P5 for the Dell Dimension 8400 power supply). It seems a better idea to me to use the 15 pin power rail with Y-split adapter, if the Dell power supply can handle it. Initially, I will just be using 1/2 of the Y--that is not a problem.

Externalizing a SATA drive (taking advantage that the SATA data serial cables can be a meter long) provides a future way to have two SATA hard drive that are externally accessible. I can put one of the Kingwin caddy systems into an external hard drive bay cabinet if I can work out power for it. Initially I only have to have one externally accessible drive so initially going external is not necessary.

These are the unresolved issues:

Is the Y cable adapter I found really 15 pin to 2 X 15 pin, as it seems?
What would the power supply do if a third SATA were added to the rail?
Is it really okay to use the 4 pin to 15 pin SATA adapters, do the drives really not mind?

ejn63 · Answer

I would not consider splitting a single power tap to supply two drives. You could run into spinup problems - drives draw their maximum power at spinup and a split rail might not provide enough to spin both drives.

Many SATA drives come with both MOLEX and SATA-edge power connectors - though the ones Dell uses usually have only SATA rails, most of the WD drives I've seen sold bare or in kits have both connectors. So have many Maxtor drives (but I wouldn't consider one from that manufacturer anyway, given its current financial state and reputation for unreliability).

The Molex conectors should work fine and there should be plenty of spare taps to use with them.

Family_Voices · Answer

Your remarks all seem very reasonable. Even though I may have to get it extended to reach, I do have one available SATA power connector though . You understand the issue about people converting the available molex power supply connectors for the Seagate (for instance) SATA drives. From what I have read today, Seagate has about the only native SATA drive models, yet even some of the Seagate SATA drives are native EIDE. Most SATA drives are said to be native EIDE with an internal conversion interface.

There seems to be 3 molex connectors for EIDE drive power on the supply. With one for the floppy (if used) and one for the CD/DVD, that just leaves one. That's enough for my foreseen needs, provided I can also use the second SATA power connector.

There is a Seagate drive I am interested in trying out. I would have ordered it today except that I ran into the power cable issues. I realized just now that I do not know what type computer side power rail the Kingwin caddy system that I ordered yesterday is going to have. As it is not a bare OEM product, it may come with cables.

I saw a cable today that combines SATA signal and power into a unified drive side connector. That would be ideal for hooking up an external drive. On the internal computer end, the cable splits into a 6 inch signal only cable with connector for the system board and a molex power connector on a separate 6 inch power feed. That is only a useful thing if it is okay to convert molex feeds to SATA connector feeds though. I need to learn more about that issue.

I know much more about these matters (or think I do) then I did when I started writing the thread starting post. Your have been helpful. I appreciate your remarks.

Family_Voices · Answer

After a search of the Seagate site (using Google) I have concluded that Seagate does not have a problem with these L4 to SATA 15 pin power adapters--even though they do not seem to explain why they do not. It is more like, "you usually use one of these adapters" for power. If Seagate does not have a problem, then I should stop worrying: I just ordered a drive, 2 cables and 2 adapters.

I sent an email to Seagate's technical help service asking for an explanation why the absence of 3.3V does not matter.

SATA uses very flexible cables and they can be up to 1 meter long (by the SATA spec). Some folks are using it as an external bus (there are expansion card plates sold that provide a proper looking back connection for an external "SATA" port. With perhaps 1 foot of internal cable, one is limited to about a 2' external cable with them, though.) The simpler way is to thread the cable through an open PCI expansion slot. A meter of cable is enough to set a box beside or on top of the PC case.

How can a serial interface be faster then a parallel interface, when in serial there is a single data stream? As someone wrote, the single stream is sent really fast!

It seems that the full speed of the SATA standard is so fast that no one is using its full capability yet (although there are 10,000 rpm drives offered now). Seagate says that one may expect about a 5% data throughput increase with SATA over PATA. Advantages accrue when one uses native command instructions from the system through to the drive--not common, yet. That leaves much of the present excitement over SATA being its cabling. The EIDE ribbon cable is really awkward to connect up and it seriously blocks the air flow in a computer. I think that the maximum allowed EIDE cable length is much less as well.

When they are available, "SATA" CD/DVDs will remove yet another EIDE "cable" from the PC. Maybe I will learn to live without the floppy drive I did not order. That saved an EIDE cable as well. Thank you Dell for giving us 4 SATA ports on the system board. So far as I know, more SATA interfaces are available by way of an add-on PCI card if I ever need them.

My computer will be here on Monday. I ordered it on-line Wednesday evening. I choose the least expensive shipping option: 3 to 5 day UPS ground. Five days from order to delivery for something that was built to order. This morning (Saturday) the computer was only 25 minutes away from me. Had there been a way to pick it up, I would have had it in less then 3 days. Wow! Not to say that I could not have gotten it at Dell's factory dock possibly 1 1/2 days after I placed the order. (Not really. I am sure it is important to Dell that they do not have to hand these boxes into customers pickup trucks.)

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Questions Adding SATA Hard Drives to Dimension 8400

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